Dallas Keuchel

[Eye Black]

I thought I remember Keuchel having some negative comments towards the Brewers bullpen heavy approach during the playoffs last year. Based on that, I'd be surprised if he picked us...assuming we are even involved. That said, I'm sure he could get more on board with our approach real quick if we offered him the most money.

Tried finding some quotes on it, but remember in the playoffs Keuchel came out and said he believed the Brewers pitching strategy was a fad and that it would never work long term. I bet he felt it diminished the value of starters with his Free Agency time coming up. Not sure if his line of thinking during the playoffs would prevent him from choosing us if he had two equal offers on the table, but he clearly wasn't a fan of the strategy back then.

 

Keuchel questions sustainability of bullpenning via MLB.com (direct quotes are bolded):

 

"Bullpenning" is a silly, short-term non-issue that will soon be a thing of the past. Or, it's a baseball trend that has been proven to work, and it's here to stay.

 

Perspective on this recently developed phenomenon varies, depending on who you ask.

 

So let's ask. Dallas Keuchel, what say you?

 

"I don't like it at all," Keuchel said on Monday. "I think it's kind of a fad."

 

Given the trajectory of his career, it's not all that surprising that Keuchel, who will start Game 3 of the American League Championship Series against the Red Sox on Tuesday, would have this viewpoint. He has had a fruitful career as a starter, reaching the 200-inning plateau three times in his six full seasons in the big leagues. He reached a career high in 2015, the year he won the AL Cy Young Award, throwing 232 innings over 33 starts.

 

Traditionally -- dating back to the stone ages of three years ago -- if a team had a starting rotation full of pitchers who couldn't get past the fifth inning, it was widely understood the bullpen would be burnt out by August, and the team would be, quite frankly, just really bad.

 

This year, though, several teams in the pool of 10 who made the postseason not only defied that philosophy but made their way to playoff berths using their relievers in more innings than their starters. That doesn't even include the Rays, who nearly cracked the postseason by spending the last half of the season using a three-out "opener."

 

Keuchel, a soon-to-be free agent, said he understands the concept of bullpenning in the short term, but he questioned its sustainability over the course of a full season.

 

"You're going to get some guys hurt who aren't used to throwing as much," Keuchel said. "You can't couple six or seven relievers in one game and expect them to last 162 games. That's just not the way it is.

 

"I think the 25-man roster, maybe a 30-man roster, throughout the course of 162 games is an ancient artifact now, where teams are more willing to just do whatever it takes, no matter the cost. But I don't like that."

[ThisIsMyCrew]

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Now there is a non-reliable source LOL

[ThisIsMyCrew]

 

Now there is a non-reliable source LOL

 

It’s the most empty tweet you can have...could literally be anything or nothing. The big “If” word.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Now there is a non-reliable source LOL

 

It’s the most empty tweet you can have...could literally be anything or nothing. The big “If” word.

 

BrewerWorld is a 100% joke account. All insider claims are 100-percent BS

[billymac]

Thank you Eye Black

[JosephC]

Crane didn't list the Phillies as a finalist, but I'll stick with the Phillies as my prediction. I think they strike out on Harper and Machado, and then they spend their money on what they perceive is next best, which I would guess means Keuchel and Kimbrel.

[anglotiger]

If the Brewers had a starter who pitched as well 3rd time through the order as he did the 2nd, they'd let that guy pitch longer, I'm sure of it. Counsell alluded to as much himself at one point, talking about how you do the most with what you've got. Compared it to the early 2000s Diamondbacks which Counsell was on, where they had Curt Schilling and Randy Johnson who you'd certainly use quite differently than what the Brewers did in 2018. The quick hooks are a way to avoid a specific issue, the weakness third time through the order that many (or even most) starters have. If that weakness isn't there, then there's less need for them. Having one or two spots in the rotation being guys who can go deep into games just makes the other rotation spots stronger, allowing you to use the bullpen more efficiently and more aggressively on those days. I imagine that even if Keuchel or Nelson or someone else turns out to be a real workhorse we still won't see a ton of 110+ pitch games or a 220 IP season, but they'll get a longer leash than the guys had in 2018.

 

Yep. I think you are 100% right. I really couldn't agree with this more. That doesn't mean that the Brewers aren't going to continue to use analytics to "blur the lines" between starter and reliever based on matchups. But I agree that if the Brewers had the horses capable of throwing 7 strong nearly every time out, or if the bullpen wasn't as effective, you'd see longer starts. They really aren't inventing anything. They are just more cognizant of matchups.

