Dallas Keuchel

[OnTheBlack]

Very much on board with Keuchel over Kimbrel at this point. Put Burnes or Woodruff back in the pen where they were such weapons last year.

 

Hader has shown that in today’s baseball you don’t need to be a starter to maximize your value to the team. As contrary as it runs to a century of baseball logic, with Counsell I believe we are better with a strong bullpen and ok rotation than a strong rotation and meh bullpen.

 

 

Agree wholeheartedly. When Knebel went down, it changed things in the pen. All the young starters are having trouble keeping hitters off their fastball. Their offspeed stuff just isn't up to par with top starters, and their breaking stuff is a mixture of hangers and pitches that are out of the zone out of their hand. I'd move both Burnes and Woodruff to the pen and insert Anderson and Houser until Kuechel is ready.

 

 

So basically then, at this point we'd just be saying that neither is a starting pitcher despite both clearly having the ability to be successful starters because they've struggled through their first couple starts(while also showing some extremely encouraging signs).

 

If often takes young pitchers more than a few starts to figure it out. And I don't know why we're so confident in Houser if we've lost confidence in Burnes and Woodruff.

 

And while the teams record in a pitchers start is obviously not a determining factor in keeping them in the rotation, the Brewers are 5-3 in the 8 starts these two have made and they're both getting a lot of swings and misses. My only point being is that it's not like they're pitching us out of games and both should be given a bit more rope before we pull the plug on two promising young starters for a less promising young starter(Houser) and an older starter in Anderson who had the same problem last year with HR's that have hurt Burnes and Woodruff thus far.

 

These three should be kept in the rotation through May. If you take them out, take them out and send them down rather than just relegating both to the pen for their careers at this early stage.

[Madhawk23]

So, when do we think something is going to happen with Keuchel and Kimbrel? I'm just personally shocked that we are sitting here on 4/18 and both of these guys remain unsigned. I still have this gut feeling that we are eventually going to land one of these two guys, but I really have no basis for that opinion. When will the dominoes fall here though? Are other teams going to wait until after the draft to make a serious offer, so that they don't give up a pick? Does Stearns care that much about our 4th draft pick to hold back on adding one of these two guys? Will we go multiple years for one of these guys, or are we simply in the 1-yr market? Again - just crazy that both of these guys are still out on the market.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

So, when do we think something is going to happen with Keuchel and Kimbrel? I'm just personally shocked that we are sitting here on 4/18 and both of these guys remain unsigned. I still have this gut feeling that we are eventually going to land one of these two guys, but I really have no basis for that opinion. When will the dominoes fall here though? Are other teams going to wait until after the draft to make a serious offer, so that they don't give up a pick? Does Stearns care that much about our 4th draft pick to hold back on adding one of these two guys? Will we go multiple years for one of these guys, or are we simply in the 1-yr market? Again - just crazy that both of these guys are still out on the market.

 

I have the same gut feeling with a lean to the Brewers landing Kimbrel.

[brewmann04]

The bottom line either one will make this pitching staff harder to beat

[jonescm128]

Better idea:

 

Wait until Saturday and hope the Yankees don't add Gio Gonzalez to the MLB roster, sign Gio, then use the savings to go after Kimbrel.

 

I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE

[Yellin4Yelich]

The rumors that the Mets and Phillies are interested in Mike Minor is interesting. He is making 9.8 mil for 2019 and again in 2020, and would cost some prospects. While Keuchel sits there.

 

The draft pick/slot money is probably a significant reason, I'm thinking he's not getting signed until after the June draft.

[Brew crew 92]

Better idea:

 

Wait until Saturday and hope the Yankees don't add Gio Gonzalez to the MLB roster, sign Gio, then use the savings to go after Kimbrel.

 

I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE

 

Your plan, as good as it is, would be my plan B

 

My plan A:

 

Sign Kuechel AND Kimbrel.

Trade Kuechel at this year’s deadline

Trade kimbrel at next year’s deadline

 

Kimbrel massively improves our pen for this year, and next year till knebel and Wahl are back.

 

Keuchel gives us a big time quality starter till Nelson and or Burnes re-establishes themselves in our rotation.

 

Prospect haul could be massive, at worst more than what we’d lose with lower round draft choices givin up.

