Kimbrel?

[Outlander]

It was a small blurb but Murray indicates his sources at the Brewers are pessimistic a deal can be reached.

[Brew crew 92]

It was a small blurb but Murray indicates his sources at the Brewers are pessimistic a deal can be reached.

 

That’s good enough for me, Rosenthal and Heyman not a peep should a dampened earlier reports anyhow. Thinking with the heart instead of the brain. I just hope the fact he’s not a member of our bullpen is because of LONG TERM demands or brewers rejecting medicals and not because they didn’t want to offer a high enough pillow deal because they don’t want to increase their payroll. We have plenty of $ to spend but Mark A and investors probably would like 30+ mil profit again.

[TURBO]

It was a small blurb but Murray indicates his sources at the Brewers are pessimistic a deal can be reached.

 

That’s good enough for me, Rosenthal and Heyman not a peep should a dampened earlier reports anyhow. Thinking with the heart instead of the brain. I just hope the fact he’s not a member of our bullpen is because of LONG TERM demands or brewers rejecting medicals and not because they didn’t want to offer a high enough pillow deal because they don’t want to increase their payroll. We have plenty of $ to spend but Mark A and investors probably would like 30+ mil profit again.

 

Why do you keep harping on the comment that we have plenty of money to spend, etc...

 

You just don't know.

 

Stop speaking like you have inside information when clearly, you do not.

 

You have made this comment, or one like it many times.

[Brew crew 92]

It was a small blurb but Murray indicates his sources at the Brewers are pessimistic a deal can be reached.

 

That’s good enough for me, Rosenthal and Heyman not a peep should a dampened earlier reports anyhow. Thinking with the heart instead of the brain. I just hope the fact he’s not a member of our bullpen is because of LONG TERM demands or brewers rejecting medicals and not because they didn’t want to offer a high enough pillow deal because they don’t want to increase their payroll. We have plenty of $ to spend but Mark A and investors probably would like 30+ mil profit again.

 

Why do you keep harping on the comment that we have plenty of money to spend, etc...

 

You just don't know.

 

Stop speaking like you have inside information when clearly, you do not.

 

You have made this comment, or one like it many times.

 

But I do know. It’s explained why in spending tread. Just because we have $ to invest in payroll doesn’t mean we will. Although the $ won’t be an issue at the deadline so that’s positive.

[adambr2]

Whether or not we have or don't have the money really isn't the point. Is Mark Attanasio financially capable of signing Craig Kimbrel to a 6 year, 100M dollar deal today? Could he do that without going bankrupt?

 

Yes, obviously he could. But regardless of whether he can or can't, it's a finite supply of capital, not an endless one, and in both long and short-term views of the franchise, every investment made now is less that can be made at another time.

 

So each decision has to be viewed as an investment, and whether the investment is worth the price, weighing both the short and long-term. Kimbrel guarantees us nothing. In the view of David Stearns, who is much better at this than any of us, that investment isn't worth the price, at least not at this very moment.

 

That's good enough for me.

[homer]

 

But I do know. It’s explained why in spending tread. Just because we have $ to invest in payroll doesn’t mean we will. Although the $ won’t be an issue at the deadline so that’s positive.

 

No, you don't know. You don't work for the Brewers. Those are the only people that know. You have a theory based on the Forbes and Fangraph numbers.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Whether or not we have or don't have the money really isn't the point. Is Mark Attanasio financially capable of signing Craig Kimbrel to a 6 year, 100M dollar deal today? Could he do that without going bankrupt?

 

Yes, obviously he could. But regardless of whether he can or can't, it's a finite supply of capital, not an endless one, and in both long and short-term views of the franchise, every investment made now is less that can be made at another time.

 

So each decision has to be viewed as an investment, and whether the investment is worth the price, weighing both the short and long-term. Kimbrel guarantees us nothing. In the view of David Stearns, who is much better at this than any of us, that investment isn't worth the price, at least not at this very moment.

 

That's good enough for me.

 

Yup, just because the money may be there, it doesn't mean they should go out and hand a $100 million deal to a reliever. Kimbrel has been terrific for the majority of his career, but last year was arguably his worst in MLB. Still good by typical reliever standards, but not by his. It is quite possible that there is some sort of analytic that points to more regression from him, which would make any sort of long-term agreement for the terms he's looking for an albatross-type contract that could cripple the team in the future. I'm sure Stearns has a set value assigned, and frankly I'm very happy that he's seemingly stuck to it. Just because someone happens to be a big name doesn't mean that they are the right fit for the team at the given moment.

