Moose is back! [1 yr/$10mm guaranteed; $11mm mutual 2020 option -- post #186]

[cesser000]

Can’t speak to that but wouldn’t doubt it.

Ryan Braun helped keep lines of communication open between Brewers, Mike Moustakas

That article states that Moose's new contract also includes a 2020 team option - don't think I heard that mentioned yet.

 

Basically this is the same contract we gave Gagne 11 years ago. I'm willing to bet that Moose will provide substantially more value than the 46 innings of 5.44 ERA ball that Eric gave us.

[wntrtxn21]

I think Thames makes it over Spangenberg, simply because Spangenberg can be optioned. I don't know if I'd necessarily put Gamel in the "safe bets" space, though. He has an option as well, and could be sent down if they determine they have enough OF coverage with Perez and Thames behind the starters. I think they'll sign a veteran OF to a minor league deal too, as they are pretty thin there in the upper minors. Someone like Austin Jackson or Denard Span makes some sense.

 

Great points, all. Thinking back to last year and the OF glut, I think the team is very comfortable riding with more depth than it will look like they're gonna need. Because stuff happens. Guys get hurt. These things work themselves out sometimes, for sure.

 

I hope Stearns can trade Thames for just about anything in a straight salary dump. Thames has proven he is horrible in the OF and if they keep him it leaves Perez the only backup at 2B-SS-3B. With Shaw able to move to 1B, it leaves Thames as an extremely strikeout prone (40% last year) PH. It's hard to see them using a roster spot for a PH. Gamel is a better over all hitter than Thames and is certainly much, much better on defense. I don't see Gamel going down because of Braun's many days off, especially if they keep Thames.

[Tbadder]

Don’t really like the signing. Doesn’t fit what they need offensively, which is a high OBP guy. He offers no flexibility at a time when short benches are the rule. The one thing I do like is that it takes expectations off Huira and he can get a full year in AAA.

[LouisEly]

Don’t really like the signing. Doesn’t fit what they need offensively, which is a high OBP guy. He offers no flexibility at a time when short benches are the rule. The one thing I do like is that it takes expectations off Huira and he can get a full year in AAA.

Who's available that fits that description and can play 2B or 3B and is willing to sign a one year contract for $10M or less?

 

Before anyone says Dietrich, his lifetime OBP is a marginally better .335 and his defense is horrible. Moose is at least a plus defender.

[wildcat2237]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/02/mike-moustakas-could-play-second-base-for-brewers.html

 

This article questions why we'd pay Moustakas more than the $9 million that Brian Dozier got. Ummmm Moustakas is better......? At least with the bat.

Only if the Dozier of last season is the hitter he'll remain going forward. Instead, it could have simply been a bad season for him.

 

The two seasons prior Dozier posted OPS totals of .886 and .856, with much better OBP numbers and he's only 31, not in his late 30's.

 

Moustakas is actually younger than Dozier. He's only 30.

[Tbadder]

Don’t really like the signing. Doesn’t fit what they need offensively, which is a high OBP guy. He offers no flexibility at a time when short benches are the rule. The one thing I do like is that it takes expectations off Huira and he can get a full year in AAA.

Who's available that fits that description and can play 2B or 3B and is willing to sign a one year contract for $10M or less?

 

Before anyone says Dietrich, his lifetime OBP is a marginally better .335 and his defense is horrible. Moose is at least a plus defender.

 

I’d use Moose’s 10 mil toward Dallas K’s 60 million three year contract. I’d live with Hernan and Corey. I might not have signed Grandal either, using the money for pitching. I didn’t know that Moose could play 2B?

[MrTPlush]

I’m very “whatever” about this move. Moustakas isn’t really someone I’d want in the line up. He isn’t a high OBP contact guy, isn’t speedy to add value there, and isn’t going to be good defensively. Sure he has above average offense, but literally provides little to nothing.

 

Not a big needle mover. Personally I’d like to see someone practice some first base to platoon at first or even take over if Aguilar flops this year.

 

I would guess Attanasio doesn’t care about short term payroll and that is why we see a somewhat strange move. If he gives you the money might as well spend it on someone.

