Kimbrel?

[tmwiese55]

I've thought the whole time Cubs make the most sense from a need perspective. However, they're management the whole time has been saying they're staying under the tax. Still, wouldn't surprise me if they cave.

[Brew crew 92]

 

Stearns should’ve kept his mouth shut on this one, if what you say is correct. This team needs a closer that can be counted on, and I’m pretty confident in saying we’re not gonna get that with the waiver wire pick up, why take a chance on this being our Achilles’ heel?

 

 

Stearns has the right to make an incredibly vague statement that could mean almost anything...

 

needs a closer that can be counted on - No they don't. They need quality pitchers that can get outs no matter what the situation. I really thought baseball was going to evolve beyond the "set closer in the 9th" mentality. Dishing out crazy sums of money for guys deemed to be a "closer" has probably led to more bad contracts in baseball than any other position.

 

They NEED a pitcher who close the game out in the 9th inning that they can count on, sorely lacking in that department. Hader Albers not good enough.

[homer]

I've thought the whole time Cubs make the most sense from a need perspective. However, they're management the whole time has been saying they're staying under the tax. Still, wouldn't surprise me if they cave.

 

They might sing a different tune if Strop blows his first couple of chances.

[homer]

Hader could totally close if they asked him too. Problem is then you lose him in the high leverage situations in the 6th, 7th, 8th.

[brewmann04]

I been in the sign Kimbrel camp but who know what he asking for price and years .

[Brew crew 92]

He'll be a Cub.

 

Cubs arguably make more sense than the Brewers, since Maddon is that dinosaur-type manager that pigeonholes his relievers into concrete spots. My guess is still Braves, though.

 

Brewers have tons more money to spend than the cubs, that felt great saying that, because it’s true, Cubs already over tax, there owner said NO more. They not gonna blast up over 235, forget the cubs. Crew has 80 mil room under cap so we’re safe there.

[HiAndTight]

 

Stearns should’ve kept his mouth shut on this one, if what you say is correct. This team needs a closer that can be counted on, and I’m pretty confident in saying we’re not gonna get that with the waiver wire pick up, why take a chance on this being our Achilles’ heel?

 

 

Stearns has the right to make an incredibly vague statement that could mean almost anything...

 

needs a closer that can be counted on - No they don't. They need quality pitchers that can get outs no matter what the situation. I really thought baseball was going to evolve beyond the "set closer in the 9th" mentality. Dishing out crazy sums of money for guys deemed to be a "closer" has probably led to more bad contracts in baseball than any other position.

 

 

Yes they do. Just because at one time the closer position was OVER-valued doesn't mean that it's not still important to have someone who can come in and pitch in high leverage situations(end of the game is high leverage) and close out a game.

 

We've seen time and time again that some pitchers just crumble under that pressure. They start aiming, they miss the zone. You DO need a closer. You don't need your best pitcher to be your closer or we'd be talking about Hader closing.

 

But not all outs are the same. The last 3 are harder to get than the other three. It is possible for the closer position to be over-valued and there still to be a need for a team to have a reliable closer at the same time.

 

And I think there have been quite a few more bad contracts given out to starting pitchers who've hardly ever pitched than the closer position.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I been in the sign Kimbrel camp but who know what he asking for price and years .

 

I was as well, but I think if it was going to happen, it would have by now. I think that ship has sailed. If I'm wrong, great. If not, oh well.

[HiAndTight]

Hader could totally close if they asked him too. Problem is then you lose him in the high leverage situations in the 6th, 7th, 8th.

 

 

Exactly. Taylor Williams could be that guy. Think of some of the best closers we've had in the last decade. The Turnbow, Axford types. They weren't guys you were really counting on when they burst onto the scene. Williams has as good of stuff as just about anyone.

 

And you can't afford to take Hader out of the role he's in now.

 

What hurts the most about losing both of those guys is that you could count on one of them to come in and put out a fire earlier in a game....in the 5th or 6th inning and then the other was still there to close after Hader got you 4-5-6 outs.

[HiAndTight]

That said, there are teams with really good relievers who are young and talented we could look at.

 

The Giants have been mentioned...there are likely other teams that have talented young arms who won't compete this year and would rather trade for them now if they can get a big talent into their system.

 

I like the Corey Ray for a young, really high upside reliever and a really good veteran type like the Giants trade proposal.

 

I think this is probably way more spot on than any of this Kimbrel talk. Will Smith makes a ton of sense.

 

 

Agreed, but if you're giving up Ray, you'd better be getting back more than one year of control. Get Smith, and that flame throwing young guy who struck out over 10 per 9 IP last year and can crank it up to 100 and you control for 5 years and maybe you've rebuilt your BP.