 

If we backload Kimbrel’s contract, we could have use of both for this year at 20-22 mil

 

Or do plan B > Gio and Kimbrel for 13-18 mil

[wntrtxn21]

Better idea:

 

Wait until Saturday and hope the Yankees don't add Gio Gonzalez to the MLB roster, sign Gio, then use the savings to go after Kimbrel.

 

I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE

 

Your plan, as good as it is, would be my plan B

 

My plan A:

 

Sign Kuechel AND Kimbrel.

Trade Kuechel at this year’s deadline

Trade kimbrel at next year’s deadline

 

Kimbrel massively improves our pen for this year, and next year till knebel and Wahl are back.

 

Keuchel gives us a big time quality starter till Nelson and or Burnes re-establishes themselves in our rotation.

 

Prospect haul could be massive, at worst more than what we’d lose with lower round draft choices givin up.

 

If we backload Kimbrel’s contract, we could have use of both for this year at 20-22 mil

 

Or do plan B > Gio and Kimbrel for 13-18 mil

 

Stearns is not going to risk $30-40M just to try and trade them. Too many things could go wrong, or if the Brewers are in the thick of things, he wouldn't want to trade either one. Since nobody wants Keuchel now, who is going to give up any prospects to get him ( and his contract) later?

[Brew crew 92]

Better idea:

 

Wait until Saturday and hope the Yankees don't add Gio Gonzalez to the MLB roster, sign Gio, then use the savings to go after Kimbrel.

 

I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE

 

Your plan, as good as it is, would be my plan B

 

My plan A:

 

Sign Kuechel AND Kimbrel.

Trade Kuechel at this year’s deadline

Trade kimbrel at next year’s deadline

 

Kimbrel massively improves our pen for this year, and next year till knebel and Wahl are back.

 

Keuchel gives us a big time quality starter till Nelson and or Burnes re-establishes themselves in our rotation.

 

Prospect haul could be massive, at worst more than what we’d lose with lower round draft choices givin up.

 

If we backload Kimbrel’s contract, we could have use of both for this year at 20-22 mil

 

Or do plan B > Gio and Kimbrel for 13-18 mil

 

Stearns is not going to risk $30-40M just to try and trade them. Too many things could go wrong, or if the Brewers are in the thick of things, he wouldn't want to trade either one. Since nobody wants Keuchel now, who is going to give up any prospects to get him ( and his contract) later?

 

Kuechel cost only be 6 mil so there should be plenty of suitors, but your right, not gonna want to trade him if in the thick of it. So maybe plan B?

 

They need kimbrel more than gio, if there’s only enough $ for one, kimbrel back loaded, then trade next year’s deadline.

[TURBO]

Better idea:

 

Wait until Saturday and hope the Yankees don't add Gio Gonzalez to the MLB roster, sign Gio, then use the savings to go after Kimbrel.

 

I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE

 

Your plan, as good as it is, would be my plan B

 

My plan A:

 

Sign Kuechel AND Kimbrel.

Trade Kuechel at this year’s deadline

Trade kimbrel at next year’s deadline

 

Kimbrel massively improves our pen for this year, and next year till knebel and Wahl are back.

 

Keuchel gives us a big time quality starter till Nelson and or Burnes re-establishes themselves in our rotation.

 

Prospect haul could be massive, at worst more than what we’d lose with lower round draft choices givin up.

 

If we backload Kimbrel’s contract, we could have use of both for this year at 20-22 mil

 

Or do plan B > Gio and Kimbrel for 13-18 mil

 

So, if we are in a pennant chase this year, you want to trade away one of the guys who got us there? (Kuechel) Makes zero sense.

 

Same with next year, you want to take a team in the middle of a pennant chase, and trade their closer (Kimbrel)

 

This logic makes no sense unless our playoff hopes have diminished, and we are out of it.

 

No sense at all.

 

Also, unless I missed something earlier, why would Kimbrel only cost us 6 million?

[Brew crew 92]

Better idea:

 

Wait until Saturday and hope the Yankees don't add Gio Gonzalez to the MLB roster, sign Gio, then use the savings to go after Kimbrel.

 

I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE

 

Your plan, as good as it is, would be my plan B

 

My plan A:

 

Sign Kuechel AND Kimbrel.

Trade Kuechel at this year’s deadline

Trade kimbrel at next year’s deadline

 

Kimbrel massively improves our pen for this year, and next year till knebel and Wahl are back.