[Devinep]

Don’t really like the signing. Doesn’t fit what they need offensively, which is a high OBP guy. He offers no flexibility at a time when short benches are the rule. The one thing I do like is that it takes expectations off Huira and he can get a full year in AAA.

Who's available that fits that description and can play 2B or 3B and is willing to sign a one year contract for $10M or less?

 

Before anyone says Dietrich, his lifetime OBP is a marginally better .335 and his defense is horrible. Moose is at least a plus defender.

 

It’s definitely no sure thing that moose will be a solid defender at 2B. Shaw wouldn’t be either. So similar hitting and Dietrich at least playable at 2B means that noise isn’t 8 million better

[DuWayne Steurer]

My take is. Thames is a casualty and moved or just waived. Gamel makes his OF ability a non-factor and the combo of Shaw/Moose makes Perez the 5th OF in a pinch. One poster mentioned his PH stats below Mendoza line and that makes sense with his K-issues. I wouldn't save him to play the majority PH role. Perez has got to be the emergency SS right? So I'd probably expect him as a late inning Defensive replacement vs Starter, which honestly is how I see him. Shaw is right in that he should be the starting 3b. It'll be interesting how Moose transitions to 2b. Saying that kinda makes you wonder about the move. I almost have that this ensures depth for an Aguilar decline feeling. Turning to Shaw at 1b more often, and now you have 3b protected, with SS still covered with Perez.

 

Or, they bump Cain to 4th OF...

 

cf: Yelich

lf: Thames

rf: Braun

3b: Shaw

1b: Aguilar

c: Grandal

2b: Moustakas

ss: Arcia

 

Or maybe Arcia sits, and...

 

cf: Cain

1b: Thames

rf: Yelich

lf: Braun

3b: Aguilar

ss: Shaw

c: Grandal

2b: Moustakas

 

No defense... but POWERFUL offense...

 

 

Cain was a 6 WAR player. He also just signed an 80 million dollar contract. He was also just a top 10 MVP finisher. But we're suggesting moving him to a reserve role?

 

Why? To play Thames more?

[clancyphile]

My take is. Thames is a casualty and moved or just waived. Gamel makes his OF ability a non-factor and the combo of Shaw/Moose makes Perez the 5th OF in a pinch. One poster mentioned his PH stats below Mendoza line and that makes sense with his K-issues. I wouldn't save him to play the majority PH role. Perez has got to be the emergency SS right? So I'd probably expect him as a late inning Defensive replacement vs Starter, which honestly is how I see him. Shaw is right in that he should be the starting 3b. It'll be interesting how Moose transitions to 2b. Saying that kinda makes you wonder about the move. I almost have that this ensures depth for an Aguilar decline feeling. Turning to Shaw at 1b more often, and now you have 3b protected, with SS still covered with Perez.

 

Or, they bump Cain to 4th OF...

 

cf: Yelich

lf: Thames

rf: Braun

3b: Shaw

1b: Aguilar

c: Grandal

2b: Moustakas

ss: Arcia

 

Or maybe Arcia sits, and...

 

cf: Cain

1b: Thames

rf: Yelich

lf: Braun

3b: Aguilar

ss: Shaw

c: Grandal

2b: Moustakas

 

No defense... but POWERFUL offense...

 

 

Cain was a 6 WAR player. He also just signed an 80 million dollar contract. He was also just a top 10 MVP finisher. But we're suggesting moving him to a reserve role?

 

Why? To play Thames more?

 

The 2017 version of Thames posted an .877 OPS... Cain in 2018 had an .813 OPS.

 

In the first half of 2018, Thames had a .901 OPS. If he is healthy, he's got a very potent bat, one that is underrated because he's arguably been misplaced in the leadoff or #2 spot of the batting order.

[Devinep]

 

Or, they bump Cain to 4th OF...

 

cf: Yelich

lf: Thames

rf: Braun

3b: Shaw

1b: Aguilar

c: Grandal

2b: Moustakas

ss: Arcia

 

Or maybe Arcia sits, and...