 

I guess it depends on what the Brewers think of Ray. I think in Brinson they saw a guy who was extremely talented but was going to take a while to develop(I've said I think it'll take 1000-1200 PA's before he starts to produce). Are they more confident about Ray?

 

And how valuable is he compared to two potentially dominant relievers that puts this BP back on solid footing not just this year, but the next few AND keeps you from having to shell out 20 million for a year of Craig Kimbrel.

[Brew crew 92]

That said, there are teams with really good relievers who are young and talented we could look at.

 

The Giants have been mentioned...there are likely other teams that have talented young arms who won't compete this year and would rather trade for them now if they can get a big talent into their system.

 

I like the Corey Ray for a young, really high upside reliever and a really good veteran type like the Giants trade proposal.

 

I think this is probably way more spot on than any of this Kimbrel talk. Will Smith makes a ton of sense.

 

 

Agreed, but if you're giving up Ray, you'd better be getting back more than one year of control. Get Smith, and that flame throwing young guy who struck out over 10 per 9 IP last year and can crank it up to 100 and you control for 5 years and maybe you've rebuilt your BP.

 

I guess it depends on what the Brewers think of Ray. I think in Brinson they saw a guy who was extremely talented but was going to take a while to develop(I've said I think it'll take 1000-1200 PA's before he starts to produce). Are they more confident about Ray?

 

And how valuable is he compared to two potentially dominant relievers that puts this BP back on solid footing not just this year, but the next few AND keeps you from having to shell out 20 million for a year of Craig Kimbrel.

 

You do that trade all day long. I think Stearns has groomed Ray for trade anyhow, cause Taylor better in stearns mind. No brainer, then also go after Kimbrel to build a superpen, virtually assuring yourself of winning the pennant.

[jonescm128]

Wow. You guys have really taken a big leap from a throw-away statement by a GM. Of course they could bring in someone from outside now that all the final roster cuts are being made. They could still sign Kimbrel before or after the season starts, but he wouldn't be on the 25 immediately anyhow.

 

 

This is the transaction rumors thread. Taking large leaps from throw away statements is what we do here.

[HiAndTight]

 

You do that trade all day long. I think Stearns has groomed Ray for trade anyhow, cause Taylor better in stearns mind. No brainer, then also go after Kimbrel to build a superpen, virtually assuring yourself of winning the pennant.

 

No,I disagree. Ifyou get two relivers from the Giants with great stuff who both can get more than 10 K's per 9 IP, you don't go out and waste money on Kimbrel.

 

Kimbrel is not a good option. We don't want to have to sign Kimbrel. If Knebel came back and they said his elbow was the same as it's been and he's going to resume throwing in 2 weeks, I'd be off of Kimbrel. I'm only on Kimbrel because I don't know that another team is going to throw in the towel before the season even begins and trade us an elite BP arm.

 

If the plan was to build a super-pen, we'd have signed 2-3 guys who were as good or better last year than Kimbrel for what Kimbrel is asking for. I just want to get back to having a good and estasblished pen. Will Smith and Moronta do that for us and in Moronta they get a guy for 5 years.

 

It's not my money, but how it's spent does impact the team I root for. If you're going to sign Kimbrel now just because, even after replacing what you lose in Knebel and Jeffreess, I'd just wait, hold onto that money and take a look at next years FA class and target a certain Astro from UCLA.

 

 

As for Ray, I doubt Stearns has been grooming him to trade him(I don't even know how you'd do that. I just think he's better, is more highly respected and would appeal to the Giants more, and if you're going to trade your closer and your young SU before the season starts, it is an easier sell to your fanbase that you're getting back a Team USA star, a former top 10 pick, and a guy coming off a big season not far removed from being a top 50 prospect.

[Brew crew 92]

 

You do that trade all day long. I think Stearns has groomed Ray for trade anyhow, cause Taylor better in stearns mind. No brainer, then also go after Kimbrel to build a superpen, virtually assuring yourself of winning the pennant.

 

No,I disagree. Ifyou get two relivers from the Giants with great stuff who both can get more than 10 K's per 9 IP, you don't go out and waste money on Kimbrel.

 

Kimbrel is not a good option. We don't want to have to sign Kimbrel. If Knebel came back and they said his elbow was the same as it's been and he's going to resume throwing in 2 weeks, I'd be off of Kimbrel. I'm only on Kimbrel because I don't know that another team is going to throw in the towel before the season even begins and trade us an elite BP arm.

 

If the plan was to build a super-pen, we'd have signed 2-3 guys who were as good or better last year than Kimbrel for what Kimbrel is asking for. I just want to get back to having a good and estasblished pen. Will Smith and Moronta do that for us and in Moronta they get a guy for 5 years.