 

Keuchel gives us a big time quality starter till Nelson and or Burnes re-establishes themselves in our rotation.

 

Prospect haul could be massive, at worst more than what we’d lose with lower round draft choices givin up.

 

If we backload Kimbrel’s contract, we could have use of both for this year at 20-22 mil

 

Or do plan B > Gio and Kimbrel for 13-18 mil

 

So, if we are in a pennant chase this year, you want to trade away one of the guys who got us there? (Kuechel) Makes zero sense.

 

Same with next year, you want to take a team in the middle of a pennant chase, and trade their closer (Kimbrel)

 

This logic makes no sense unless our playoff hopes have diminished, and we are out of it.

 

No sense at all.

 

Also, unless I missed something earlier, why would Kimbrel only cost us 6 million?

 

Kuechel if we traded at deadline would cost the team acquiring him only 6 mil for the 2 months they had him

 

This scenario is NOT what I want to have happen, but IF $ is THAT much a factor just trying to figure out a way to get the kind of player we need to win THIS year.

 

I’m for the life of me, trying to think of a legitimate reason we wouldn’t sign kimbrel to, IF needed, backloaded 3 year deal.

 

3 @ 45

9 MIL THIS YEAR.

16 mil in 2020 and 17 in 2021

 

Backload 3 mil and prorated 1/6 of this year 3 mil

 

Then if Attanasio decides not to spend on kimbrel next yr we trade him

 

We get another JOSH HADER the rest of this year for 9 mil

 

WHY WOUDNT WE DO THIS DEAL?

[True Blue Brew Crew]

WHY WOUDNT WE DO THIS DEAL?

 

There could be any number of reasons why not and no matter how many times you post that you want him signed you still don't know any of them. None of us do. Maybe it will come out (what the hold up was) once he signs with the Brewers or another team.

[Brew crew 92]

WHY WOUDNT WE DO THIS DEAL?

 

There could be any number of reasons why not and no matter how many times you post that you want him signed you still don't know any of them. None of us do. Maybe it will come out (what the hold up was) once he signs with the Brewers or another team.

 

Any number of reasons?

 

Other than not wanting to spend the $, curious what those reasons might be?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

WHY WOUDNT WE DO THIS DEAL?

 

There could be any number of reasons why not and no matter how many times you post that you want him signed you still don't know any of them. None of us do. Maybe it will come out (what the hold up was) once he signs with the Brewers or another team.

 

Any number of reasons?

 

Other than not wanting to spend the $, curious what those reasons might be?

 

If you believe the rumors that they got close back in March, it is likely the Brewers did a medical eval on him. Perhaps something came up there? Perhaps they feel he wouldn't be a fit in the locker room or personality-wise? Perhaps Kimbrel requires a multi-year deal, and the Brewers aren't comfortable going there? Perhaps the saw something in Kimbrel's performance last year that indicates regression?

 

Like True Brew says, there are potentially multiple reasons other than "Bah, Brewers' ownership is CHEAP!" that this hasn't happened.

[JosephC]

I think Brew crew 92 should start a Go Fund Me page for the Brewers so they can sign a few more impact free agents. We all should be sick of Attanasio's penny-pinching ways. Oh, how I long for the big-spending days when Laurel and Wendy were running the show!

[Brew crew 92]

Thanks for the response jmb.

Just for the record, I’ve never said brewers ownership is cheap. Atlanta > cheap. Pittsburgh > cheap.

 

Medicals? Very low % that’s the reason. For one thing, I don’t believe stearns would have been able to or wanted to spend what was being asked by Kimbrel’s camp at THAT time. I don’t believe they were close and therefore no medicals.

 

Personality, clubhouse? Low % that’s the reason, not gonna explain.

 

Regression? Do you really think that could be a legitimate reason? Velo > no change. Curve still devastating. Went thru some knebel like loss of command in the playoffs, but in all reality prob just a blip. So I’d say low % on regression.

 

Not comfortable with multi-year deal? Ok, maybe that’s it, but I would argue, since Stearns M/O is all about value, he would think to get kimbrel for LESS than wade davis would be a steal of a deal. Also could trade him after this year, or at next yrs deadline, when knebel could be back. Low % on not being comfortable on multi-year.

 

I guess it could be one of those reasons you gave or maybe one that as tbbc said we just won’t know till he signs, and maybe not even then.

