Thames and Anderson?

[Madhawk23]

I've seen some speculation (especially after the Grandal signing) that it would make sense for us to now consider a trade of Thames and Chase Anderson. Actually, I'm sure there has been plenty of talk about this even before the Grandal signing, but we might need to free up some salary space now that we've added the 16M to our payroll for 2019.

 

So, what teams do we think would make the sense to work out a deal for Thames and Chase? And, what could we realistically expect back in return for them? Would we simply look at getting young, lottery ticket prospects back in return for these guys so that we can replenish the lower end of our farm system again after some of the recent trades?

 

And, if we were to trade both of these guys and save around 12M with our '19 payroll, do you think we'd then have room again to go out and add more $$ with either an upgrade at 2B or a LH starting pitcher?

[KeithStone53151]

Chase makes a lot of sense for the Giants or other teams with pitcher friendly parks. He's also good enough to pitch in the 3 or 4 spot on a contending team, so we could get some value there.

 

Thames makes sense for a non-contender with an opening at 1b/DH that could potentially give him atbats and try to flip him at the deadline. Also I think he could make sense for the Yankees coming off the bench, considering how RH heavy their lineup is.

[long ball]

Anderson- I think he has a role on this team. He wasn't exactly a lost cause and he's only 1 year removed from a very impressive season. His salary is likely less than what he'd get as a free agent so I think he has value to the Brewers. I wouldn't want him to be just moved for salary relief.

 

Thames- the Brewers would likely need to package him with some type of asset in order to move his full salary. Thames at $6mm is overpaid compared to the free agent market. He isn't demonstrably better than Matt Adams ($3mm), Justin Bour ($2.5mm), or David Freese ($4.5mm) who all signed smaller 1 year deals. If the Brewers are able to shed his whole salary by giving up a non-prospect minor leaguer or international signing pool $$ it would make sense, but only if they use the savings to put toward re-signing Miley or someone else. If it's just a move to shed salary with no other benefit, I'd rather keep Thames since I still think he has a role on this team in 2019.

[Oxy]

I'm guessing we just keep them both. If we trade Thames, we will have to replace him with somebody and that somebody will probably be a Thames clone--a left handed bench bat with some pop and some upside who can spell Aguilar at 1B and provide insurance in case Jesus regresses greatly. I guess Grandal fills that roll nicely on the days he isn't behind the dish, but that's just kind of a bonus--and hopefully he'll be starting a minimum of 120 games. Thames has a lot of warts, but anybody else we get is also going to have warts or else they'll be too expensive to acquire. Might as well just keep Thames.

 

Anderson is more expendable, but it's difficult for me to see another team give something up for him. If Stearns has a bunch of low level minor league guys that he values more than whatever organization would want Anderson then something could work I suppose, and we'd get a little salary relief.

[BlazingGunz]

In Rosenthal's piece on the Athletic today he mentioned the Marlins as looking at Thames possibly. Seems to be some interesting matchup possibilities to fit within our budget.

 

My thoughts:

 

Thames for Starlin Castro (sheds salary for Marlins, gives us our 2B within our budget range)

Thames for Caleb Smith (LH starter with potential)

Thames and Albers for Dan Straily and Adam Conley (RH starter and LH reliever, salaries would be a close match, Marlins shopping Straily)

 

or just move Thames and get some lottery tickets if the Marlins really want him

[NievesNoNO]

I'm not really sure there's an issue with money... or they wouldn't have signed Grandal. I think both Anderson and Thames will play in important role this season. I'm not saying don't explore; I just don't think either brings back anything useful. They have more value to the 2019 Brewers than they can get back, especially if they're making a run at a WS.

[reillymcshane]

Rosenthal said specifically that the Crew were trying to clear payroll in order to make a signing - probably Wade Miley. Rosenthal says Thames and Albers were two guys the club was looking to move.

 

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/1/15/18183878/report-brewers-look-to-trim-payroll-for-another-addition-wade-miley-reunion-possible

 

The article from is from the Atlantic - so I don't have the specifics as it is behind a paywall.

[anglotiger]

Rosenthal said specifically that the Crew were trying to clear payroll in order to make a signing - probably Wade Miley. Rosenthal says Thames and Albers were two guys the club was looking to move.