[JohnBriggs12]

Bottom line is that if they don't sign Kimbrel and Knebel is out for the year, they have a huge hole in what was an area of strength last year. Given that I'm left to wonder if they'll stay committed to keeping both Woodruff and Burnes in the rotation. I don't have faith in Albers, Williams, Barnes etc as reliable late inning relievers. Remember it's not just Knebel and Jeffress who are gone. Soria got a lot of huge outs last year too. Having moments or some stretches of quality is fine but rolling the dice on these guys in a division as competitive as this one might cost them dearly.

[Brew crew 92]

 

But I do know. It’s explained why in spending tread. Just because we have $ to invest in payroll doesn’t mean we will. Although the $ won’t be an issue at the deadline so that’s positive.

 

No, you don't know. You don't work for the Brewers. Those are the only people that know. You have a theory based on the Forbes and Fangraph numbers.

 

More than theory I would argue, and since I’m not Rick S or Mark A or DS or an employee of their CPA firm your technically correct in saying I don’t know. More than a little rudimentary research with Forbes and fan graphs, but with just those two sites alone even a dummy like me can GUESSTIMATE more accurately than someone who just believes the “party line” that still talks as if the brewers are FINANCIALLY a small market team CURRENTLY in regards to revenue. All I’ve been saying is they could spend more without loss, not that they would. Why would they even get into serious discussion with Kimbrel knowing they need more $ at the deadline, if we’re already stretched as thin as some have said.

[And That]

[Brew crew 92]

Bottom line is that if they don't sign Kimbrel and Knebel is out for the year, they have a huge hole in what was an area of strength last year. Given that I'm left to wonder if they'll stay committed to keeping both Woodruff and Burnes in the rotation. I don't have faith in Albers, Williams, Barnes etc as reliable late inning relievers. Remember it's not just Knebel and Jeffress who are gone. Soria got a lot of huge outs last year too. Having moments or some stretches of quality is fine but rolling the dice on these guys in a division as competitive as this one might cost them dearly.

 

+1

Just hoping early on starters and offense can overcome.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Bottom line is that if they don't sign Kimbrel and Knebel is out for the year, they have a huge hole in what was an area of strength last year. Given that I'm left to wonder if they'll stay committed to keeping both Woodruff and Burnes in the rotation. I don't have faith in Albers, Williams, Barnes etc as reliable late inning relievers. Remember it's not just Knebel and Jeffress who are gone. Soria got a lot of huge outs last year too. Having moments or some stretches of quality is fine but rolling the dice on these guys in a division as competitive as this one might cost them dearly.

 

+1

Just hoping early on starters and offense can overcome.

 

Or perhaps we could try going into the season with faith that our remaining healthy pen arms can pick up the slack, instead of determining that the sky has already fallen if we don't go out and sign a guy with plenty of red flags of his own.

[Brew crew 92]

Bottom line is that if they don't sign Kimbrel and Knebel is out for the year, they have a huge hole in what was an area of strength last year. Given that I'm left to wonder if they'll stay committed to keeping both Woodruff and Burnes in the rotation. I don't have faith in Albers, Williams, Barnes etc as reliable late inning relievers. Remember it's not just Knebel and Jeffress who are gone. Soria got a lot of huge outs last year too. Having moments or some stretches of quality is fine but rolling the dice on these guys in a division as competitive as this one might cost them dearly.

 

+1

Just hoping early on starters and offense can overcome.

 

Or perhaps we could try going into the season with faith that our remaining healthy pen arms can pick up the slack, instead of determining that the sky has already fallen if we don't go out and sign a guy with plenty of red flags of his own.

 

Faith no.....Hope yes

[adambr2]

Tomorrow we'll find out if Knebel is going to get TJ surgery or go the rehab route.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Tomorrow we'll find out if Knebel is going to get TJ surgery or go the rehab route.

 

Not a big fan of the rehab route. Those situations seem to go the way of missing the whole year, ending up having the surgery in the offseason, then missing the next year too. If he's got damage, I'd rather he just get it done, miss the year, then come back next year. Granted, it isn't an easy surgery to recover from, but the idea of rehabbing a UCL tear just seems like you are prolonging the inevitable to me.

 

Either way, whether we sign Kimbrel or not (and it's looking like it isn't going to happen), I'm ready for this thread to go the way of the dodo.

[Lathund]

I mean he has had UCL damage for 4 seasons and pitched just fine. Masahiro Tanaka has had it for 5. It's very much on a case-by-case basis, "damage" can mean many different things. I'll happilly let the professionals decide on the best course and trust in them.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I mean he has had UCL damage for 4 seasons and pitched just fine. Masahiro Tanaka has had it for 5. It's very much on a case-by-case basis, "damage" can mean many different things. I'll happilly let the professionals decide on the best course and trust in them.