 

I think if we are being honest, the highest % reason by far would be the ownership’s budget, and wanting to and expecting to make a certain profit. Injuries or fatigue (Knebel Jeffress )graduation to the starting staff (Woodruff Burnes )be darned. “All in” really?

 

That picture a kid took with Mark A on Twitter where, according to the poster he asked Mark if we were going to get kimbrel and mark said we’re trying Now that I do believe he said.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Thanks for the response jmb.

Just for the record, I’ve never said brewers ownership is cheap. Atlanta > cheap. Pittsburgh > cheap.

 

Medicals? Very low % that’s the reason. For one thing, I don’t believe stearns would have been able to or wanted to spend what was being asked by Kimbrel’s camp at THAT time. I don’t believe they were close and therefore no medicals.

 

Personality, clubhouse? Low % that’s the reason, not gonna explain.

 

Regression? Do you really think that could be a legitimate reason? Velo > no change. Curve still devastating. Went thru some knebel like loss of command in the playoffs, but in all reality prob just a blip. So I’d say low % on regression.

 

Not comfortable with multi-year deal? Ok, maybe that’s it, but I would argue, since Stearns M/O is all about value, he would think to get kimbrel for LESS than wade davis would be a steal of a deal. Also could trade him after this year, or at next yrs deadline, when knebel could be back. Low % on not being comfortable on multi-year.

 

I guess it could be one of those reasons you gave or maybe one that as tbbc said we just won’t know till he signs, and maybe not even then.

 

I think if we are being honest, the highest % reason by far would be the ownership’s budget, and wanting to and expecting to make a certain profit. Injuries or fatigue (Knebel Jeffress )graduation to the starting staff (Woodruff Burnes )be darned. “All in” really?

 

That picture a kid took with Mark A on Twitter where, according to the poster he asked Mark if we were going to get kimbrel and mark said we’re trying Now that I do believe he said.

 

You are making so many rhetorical leaps and assumptions in this post that I don't even really know where to begin. You've created a narrative in your head of how you believe this has all happened, and you're refusing to allow for any variables, while also seemingly getting upset that other posters aren't on board with your narrative.

 

As I've mentioned to you before, this is not going to help you win any arguments. I've attempted to do that, and it's just made me look like a fool. I think other posters are just trying to help you see that there is quite possibly other variables in play other than the team being hamstrung by budget constraints.

[Brew crew 92]

Thanks for the response jmb.

Just for the record, I’ve never said brewers ownership is cheap. Atlanta > cheap. Pittsburgh > cheap.

 

Medicals? Very low % that’s the reason. For one thing, I don’t believe stearns would have been able to or wanted to spend what was being asked by Kimbrel’s camp at THAT time. I don’t believe they were close and therefore no medicals.

 

Personality, clubhouse? Low % that’s the reason, not gonna explain.

 

Regression? Do you really think that could be a legitimate reason? Velo > no change. Curve still devastating. Went thru some knebel like loss of command in the playoffs, but in all reality prob just a blip. So I’d say low % on regression.

 

Not comfortable with multi-year deal? Ok, maybe that’s it, but I would argue, since Stearns M/O is all about value, he would think to get kimbrel for LESS than wade davis would be a steal of a deal. Also could trade him after this year, or at next yrs deadline, when knebel could be back. Low % on not being comfortable on multi-year.

 

I guess it could be one of those reasons you gave or maybe one that as tbbc said we just won’t know till he signs, and maybe not even then.

 

I think if we are being honest, the highest % reason by far would be the ownership’s budget, and wanting to and expecting to make a certain profit. Injuries or fatigue (Knebel Jeffress )graduation to the starting staff (Woodruff Burnes )be darned. “All in” really?

 

That picture a kid took with Mark A on Twitter where, according to the poster he asked Mark if we were going to get kimbrel and mark said we’re trying Now that I do believe he said.

 

You are making so many rhetorical leaps and assumptions in this post that I don't even really know where to begin. You've created a narrative in your head of how you believe this has all happened, and you're refusing to allow for any variables, while also seemingly getting upset that other posters aren't on board with your narrative.

 

As I've mentioned to you before, this is not going to help you win any arguments. I've attempted to do that, and it's just made me look like a fool. I think other posters are just trying to help you see that there is quite possibly other variables in play other than the team being hamstrung by budget constraints.

 

Ok, other reasons possible. I can’t totally refute that.