 

IIRC, during the radio broadcasts from "On Deck", Counsell talked about this and said that what they did with the bullpen was only possible after the roster expansion in September. It certainly didn't sound like they were planning on following the Tampa Bay model for a full season.

[tigerbrew]

Hope we can get both Keuchel and Miley, two very good lefties for the rotation, our pitching staff would be great and deep.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Hope we can get both Keuchel and Miley, two very good lefties for the rotation, our pitching staff would be great and deep.

 

If you get both, then two have to go currently on the 40 man roster...who are the two we essentially trade for less than top value or outright release for nothing?

[SRB]

Hope we can get both Keuchel and Miley, two very good lefties for the rotation, our pitching staff would be great and deep.

 

If you get both, then two have to go currently on the 40 man roster...who are the two we essentially trade for less than top value or outright release for nothing?

 

Kratz, Petricka, Houser, there are a few that are expendable

 

Houser is out of options and if he doesn't make a crowded bullpen out of ST then he might be in that situation anyway

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Hope we can get both Keuchel and Miley, two very good lefties for the rotation, our pitching staff would be great and deep.

 

If you get both, then two have to go currently on the 40 man roster...who are the two we essentially trade for less than top value or outright release for nothing?

 

There is room at the bottom of the 40-man. Saladino, Kratz, Suter, Petricka, Wilkerson, and probably Albers could be dropped. Thames, Anderson and Davies are obvious trade candidates. They are by no means tied down from making players moves.

[jjfanec]

Do we really need two starting pitchers? Keuchal and Miley would be nice but you have Chacin, Davies, Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Anderson and at least Jimmy Nelson thinks he is going to be ready. That is 9 starters. Maybe you trade Anderson and Davies and let Nelson start in AAA and then have one of the young arms in the bullpen. Would that be the plan?

[ewitkows]

You always need pitching depth. Not really sure what they are going to get out of Anderson,Davies, Nelson.

[djoctagone]

Hope we can get both Keuchel and Miley, two very good lefties for the rotation, our pitching staff would be great and deep.

If you get both, then two have to go currently on the 40 man roster...who are the two we essentially trade for less than top value or outright release for nothing?

not necessarily. the brewers could sign keuchel to a minor league deal with a ridiculous guaranteed salary, or a modest deal with a buyout higher than his negotiated salary if he's not on the major league roster or major league disabled list at the end of camp. this would all but force the club's hand to add keuchel to the 40-man roster before rosters are set.

 

the brewers won't break camp with four catchers on their 40-man. brent suter is a likely candidate for the 60-day disabled list. spots will open up.

[JohnBriggs12]

Do we really need two starting pitchers? Keuchal and Miley would be nice but you have Chacin, Davies, Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Anderson and at least Jimmy Nelson thinks he is going to be ready. That is 9 starters. Maybe you trade Anderson and Davies and let Nelson start in AAA and then have one of the young arms in the bullpen. Would that be the plan?

 

No they don't need two but they could use a lefty. I would suspect they'd deal Anderson or Davies near the end of ST. Some team out there is going to have a pitcher or two come up with a ST injury. i could see them trying Anderson in relief too. He might be able to ramp up is fastball to 96-97 going an inning.

[clancyphile]

Nelson and Davies do have minor-league options left... given that they missed most or all of 2018, it might not be a bad idea to have one or both in San Antonio for a bit...

[reillymcshane]

Do we really need two starting pitchers? Keuchal and Miley would be nice but you have Chacin, Davies, Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Anderson and at least Jimmy Nelson thinks he is going to be ready. That is 9 starters. Maybe you trade Anderson and Davies and let Nelson start in AAA and then have one of the young arms in the bullpen. Would that be the plan?

 

No they don't need two but they could use a lefty. I would suspect they'd deal Anderson or Davies near the end of ST. Some team out there is going to have a pitcher or two come up with a ST injury. i could see them trying Anderson in relief too. He might be able to ramp up is fastball to 96-97 going an inning.

I've noted this before -- a lot of the guys linked to the Brewers have been left-handed this off-season. Which makes sense. That's why Miley fits. However, if the Crew feel that Keuchel is getting into 'value' territory - it behooves them to explore things. In the end, I expect them to add a left handed starter. I'm guessing Miley -- but you never know.

