Manny Pina drawing trade interest

[amt2138]

Might not be as accurate for a catcher but does Pina's value as a mainly defensive player take a hit if he is only a part time player?

 

We all know that defense sample sizes need to be pretty large to get a good read on a defender; even a season's worth of data sometimes isn't a big sample size. So with him at this moment looking like a 60 game catcher does he have more value to a team that would play him fulltime?

[Montezuma]

I am all for trading Manny to restock some players in AA & AAA.

[SandyTolan]

What if Manny is a significant but secondary piece in a bigger deal? Like, Knebel, Piña, Diplan + for Kluber? Maybe DS is thinking big.

[ougiqbxy]

What if Manny is a significant but secondary piece in a bigger deal? Like, Knebel, Piña, Diplan + for Kluber? Maybe DS is thinking big.

 

I was actually thinking Knebel and Pina for Xander Bogaerts. Fills two needs for the Red Sox....we try Bogaerts at 2B and is insurance for Arcia at SS.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

What if Manny is a significant but secondary piece in a bigger deal? Like, Knebel, Piña, Diplan + for Kluber? Maybe DS is thinking big.

 

I like your thinking!

[umpref]

You have to keep Pina unless blown away and the Nottingham is then your back up. Kratz should be a coach and Vogt even if healthy should go in the tv booth

[MrTPlush]

Didn’t Stearns learn the first time he traded a backup catcher?

 

Trading Maldonado was a questionable move at the time and it certainly ended up a solid fail on the report card. Especially competing now we should want a good backup catcher we can trust. Did last year not teach us anything? Kratz had some nice moments, but he and the rest of the cast sucked even more than the struggle bus Pina was.

[CheezWizHed]

the struggle bus Pina was.

 

Is that a typo or ??? I've never heard of a struggle bus. Is that a thing?

[MNBrew]

For as relatively little as he costs, the last thing Stearns should do is trade Pina. He won't net anything near a worthwhile return, and one Grandal injury leaves you with 39-year-old Kratz and our AAA guy in Nottingham as the major-league catching duo. Stearns has routinely shown he wants as much depth at good value as he can get. Trading Pina now would go completely counter to that heretofore very team-benefitting approach.

 

No doubt Pina's first half at the plate was definitely bad. Along with Arcia and the revolving 2B flavor of the day, the lineup (esp. in the first half) had several painful black holes below the #5 hitter. Pina was hitting below .200 in the first half and possibly when he came off the DL in July or whenever that was. Then...

 

To have his BA end up at .252 -- nearly a 60-point jump -- means overall he hit very well in the 2nd half (.295) -- he wasn't stellar overall for the year, but in spite of a not-good walk rate and unspectacular slugging, Pina's 2nd-half OPS was .756 which isn't to be scoffed at.

 

His biggest flaw over the year was his heinous failure w/ RISP (11-for-72 = .153/.217/.250) -- especially the fact that he was almost a guaranteed automatic out with the bases loaded (2-for-9 = .222/.182/.222 -- OUCH!). Of course most of the Brewers biggest power threats weren't great w/ RISP, especially in the 2nd half, so Pina had plenty of company on the naughty/inept list.

 

In summary, Pina's flaws are well-known, but he's still a decent catcher with several positives, not the least of which is that he's fairly cheap and has a few years of team control left. The likely drop-off from Pina to Kratz for only $400k in savings isn't worth the potential risks, esp. considering Grandal's very possibly playing elsewhere in 2020.

[adambr2]

Didn’t Stearns learn the first time he traded a backup catcher?

 

Trading Maldonado was a questionable move at the time and it certainly ended up a solid fail on the report card. Especially competing now we should want a good backup catcher we can trust. Did last year not teach us anything? Kratz had some nice moments, but he and the rest of the cast sucked even more than the struggle bus Pina was.

 

Maldonado was the same awful hitter after we traded him as he was here, he combined for about 2 total WAR in 3 seasons since the trade, and he cost about 7M for that time.

 

I really doubt Stearns is losing sleep over that one.