 

He has pitched just fine, but it certainly sounds like in this case that the damage has been elevated. You're right though ... whatever is decided on by the pros will be the best course of action, and we'll have to deal with whatever is decided. This pen proved last year that it can function effectively without Knebel, and they are likely going to have to do it again, at least for awhile.

[HiAndTight]

I mean he has had UCL damage for 4 seasons and pitched just fine. Masahiro Tanaka has had it for 5. It's very much on a case-by-case basis, "damage" can mean many different things. I'll happilly let the professionals decide on the best course and trust in them.

 

I keep going back to this like I kept going back to, "it wasn't the part of the shoulder that you normally have wear and tear with so Nelson's recovery should be easier," type of optimistic thinking.

 

The two aren't the same, but you're right, Knebel could be fine and if he's back, Jeffress certainly could be and the Brewers are back on schedule...(sorta, they're gonna be hurting while they go through a hellacious first half).

 

But partially torn UCL that has the normally tight lipped Brewers "concerned" doesn't seem encouraging to me.

 

Worst case scenario is they give him the plasma rich plalet injections and they try to have it recover on it's own and wait 3 months and then he's likely done through 2021. Best case, same thing he's dealt with and a little rest and he'll be back throwing 99 up in the zone and breaking off that nasty 11/5curve.

[brewmann04]

I think we all have to wait till the doctors and Cory make that decision on course of action, but don't see him back on the mound for a while.

as far as Krimbrel goes as long as he has not signed with another team there is still hope he be a Brewer.

[HiAndTight]

 

But I do know. It’s explained why in spending tread. Just because we have $ to invest in payroll doesn’t mean we will. Although the $ won’t be an issue at the deadline so that’s positive.

 

No, you don't know. You don't work for the Brewers. Those are the only people that know. You have a theory based on the Forbes and Fangraph numbers.

 

More than theory I would argue, and since I’m not Rick S or Mark A or DS or an employee of their CPA firm your technically correct in saying I don’t know. More than a little rudimentary research with Forbes and fan graphs, but with just those two sites alone even a dummy like me can GUESSTIMATE more accurately than someone who just believes the “party line” that still talks as if the brewers are FINANCIALLY a small market team CURRENTLY in regards to revenue. All I’ve been saying is they could spend more without loss, not that they would. Why would they even get into serious discussion with Kimbrel knowing they need more $ at the deadline, if we’re already stretched as thin as some have said.

 

 

The thing is, there hasn't been a party line other than Mark A ALWAYS saying that he'd dip into his pocket if they needed to in order to add a player. They've done that already this year and I feel like people are kinda counting the money they saved in payroll in the years they had a very low one when in fact they were investing heavily into other area's of the organization, BUT, the party line is the fans of the Brewers on here talking.

 

We don't know(and no offense, but you don't really know better than any of us what the Brewers can spend and we also have to remember Mark A does not own 100 pct of the team, so he at least has to take into consideration the minority owners when talking about not making money for the year or losing money).

 

But just as a fan, I want Kimbrel. I'm all in on Kimbrel. I am of the belief that the Brewers CAN spend more money. But I sure as hell don't like the idea of signing Kimbrel for more than 12-14 million and we KNOW he's gonna earn more than that, and that's probably not even in the same hemisphere as what he's asking for. Would you REALLY want him for 3 years and 66 million for example?

 

I'm with you on believing they can spend a little more than most on here(probably less than you believe however) but 20 million per is going to eliminate us from getting in on a guy like Cole next year in the event that the Brewers get crazy with Braun coming off and love him enough to pay for an ace(really, what's not to love). Or even just guys like Travis Shaw, Jesus Aguilar, the everyday guys that make this team go.

 

If I find out that the Brewers balked at 1 year and 20 million for example, even throw in a mutual option with a 2million buyout, I'd be dissappointed. Not sure I'd really be upset if they balked at that figure over multiple years, EVEN if they could do that financially, have a little room left over to add guys at the deadline. It's just bleeding too much into the future at that point, and this team...as much as I love them, things go wrong. Maybe they fall off this year and the three young rookie struggle every 5 days, or maybe Jesus hits .240, or Braun has bad luck and Yelich has average luck and Grandal is pressing?

 

 

 

Long way of saying, get Kimbrel if it's feasible to do so for now without hurting the teams ability to retain players or acquire players the next couple years. Also, just to play Devils Advocate a bit more, Kimbrel was arguably more unsteady than Jeffress last year in the post-season and is coming off his worst year.

 

You're not guaranteeing you're getting a 1.20 ERA, .85 Whip, 15K/9 reliever, just that you're paying for that.