[Fear The Chorizo]

All I was trying to point out is that any further moves to add to the roster will come with the need to make other moves to make room. I don't think we need two more starters, one quality guy could really help, especially if he is lefthanded.

 

Also keep in mind that Hiura isn't currently on the 40 man...so one of those expendable type spots is probably already earmarked for when he may get called up. It's great to have lots of pitchers with options remaining, but relying on using them to keep guys around when they are proven mlb pitchers (Davies, nelson, anderson, and the younger guys) walks a very fine line between maintaining depth and ticking guys off. Even with the current roster, I think they should look to trade an arm or two for prospects before opening day.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Do we really need two starting pitchers? Keuchal and Miley would be nice but you have Chacin, Davies, Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Anderson and at least Jimmy Nelson thinks he is going to be ready. That is 9 starters. Maybe you trade Anderson and Davies and let Nelson start in AAA and then have one of the young arms in the bullpen. Would that be the plan?

 

No they don't need two but they could use a lefty. I would suspect they'd deal Anderson or Davies near the end of ST. Some team out there is going to have a pitcher or two come up with a ST injury. i could see them trying Anderson in relief too. He might be able to ramp up is fastball to 96-97 going an inning.

I've noted this before -- a lot of the guys linked to the Brewers have been left-handed this off-season. Which makes sense. That's why Miley fits. However, if the Crew feel that Keuchel is getting into 'value' territory - it behooves them to explore things. In the end, I expect them to add a left handed starter. I'm guessing Miley -- but you never know.

 

In addition to Keuchel and Miley, available left-handed starters include Gio Gonzalez, Brett Anderson, Francisco Liriano and Sam Howard. Pretty slim pickings. I wonder if they would consider signing Gio to a cheap deal if Keuchel or Miley prove too costly compared to the value they'd provide?

[jjfanec]

You always need pitching depth. Not really sure what they are going to get out of Anderson,Davies, Nelson.

 

I get needing depth and the Brewers have no real sure things - but that is true for a lot of teams. I think they for sure add a lefty - either Keuchel or Miley. Signing both would seem excessive and to me not necessary because I think a rotation of

1. Miley/Keuchel

2. Chacin

3. Burnes

4. Woodruff/Peralta - other in bullpen

5. Anderson/Nelson/Davies

 

Is both deep and has the potential to be very good. With just one add you are 8 starters deep with Geurra and others who could spot start. You could trade one and still be 7 quality starters deep

[pacopete4]

Log jams. Create them everywhere.

[And That]

I believe it is actually impossible to have too much starting pitching. No team has ever finished a season saying to themselves, "man we overestimated how much pitching we'd need."

[jjfanec]

Log jams. Create them everywhere.

 

Sure. But we do have a budget and what is the best way to spend that money. I would rather save some to have if we need to trade for a middle IF in case Huira isnt ready or Arcia struggles. Both Miley and Keuchel will get multi-year deals and I want some of that money for a catcher again next year too.

 

I wouldnt be sad to get both just dont know if that is the best way to spend our limited resources

[clancyphile]

All I was trying to point out is that any further moves to add to the roster will come with the need to make other moves to make room. I don't think we need two more starters, one quality guy could really help, especially if he is lefthanded.

 

Also keep in mind that Hiura isn't currently on the 40 man...so one of those expendable type spots is probably already earmarked for when he may get called up. It's great to have lots of pitchers with options remaining, but relying on using them to keep guys around when they are proven mlb pitchers (Davies, nelson, anderson, and the younger guys) walks a very fine line between maintaining depth and ticking guys off. Even with the current roster, I think they should look to trade an arm or two for prospects before opening day.

 

With Nelson, it's simply a matter of he's missed enough time that he has to have rust - rust that spring training alone might not be able to shake off. Having him at San Antonio lets him shake off that rust (good for him) while not impacting the big-league club (good for the Crew). Ditto for Davies, who missed about 60% of his starts in 2018. Maybe they can build up enough value for a trade in that timeframe.

 

If the Crew gets Keuchel, I figure Wilkerson gets outrighted or Albers is released. Hiura probably replaces the other.

 

A Keuchel, Chacin, Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta rotation wouldn't be a bad one, IMO.

 

Anderson and Houser are the two arms I'd look at moving for some prospects.