 

cf: Cain

1b: Thames

rf: Yelich

lf: Braun

3b: Aguilar

ss: Shaw

c: Grandal

2b: Moustakas

 

No defense... but POWERFUL offense...

 

 

Cain was a 6 WAR player. He also just signed an 80 million dollar contract. He was also just a top 10 MVP finisher. But we're suggesting moving him to a reserve role?

 

Why? To play Thames more?

 

The 2017 version of Thames posted an .877 OPS... Cain in 2018 had an .813 OPS.

 

In the first half of 2018, Thames had a .901 OPS. If he is healthy, he's got a very potent bat, one that is underrated because he's arguably been misplaced in the leadoff or #2 spot of the batting order.

 

Wow I assumed the Cain to bench thing was a joke. Just wow

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

Or, they bump Cain to 4th OF...

 

cf: Yelich

lf: Thames

rf: Braun

3b: Shaw

1b: Aguilar

c: Grandal

2b: Moustakas

ss: Arcia

 

Or maybe Arcia sits, and...

 

cf: Cain

1b: Thames

rf: Yelich

lf: Braun

3b: Aguilar

ss: Shaw

c: Grandal

2b: Moustakas

 

No defense... but POWERFUL offense...

 

 

Cain was a 6 WAR player. He also just signed an 80 million dollar contract. He was also just a top 10 MVP finisher. But we're suggesting moving him to a reserve role?

 

Why? To play Thames more?

 

The 2017 version of Thames posted an .877 OPS... Cain in 2018 had an .813 OPS.

 

In the first half of 2018, Thames had a .901 OPS. If he is healthy, he's got a very potent bat, one that is underrated because he's arguably been misplaced in the leadoff or #2 spot of the batting order.

 

 

There is a 0% chance that they will move Cain to the bench to play Thames. I guarantee this. I would bet a paycheck on this. Thames is a sub-par defender, and a low contact hitter. I know you love these huge bopper lineups, but the Brewers are not moving Cain to the bench. It's just not gonna happen....

[clancyphile]

The 2017 version of Thames posted an .877 OPS... Cain in 2018 had an .813 OPS.

 

In the first half of 2018, Thames had a .901 OPS. If he is healthy, he's got a very potent bat, one that is underrated because he's arguably been misplaced in the leadoff or #2 spot of the batting order.

 

 

There is a 0% chance that they will move Cain to the bench to play Thames. I guarantee this. I would bet a paycheck on this. Thames is a sub-par defender, and a low contact hitter. I know you love these huge bopper lineups, but the Brewers are not moving Cain to the bench. It's just not gonna happen....

 

Huge power lineups are fun - and it's not even my first choice... but it's nice to know those lineups can be built. I recalled that one time where the Cardinals were using McGwire in the top of the first inning at a number of positions a while back... just to get his bat in for a plate appearance early on.

 

The Brewers have a very deep team this year. That could be an option this year... you never know. Racking up a big top fo the first could set a tone for an entire series.

[markedman5]

Crazy talk........Cain is the center fielder and will bat leadoff or 2nd. He had an obp of about 400 last season.

 

Thames is a butcher in the outfield

[NYChez]

The Moose signing means the Brewers will likely have vastly improved offensive production from the 7 and 8 spots in the order. I hope it's safe to assume Arcia will hit better than he did in the 2018 regular seaon.

[clancyphile]

The Moose signing means the Brewers will likely have vastly improved offensive production from the 7 and 8 spots in the order. I hope it's safe to assume Arcia will hit better than he did in the 2018 regular seaon.

 

That is probably the biggest question surrounding the Brewers offense. Who is the real Arcia at the plate?

[3and2Fastball]

C'mon now, this is Brewerfan.net, leave the Thames is better than Cain talk to the comments section on JS Online, if there is such a thing. Cain provides great OBP, great defense, & great baserunning.

[wntrtxn21]

 

Or, they bump Cain to 4th OF...

 

cf: Yelich

lf: Thames

rf: Braun

3b: Shaw

1b: Aguilar

c: Grandal

2b: Moustakas

ss: Arcia

 

Or maybe Arcia sits, and...