 

It's not my money, but how it's spent does impact the team I root for. If you're going to sign Kimbrel now just because, even after replacing what you lose in Knebel and Jeffreess, I'd just wait, hold onto that money and take a look at next years FA class and target a certain Astro from UCLA.

 

 

As for Ray, I doubt Stearns has been grooming him to trade him(I don't even know how you'd do that. I just think he's better, is more highly respected and would appeal to the Giants more, and if you're going to trade your closer and your young SU before the season starts, it is an easier sell to your fanbase that you're getting back a Team USA star, a former top 10 pick, and a guy coming off a big season not far removed from being a top 50 prospect.

 

What the heck is wrong with a high pillow deal? Not gonna make ANY difference $ wise moving forward. We have 30+ mil easily that can be invested THIS year if Mark WANTS to. If he wants multiple years move on then. Grooming silly figure of speech, I think you get the jist of what I’m saying.

[Warning Track Power]

Is the fact that Kimbrel hasn't been signed any indication of Corey Knebel's outlook? Hopefully, the Brewers have received relative good news as it relates to Knebel's ability to pitch through the partial tear (given he has done it the past 4 years).

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Is the fact that Kimbrel hasn't been signed any indication of Corey Knebel's outlook? Hopefully, the Brewers have received relative good news as it relates to Knebel's ability to pitch through the partial tear (given he has done it the past 4 years).

 

Hopefully that's the case, but in reality it could be a bunch of factors. Perhaps Kimbrel's health isn't where it should be? Perhaps he's still asking for too much $$$ or too many years. Perhaps the Brewers met with him and determined he wouldn't be a fit. The fit is certainly there on paper, but there are so many variables that we don't know.

[Warning Track Power]

Is the fact that Kimbrel hasn't been signed any indication of Corey Knebel's outlook? Hopefully, the Brewers have received relative good news as it relates to Knebel's ability to pitch through the partial tear (given he has done it the past 4 years).

 

Hopefully that's the case, but in reality it could be a bunch of factors. Perhaps Kimbrel's health isn't where it should be? Perhaps he's still asking for too much $$$ or too many years. Perhaps the Brewers met with him and determined he wouldn't be a fit. The fit is certainly there on paper, but there are so many variables that we don't know.

Totally agree. Perhaps the oddest thing about the entire Kimbrel situation was that McCalvy wrote the article with quotes from Ryan Braun and Mike Moustakas about the Brewers potentially adding Kimbrel. Definitely seemed like a foregone conclusion they would be adding him given Milwaukee writers' propensity to not report on potential FA acquisitions until they are actually signed, sealed and delivered.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Is the fact that Kimbrel hasn't been signed any indication of Corey Knebel's outlook? Hopefully, the Brewers have received relative good news as it relates to Knebel's ability to pitch through the partial tear (given he has done it the past 4 years).

 

Hopefully that's the case, but in reality it could be a bunch of factors. Perhaps Kimbrel's health isn't where it should be? Perhaps he's still asking for too much $$$ or too many years. Perhaps the Brewers met with him and determined he wouldn't be a fit. The fit is certainly there on paper, but there are so many variables that we don't know.

Totally agree. Perhaps the oddest thing about the entire Kimbrel situation was that McCalvy wrote the article with quotes from Ryan Braun and Mike Moustakas about the Brewers potentially adding Kimbrel. Definitely seemed like a foregone conclusion they would be adding him given Milwaukee writers' propensity to not report on potential FA acquisitions until they are actually signed, sealed and delivered.

 

Yep ... that makes me think they either found something in his medicals, or he asked for more money/years after Knebel's injury came out, and Stearns told him to pound sand. There was certainly a time last week, though, where it appeared it was a foregone conclusion.

[JohnBriggs12]

Hader could totally close if they asked him too. Problem is then you lose him in the high leverage situations in the 6th, 7th, 8th.

 

 

Exactly. Taylor Williams could be that guy. Think of some of the best closers we've had in the last decade. The Turnbow, Axford types. They weren't guys you were really counting on when they burst onto the scene. Williams has as good of stuff as just about anyone.

 

And you can't afford to take Hader out of the role he's in now.

 

What hurts the most about losing both of those guys is that you could count on one of them to come in and put out a fire earlier in a game....in the 5th or 6th inning and then the other was still there to close after Hader got you 4-5-6 outs.

 

Taylor Williams has given no indication he's earned a high leverage late inning slot. He's got good but not great stuff by today's standards and his command wasn't good enough to stay in the big leagues much less handle the 7th or 8th innings. A -0.2 Career WAR doesn't get it done, and neither does 4.2 BB per 9 innings.