 

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/1/15/18183878/report-brewers-look-to-trim-payroll-for-another-addition-wade-miley-reunion-possible

 

The article from is from the Atlantic - so I don't have the specifics as it is behind a paywall.

 

I'm still having the delusional hope for Dallas Keuchel... I know - a ridiculous pipedream... Miley is much, much more likely...

[CheeseheadInQC]

I've got a feeling Anderson is moved if and only if the Brewers acquire another pitcher. For instance if they bring Miley back, I think Anderson probably gets dealt to make up the salary difference and add to the minors.

[502 to Right]

I would not give up talent just to move Thames' contract. That's crazy. He has value to this team so you might as well ride out 2019 with him.

[TooLiveBrew]

I would not give up talent just to move Thames' contract. That's crazy. He has value to this team so you might as well ride out 2019 with him.

I agree that I'd like to keep Thames, but the problem becomes roster space. Assuming they carry 12 or 13 pitchers, that leaves 4 or 5 bench spots.

 

Barring anything unforeseen, you have Piña, Perez/Spangenberg, & Gamel that seem like locks for the bench. If they keep the bench at 5 players, it should be easy to carry Thames. But if they only carry 4 bench players, I could see them valuing a true CF option over Thames.

 

With all that said, I hope they keep him. He seems like a good guy with a good attitude, and he can provide a ton of LH power off the bench plus give Aguilar plenty of time to rest against RH SPs.

[OnTheBlack]

Anderson- I think he has a role on this team. He wasn't exactly a lost cause and he's only 1 year removed from a very impressive season. His salary is likely less than what he'd get as a free agent so I think he has value to the Brewers. I wouldn't want him to be just moved for salary relief.

 

 

Remember the thread asking who the Brewers would want starting a Game One that season? I agree, I'd like to see Chase back in the rotation and hopefully performing well again. I don't think it's wise to move on from him.

[Lathund]

I feel like, with 5 seasons under his belt, Chase is probably closer to the player he was in his four non-2017 seasons than he is the 2017 version. Even during that season he ran a 4.33 xFIP. Being a heavy flyball pitcher with an above-average HR/FB rate isn't a good combination. Doesn't have the kind of K/BB numbers to help mitigate that either. That's not to say he can't still be a useful starter, but if another starter is added then he will be the prime candidate to move on.

[ebmackenzie]

 

The article from is from the Atlantic - so I don't have the specifics as it is behind a paywall.

 

The Athletic...and sometimes behind the paywall material can be found on reddit

[JohnBriggs12]

Rosenthal said specifically that the Crew were trying to clear payroll in order to make a signing - probably Wade Miley. Rosenthal says Thames and Albers were two guys the club was looking to move.

 

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/1/15/18183878/report-brewers-look-to-trim-payroll-for-another-addition-wade-miley-reunion-possible

 

The article from is from the Atlantic - so I don't have the specifics as it is behind a paywall.

 

Albers has negative trade value. No way they can move that salary. They are going to have to eat it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I personally don't think there is anything to this idea that the Brewers need to shed salary to make another addition. I think its more about roster flexibility as well. If Thames is dealt, that opens a spot for a more versatile player. I still believe that the Brewers are waiting in the weeds to make a play for Marwin Gonzalez. Between his switch-hitting bat, positional versatility and the Astros connection during Stearns' time there, the fit just makes too much sense. While Thames does offer some versatility, it isn't near what Marwin would provide.

 

If the Brewers are honestly in the situation where they need to shed salary to sign a pitcher like Wade Miley, that's scary. If they were operating that close to a perceived budget cap, I don't think there is any way they would have inked Grandal to the deal he got. No, I think they are looking at trading off some pieces with the goal of making the roster more versatile.

[JohnBriggs12]

The problem with Thames is he has very little positional value and strikes out way too much. I'd much rather have a guy like Solarte in that roster spot, who's hit 35 HR combined the last couple years, can play all over the infield and has never fanned more than 72 times in any season.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Rosenthal said specifically that the Crew were trying to clear payroll in order to make a signing - probably Wade Miley. Rosenthal says Thames and Albers were two guys the club was looking to move.