[Lathund]

I mean he has had UCL damage for 4 seasons and pitched just fine. Masahiro Tanaka has had it for 5. It's very much on a case-by-case basis, "damage" can mean many different things. I'll happilly let the professionals decide on the best course and trust in them.

 

I keep going back to this like I kept going back to, "it wasn't the part of the shoulder that you normally have wear and tear with so Nelson's recovery should be easier," type of optimistic thinking.

 

The two aren't the same, but you're right, Knebel could be fine and if he's back, Jeffress certainly could be and the Brewers are back on schedule...(sorta, they're gonna be hurting while they go through a hellacious first half).

 

But partially torn UCL that has the normally tight lipped Brewers "concerned" doesn't seem encouraging to me.

 

Worst case scenario is they give him the plasma rich plalet injections and they try to have it recover on it's own and wait 3 months and then he's likely done through 2021. Best case, same thing he's dealt with and a little rest and he'll be back throwing 99 up in the zone and breaking off that nasty 11/5curve.

 

Oh I'm counting on him being out all year, I have since they first mentioned it. It was more in relation to the idea that rehab never works, or that all UCL damage requires surgery. In some cases it's the better route to take. It's just that when it doesn't and surgery is required anyway you remember it so well since it's such a long rehab time.

[Brew crew 92]

I mean he has had UCL damage for 4 seasons and pitched just fine. Masahiro Tanaka has had it for 5. It's very much on a case-by-case basis, "damage" can mean many different things. I'll happilly let the professionals decide on the best course and trust in them.

 

I keep going back to this like I kept going back to, "it wasn't the part of the shoulder that you normally have wear and tear with so Nelson's recovery should be easier," type of optimistic thinking.

 

The two aren't the same, but you're right, Knebel could be fine and if he's back, Jeffress certainly could be and the Brewers are back on schedule...(sorta, they're gonna be hurting while they go through a hellacious first half).

 

But partially torn UCL that has the normally tight lipped Brewers "concerned" doesn't seem encouraging to me.

 

Worst case scenario is they give him the plasma rich plalet injections and they try to have it recover on it's own and wait 3 months and then he's likely done through 2021. Best case, same thing he's dealt with and a little rest and he'll be back throwing 99 up in the zone and breaking off that nasty 11/5curve.

 

Oh I'm counting on him being out all year, I have since they first mentioned it. It was more in relation to the idea that rehab never works, or that all UCL damage requires surgery. In some cases it's the better route to take. It's just that when it doesn't and surgery is required anyway you remember it so well since it's such a long rehab time.

 

You Gotta play the percentages, just ask Taylor Williams who had the smallest of tears or fraying. Timing matters in this case, get the surgery done now and he’ll be ready to help us win our second consecutive series after the All-Star break.

[HiAndTight]

 

You Gotta play the percentages, just ask Taylor Williams who had the smallest of tears or fraying. Timing matters in this case, get the surgery done now and he’ll be ready to help us win our second consecutive series after the All-Star break.

 

 

Well, I'm not feeling optimistic as a Brewers fan, but I sure wouldn't play Doctor and tell him to get a major surgery done if he doesn't need it because of what Taylor Williams dealt with years ago.

 

That's an ENORMOUS undertaking, the rehab. Plus, it's literally life threatening. People die just going under. After now 15 surgeries, I'd say he should see if he actually needs it or if he can recover like he did in Texas before telling them to build me a new ligament throw with.

 

Even if I do think it'll end up there....I mean...Im about 8 years and a whole patients history shy of being qualified to diagnose him.

[Brew crew 92]

 

You Gotta play the percentages, just ask Taylor Williams who had the smallest of tears or fraying. Timing matters in this case, get the surgery done now and he’ll be ready to help us win our second consecutive series after the All-Star break.

 

 

Well, I'm not feeling optimistic as a Brewers fan, but I sure wouldn't play Doctor and tell him to get a major surgery done if he doesn't need it because of what Taylor Williams dealt with years ago.

 

That's an ENORMOUS undertaking, the rehab. Plus, it's literally life threatening. People di to build me a new ligament throw with.

 

Even if I do think it'll end up there....I mean...Im about 8 years and a whole patients history shy of being qualified to diagnose him.

 

We should know soon what knebel decides to do. Regardless I’m sure stearns planning on the year with out him. He must have really good reports on jeffress ‘s velo and maybe that’s why no upgrade.

[Brew crew 92]

Oh my goodness, am I still one the few that thinks we need Kimbrel OR trade now. I mean protect Haders arm, sign Kimbrel tonight or at worst overpay slightly for an experienced closer in trade. How can you go from best closer to NO closer overnight. Can’t wait. Albers? Barnes? Wilson? Williams? Goodness gracious No. Stearns get er done.