 

 

 

cf: Cain

1b: Thames

rf: Yelich

lf: Braun

3b: Aguilar

ss: Shaw

c: Grandal

2b: Moustakas

 

No defense... but POWERFUL offense...

 

 

Cain was a 6 WAR player. He also just signed an 80 million dollar contract. He was also just a top 10 MVP finisher. But we're suggesting moving him to a reserve role?

 

Why? To play Thames more?

 

The 2017 version of Thames posted an .877 OPS... Cain in 2018 had an .813 OPS.

 

In the first half of 2018, Thames had a .901 OPS. If he is healthy, he's got a very potent bat, one that is underrated because he's arguably been misplaced in the leadoff or #2 spot of the batting order.

 

Wow I assumed the Cain to bench thing was a joke. Just wow

 

Thames is a horrible OF and whiffs almost 40% of the time! He is an all-or-nothing type hitter who far too often, comes away with nothing. I don't even see him making the team if Stearns can do a salary dump and talk some other team into taking him. Cain is a tremendous CF and a very good leadoff hitter. Replacing him with Thames would be the epitome of stupidity.

[Eye Black]

From an article on the Moustakas signing:

 

"We faced roughly 120 right-handers and 40 left-handers from a starting-pitcher perspective," Counsell said. "There's four left-handers in our division, probably, if you map out the rotations. So I think we have some answers left-handed."

I get the sense they’ve prioritized having a strong lineup to face RHPs. Unfortunately 3 of those 4 LHP starters in the division pitch for the Cubs. The only other left-handed starter currently in the division is Alex Wood of the Reds.

[Roderick]

C'mon now, this is Brewerfan.net, leave the Thames is better than Cain talk to the comments section on JS Online, if there is such a thing. Cain provides great OBP, great defense, & great baserunning.

 

Even the veterans have risen to Clancy's clickbait on this one.

[Eye Black]

Saw this tweet from Tom Haudricourt responding to a fan that mentioned they would have preferred signing Jed Lowrie or Asdrúbal Cabera.

 

Let me know the next time Lowrie or Cabrera hit 25-30 HRs. #Brewers are trying to build an elite offense with no holes in lineup.

 

I just have to point out the irony of this statement from the same reporter that previously built a narrative around the 2017 team being overly reliant on home runs.

 

I am fine with the Moustakas signing, and understand why they likely didn’t want to give Lowrie the two or three year deal it would have likely taken to pry him away from signing with his agent-turned-GM. I also think it’s silly to suggest Moustakas is a superior hitter because he is able to hit more home runs (btw, Lowrie and Cabrera each hit 23 HRs last year).

[And That]

Sure he has above average offense, but literally provides little to nothing.

[Point Beer Is Best]

With Moose being signed to play 2B and Shaw covering 3B, has Lowrie requested a position change yet?

[MrTPlush]

Sure he has above average offense, but literally provides little to nothing.

 

Provides little to nothing outside of that. I must have cut myself off short.

 

Yah, having decent offense is great to have, but that is basically where his value will stop next year. I am not going to rehash other options, but you have to wonder if average offense that would have provided defense and bass running ability would have been a better option. I am not necessarily talking stolen bases either...but just a guy who doesn't have a plow hitched to his back end. Moustakas on the base paths is likely to cost us numerous times and his defense is probably going to be costly (how much remains to be seen on the later).

 

And for all the talk that his offense is above average he has a career OPS+ of 98, 108 in 2018, and 104 as a Brewer. Hardly something to get excited about when that is his one dimension of value and is slated to play 2B. It is a total analytical move. I think it will be fine, but funny to think how this move would have been viewed 10 years ago.

 

Also while no one has really mentioned it I won't be shocked when Moose find himself the odd man out and going all over the diamond if/when Hiura is deemed ready. Which may be part of the plan, who knows. It would give them quite a bit of depth to make the infield what ever they so choose on any given day. Moose, Shaw, and Hiura against a RHP starter would be quite an infield.

[TURBO]

With Moose being signed to play 2B and Shaw covering 3B, has Lowrie requested a position change yet?

 

Are you talking about Lawrie, Brett Lawrie?