[Mustang_51D]

 

3 @ 45

9 MIL THIS YEAR.

16 mil in 2020 and 17 in 2021

 

Backload 3 mil and prorated 1/6 of this year 3 mil

 

Then if Attanasio decides not to spend on kimbrel next yr we trade him

 

We get another JOSH HADER the rest of this year for 9 mil

 

WHY WOUDNT WE DO THIS DEAL?

 

As much as I love baseball, I never got used to these crazy sums for players. I mean, they're awesome and have reached their peak physical condition through grueling training, but they could literally buy each of the members of their family or team a house in Greece for the holidays with that much money. How do you even spend so much dough anyways?

[Madhawk23]

Is it safe to say that the Brewers are out of any Keuchel conversations now that they went out and picked up Gio? Guessing that's probably the case, but just curious what others think. Seems like we have a lot of SP candidates right now in Chacin, Davies, Woody, Burnes, Freddy, Chase, Gio, Jimmy (hopefully soon). Now, we just need most of these guys to step up their game and starting pitching well.

[JosephC]

Yes, I think it's safe to say that the Brewers are out on Keuchel. Even though Gonzalez is a pretty minimal investment, I don't think they would have brought him in if they had serious designs on obtaining Keuchel. I think Boras is dug in at a price-tag that is simply out of the Brewer's range, and if Keuchel waits until after the draft and still can't hit his price-tag, then he's either out for the year or drops the price-tag to a point where several teams express interest and then the Brewers probably don't want to be in that situation where they are bidding on him with limited funds when there will be other trade options available.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Interesting article on ESPN today regarding Keuchel - sounds like he feels like he knows what he should be worth and isn't budging on the number in his mind. Apparently he has turned down multiple offers presented to him by Boras because:

 

"I told him no on numerous deals because it's about principle," Keuchel said. "It's about fair market value. And I wasn't getting that."

 

"That's not me being greedy. That's just my compensation in the market from what the analytical data is telling me. I didn't come up with this. The front offices came up with this. So now they're trying to tell me I'm less than what the analytical data is saying. How is that possible?"

 

"My asking price and my due diligence is not just out of left field. It has come to me through my own career path, my own career numbers, and then what my market is valued at this point in time," he told the website. "To this point it hasn't been matched. It's been less than what it should be. And this is out of principle, what's going on right now. I can't speak for other players. It's a principle for me. I'm not asking for the world."

 

He might not be asking for the world, but he's apparently asking for more than what the market values him at - not sure how sitting out a season really changes that. not that draft pick compensation is truly a big deal when actually signing quality UFA, but at this point teams would be silly not to wait until after the draft so they don't lose a pick by signing Keuchel. There may be analytics that put a generally agreed-upon value to what Keuchel should get in free agency - but if there ain't team willing to pay it in a certain offseason, then that really isn't what the market will bear. Taking a stand for principle is great and all, but it's easy to forget that the year after he won the Cy Young in 2015, Keuchel turned down a $90M contract extension offered by the Astros. He instead opted to go the arbitration route those last 3 seasons with the Stros, earning roughly $30M.

[jerichoholicninja]

Dallas never has to work a day in his life again. If he's not absolutely in love with playing baseball and the grind of being a major leaguer, why not wait until you get what you want? I have no problem with these guys sitting out because no one's offering them what they want. His "principled stand" is giving guys who really want to play a shot at the majors, even if just for a handful of games.

[TURBO]

Dallas Keuchel told Tim Brown of Yahoo Sports that he's turned down "numerous deals."

 

The specifics of those offers are unclear, but Keuchel said his agent, Scott Boras, recommended that he seriously consider some of them. However, the southpaw said he rejected them on "principle" because he wasn't getting what he considers to be fair market value. He's rightfully frustrated at the system, but holding firm on his asking price. One hurdle to a potential deal is that Keuchel is attached to draft pick compensation, but that will no longer be the case once this year's draft takes place on June 3. There's always a chance that some team will jump in before that date, but it would be pretty surprising if he's on the market much longer after that. Keuchel, 31, put up a 3.74 ERA over 34 starts with the Astros last year and would help plenty of teams right now.

 

SOURCE: Yahoo.com

May 7, 2019, 1:28 PM ET

[adambr2]

Sorry, Dallas. Frustrating or not, your market value is whatever the market says it is.