 

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/1/15/18183878/report-brewers-look-to-trim-payroll-for-another-addition-wade-miley-reunion-possible

 

The article from is from the Atlantic - so I don't have the specifics as it is behind a paywall.

 

Albers has negative trade value. No way they can move that salary. They are going to have to eat it.

 

You are probably right. Albers coming off a terrific 2017 was only able to get a 2 year/$5 million deal. He's a gut you bring to camp hoping he's figured it out and looks good in the exhibition season. Then you can either flip him or just keep him and hope the good version shows up for most of the season.

[FVBrewerFan]

Aguilar hit .876 vs RHP last year, there is really no need to platoon there. Even in 2017 he had solid numbers. For some reason a lot of people still doubt him, but he's only 29 and I don't see why he wouldn't put up similar numbers again this year.

 

Thames really needs to be traded, there is just no room for him- especially since he plays only one position. Shaw, Braun, Grandal could all play 1B here and there to give Aguilar some days off. The final position player spot needs to be an IF that can play multiple positions.

[JosephC]

Just say no to Wade Miley. In the three seasons before getting to Milwaukee, Miley posted a 5.10 ERA, 1.50 WHIP and 4.46 FIP. So what are the chances that Miley "remade" himself in 2018 and the success he had last year is sustainable? His ERA was a sparkling 2.57 but the FIP was 3.59 and the xFIP was 4.30. His K/9 was a lousy 5.6 and the K/BB was under 2. BABIP number was far better than the league average (.269) and the HR/FB ratio was a remarkable 5.2%. Pretty much everything screams that a huge regression is in line. I wouldn't be a bit upset if the Brewers could get him at 1 year, 3 million (think the market would demand more), but no way should Milwaukee give him something like 8 million or a two year deal. The track record just isn't very good.

[tmwiese55]

Aguilar hit .876 vs RHP last year, there is really no need to platoon there. Even in 2017 he had solid numbers. For some reason a lot of people still doubt him, but he's only 29 and I don't see why he wouldn't put up similar numbers again this year.

 

Thames really needs to be traded, there is just no room for him- especially since he plays only one position. Shaw, Braun, Grandal could all play 1B here and there to give Aguilar some days off. The final position player spot needs to be an IF that can play multiple positions.

 

I 100% agree with your second paragraph.

 

For the first, it simply because he was not good at all in the second half. So, through the ridiculous first half we were all saying this is likely a fluke and way above waht he can do. Second half happense where he wasn't good and it's then very reasonable to think he's closer to 2nd half than 1st. I'm hoping he dropped a few pounds and of course am fine rolling him out there basically full time again to start the year as I expect him to be in the middle of the two halves last year. But if the first 2-3 months are like the end of last year you then start looking to recude his ABs vs righties a bit and finding improvements somehow. Basically, it's not really likely for him to match his numbers from last year because that 2 month crazy stretch isn't gonna happen again.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Just say no to Wade Miley. In the three seasons before getting to Milwaukee, Miley posted a 5.10 ERA, 1.50 WHIP and 4.46 FIP. So what are the chances that Miley "remade" himself in 2018 and the success he had last year is sustainable? His ERA was a sparkling 2.57 but the FIP was 3.59 and the xFIP was 4.30. His K/9 was a lousy 5.6 and the K/BB was under 2. BABIP number was far better than the league average (.269) and the HR/FB ratio was a remarkable 5.2%. Pretty much everything screams that a huge regression is in line. I wouldn't be a bit upset if the Brewers could get him at 1 year, 3 million (think the market would demand more), but no way should Milwaukee give him something like 8 million or a two year deal. The track record just isn't very good.

 

I tend to agree here - and would actually prefer that rotation spot manned by Miley for roughly 1/2 the 2018 season be filled by none other than Jimmy Nelson. We talk about having a plethora of pitching options and are eager to see how the flexibility with bullpenning and versatile multi-inning relievers will be employed...the most difficult aspect of this is that there's a numbers crunch even now without adding a pitcher via free agency. I think if there's any SP added to this roster, it will be via trade and will include one or more of their current arms on the 40 man headed out of town. We remember Miley being solid down the stretch, but it's easy to forget he missed a ton of time in 2018, too. He only pitched 80 innings in the regular season, Chase gave them ~160 despite basically being shut down the last few weeks of the year.