[FVBrewerFan]

Taylor Williams has given no indication he's earned a high leverage late inning slot. He's got good but not great stuff by today's standards and his command wasn't good enough to stay in the big leagues much less handle the 7th or 8th innings. A -0.2 Career WAR doesn't get it done, and neither does 4.2 BB per 9 innings.

 

I generally agree. However, he did have a really good spring. Could mean nothing, could be he figured out a way to get LH hitters out. I didn't see him pitch at all, so no idea. While I certainly wouldn't count on him being a late inning guy, it is possible. We can say he's never been good enough to take on that role, which is true until it isn't. Plenty of pitchers scattered across MLB past and present were able to put it all together, even for one season.

[Brew crew 92]

Hader could totally close if they asked him too. Problem is then you lose him in the high leverage situations in the 6th, 7th, 8th.

 

 

Exactly. Taylor Williams could be that guy. Think of some of the best closers we've had in the last decade. The Turnbow, Axford types. They weren't guys you were really counting on when they burst onto the scene. Williams has as good of stuff as just about anyone.

 

And you can't afford to take Hader out of the role he's in now.

 

What hurts the most about losing both of those guys is that you could count on one of them to come in and put out a fire earlier in a game....in the 5th or 6th inning and then the other was still there to close after Hader got you 4-5-6 outs.

 

Taylor Williams has given no indication he's earned a high leverage late inning slot. He's got good but not great stuff by today's standards and his command wasn't good enough to stay in the big leagues much less handle the 7th or 8th innings. A -0.2 Career WAR doesn't get it done, and neither does 4.2 BB per 9 innings.

 

Agree^^

OD bullpen nothing but ?? Outside of Hader Guerra Anderson claudio

[Warning Track Power]

Robert Murray's article in The Athletic today leads me to believe the Kimbrel thing has come and gone. I am planted firmly on this being extremely unlikely to happen.

[adambr2]

Citing the negative WAR of Taylor Williams, a back end pen option of barely 50 total big league innings, as evidence he can't get it done, is pretty silly. Corey Knebel had a negative WAR 2 out of his first 3 seasons. It's just not that useful of a stat for most relievers.

 

Williams absolutely has the arsenal to develop into a quality closer/setup type reliever. Or he might end up as just a ROOGY type. Whatever happens, it isn't because of his WAR.

[OnTheBlack]

Hader could totally close if they asked him too. Problem is then you lose him in the high leverage situations in the 6th, 7th, 8th.

 

 

Exactly. Taylor Williams could be that guy. Think of some of the best closers we've had in the last decade. The Turnbow, Axford types. They weren't guys you were really counting on when they burst onto the scene. Williams has as good of stuff as just about anyone.

 

And you can't afford to take Hader out of the role he's in now.

 

What hurts the most about losing both of those guys is that you could count on one of them to come in and put out a fire earlier in a game....in the 5th or 6th inning and then the other was still there to close after Hader got you 4-5-6 outs.

Taylor Williams has given no indication he's earned a high leverage late inning slot. He's got good but not great stuff by today's standards and his command wasn't good enough to stay in the big leagues much less handle the 7th or 8th innings. A -0.2 Career WAR doesn't get it done, and neither does 4.2 BB per 9 innings.

 

Nobody has until they do. And if you want to write off Williams, who exactly has given any indication they can handle a high leverage situation in our current pen outside of Hader? Someone's gonna have to do it.

 

And Williams throws in the mid to upper 90's with a slider that can be dominant at times.

 

And you could have said the exact same thing about Axford and Turnbow when they came in and had great seasons for the Brewers(though they walked even more).

 

Williams has roughly 50 innings, last year was his first full year back after missing parts of 3 seasons and he was dominant in the first half.

 

He has a 60 grade on his fastball and a 60 grade on his slider....

 

 

More importantly though, I go back to two points. Who HAS proven they can pitch in high leverage situations in this current pen, and I said pretty clearly, most of the guys who've emerged and had great seasons for us as closers have been guys you wouldn't have counted on going into the season.

 

Either we're not a playoff team and we're going to struggle with the BP or we're going to have to have some guys step up, and Williams has the stuff to do so and he's shown he is capable of being a very effective reliever.

 

Even if he just has the first half he had last year and helps hold down the fort until we can bring in someone else, that'd be good enough for me.

[OnTheBlack]

Robert Murray's article in The Athletic today leads me to believe the Kimbrel thing has come and gone. I am planted firmly on this being extremely unlikely to happen.

 

 

Could you expand a bit? The only thing I've seen is that they've been in negotiations, but I don't subscribe to the Athletic.