 

Nelson

Chacin

Anderson

Davies

Burnes

Peralta

Woodruff

Guerra

 

That's 8 pitchers with MLB-bonafides to serve as rotation options/multi inning "opener"-type long relievers. I'd like to change at least 1 or 2 of those options out with lefties - I'd be ok with Miley, but I hesitate at having to sign him knowing that another move would need to get done to create roster space, which would most likely be eating a player's salary after cutting them (Albers), trading away a decent pitcher while still eating salary (Anderson, Davies), or holding another young pitcher down in AAA that doesn't deserved to be down there (Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta). I'd be ok with trading Anderson or Davies, even open with trading one of the young righties, if it meant bringing back a quality lefty or stud righty starter.

[long ball]

Just say no to Wade Miley. In the three seasons before getting to Milwaukee, Miley posted a 5.10 ERA, 1.50 WHIP and 4.46 FIP. So what are the chances that Miley "remade" himself in 2018 and the success he had last year is sustainable? His ERA was a sparkling 2.57 but the FIP was 3.59 and the xFIP was 4.30. His K/9 was a lousy 5.6 and the K/BB was under 2. BABIP number was far better than the league average (.269) and the HR/FB ratio was a remarkable 5.2%. Pretty much everything screams that a huge regression is in line. I wouldn't be a bit upset if the Brewers could get him at 1 year, 3 million (think the market would demand more), but no way should Milwaukee give him something like 8 million or a two year deal. The track record just isn't very good.

 

Well, he's throwing a different pitch mix now. He started throwing a cutter a little bit in 2017 and relied on it heavily (42.55% of the time per brooksbaseball.net).

 

So there's reason to believe he did actually remake himself and he will be a good pitchers again in 2019. I don't think anyone would expect a 2.5 ERA again, but a mid 3 ERA could be a reasonable expectation.

[FVBrewerFan]

Aguilar hit .876 vs RHP last year, there is really no need to platoon there. Even in 2017 he had solid numbers. For some reason a lot of people still doubt him, but he's only 29 and I don't see why he wouldn't put up similar numbers again this year.

 

Thames really needs to be traded, there is just no room for him- especially since he plays only one position. Shaw, Braun, Grandal could all play 1B here and there to give Aguilar some days off. The final position player spot needs to be an IF that can play multiple positions.

 

I 100% agree with your second paragraph.

 

For the first, it simply because he was not good at all in the second half. So, through the ridiculous first half we were all saying this is likely a fluke and way above waht he can do. Second half happense where he wasn't good and it's then very reasonable to think he's closer to 2nd half than 1st. I'm hoping he dropped a few pounds and of course am fine rolling him out there basically full time again to start the year as I expect him to be in the middle of the two halves last year. But if the first 2-3 months are like the end of last year you then start looking to recude his ABs vs righties a bit and finding improvements somehow. Basically, it's not really likely for him to match his numbers from last year because that 2 month crazy stretch isn't gonna happen again.

 

Fair enough. But he did hit .760 in the 2nd half, it's not like he was horrible. Point taken though, I wouldn't bank on a .900+ season from him. Possible, but would definitely feel better with a backup plan.

[xisxisxis]

I 100% agree with your second paragraph.

 

For the first, it simply because he was not good at all in the second half. So, through the ridiculous first half we were all saying this is likely a fluke and way above waht he can do. Second half happense where he wasn't good and it's then very reasonable to think he's closer to 2nd half than 1st. I'm hoping he dropped a few pounds and of course am fine rolling him out there basically full time again to start the year as I expect him to be in the middle of the two halves last year. But if the first 2-3 months are like the end of last year you then start looking to recude his ABs vs righties a bit and finding improvements somehow. Basically, it's not really likely for him to match his numbers from last year because that 2 month crazy stretch isn't gonna happen again.

It's been stated as fact that Aguilar was "not good at all" or 'horrible' or other negative comments by posters about his second half last year. The facts:

 

[pre]Half wRC+

1st 160

2nd 101[/pre]

While not as FANTASTIC as his 1st half, his 2nd half was slightly above league average, which is GOOD.