[Brewcrewin07]

All this fuss about Manny..he can't hit his way out of a paper bag..I'd give him up for pennies on the dollar..give me an offensive Catcher everyday of the week over a light hitting defensive catcher anyday of the week..And yes, I totally "get" the catcher position..I was one.

[OnTheBlack]

All this fuss about Manny..he can't hit his way out of a paper bag..I'd give him up for pennies on the dollar..give me an offensive Catcher everyday of the week over a light hitting defensive catcher anyday of the week..And yes, I totally "get" the catcher position..I was one.

 

 

So you'd get rid of him just to dump him? I don't think it'd be hard finding a team to just take him.

 

I also doubt we'd be able to find a much better offensive option, even if we neglected defense than what Pina has produced for us. .264/.320/.409 slash since he's been in Milwaukee is hardly as poor as you're suggesting, and that's ignoring the defense he brings.

[pacopete4]

I would be okay with them moving Pina in the right deal but I have been on the Pina as a backup catcher bandwagon for a while now. It is a perfect fit for the guy. He will still be an important piece to the team but won't (hopefully) need to be relied on to catch 100+ games. This should benefit all parties.

[yoshii8]

I'd like to keep Pina, as I believe he is one of the best backup C's out there, and for insurance in case of injury.

[Roderick]

.... and Vogt even if healthy should go in the tv booth

 

I figured retirement, but I heard Vogt on the radio say he is trying to find a team to latch on to (unless I misheard). If you trade away Pina (only for a good price), I could see Vogt as an option.

 

Grandal is going to be treated like a rented mule, I assume. So he is going to start 110 games. Vogt's noodle arm is probably even in worse shape than before, but there is less running nowadays. Not my first choice, but if he shows he can still hit enough, which at 34 may be a stretch .....

[brooks_quichenick]

All this fuss about Manny..he can't hit his way out of a paper bag..I'd give him up for pennies on the dollar..give me an offensive Catcher everyday of the week over a light hitting defensive catcher anyday of the week..And yes, I totally "get" the catcher position..I was one.

 

lol, where's your BBREF page so we can roast your stats since Manny is so bad

[TURBO]

I'd like to keep Pina, as I believe he is one of the best backup C's out there, and for insurance in case of injury.

 

100% agree with this.

 

As has been mentioned previously, the only way I'd want to trade him is if we got an offer that we simply could not refuse.

 

It's nice knowing that if Grandal goes down, we have a pretty darn decent guy for back-up.

 

No way do I want to go into the season with Kratz as the scheduled platoon/back up.

 

With Manny backing up, we have no reason to worry about the catcher position in 2019.

[MrTPlush]

Didn’t Stearns learn the first time he traded a backup catcher?

 

Trading Maldonado was a questionable move at the time and it certainly ended up a solid fail on the report card. Especially competing now we should want a good backup catcher we can trust. Did last year not teach us anything? Kratz had some nice moments, but he and the rest of the cast sucked even more than the struggle bus Pina was.

 

Maldonado was the same awful hitter after we traded him as he was here, he combined for about 2 total WAR in 3 seasons since the trade, and he cost about 7M for that time.

 

I really doubt Stearns is losing sleep over that one.

 

I didn't say he was, but it wasn't a very good move. We had a 40 year old trash heap revolving door the last two years competing when it came to back-up catchers. A solid defense guy like Maldonado would have been great, he is like Pina essentially.

 

Bandy, Susac, Vogt, Kratz, and Nottingham....that is beyond bad.

 

Of course he was probably trying to save a few million when we weren't expecting to compete...well, that didn't happen.

[FVBrewerFan]

Bandy, Susac, Vogt, Kratz, and Nottingham....that is beyond bad.

 

A little too much hyperbole there for my liking. Bandy was beyond bad. Susac was beyond beyond bad. But Vogt and Kratz were average to above avg backup catchers. Nottingham, we don't know what he will be yet.

[Zad Fnark]

Keep Manny, unless the Angels want to deal Trout straight up for him.

[adambr2]

Keep Manny, unless the Angels want to deal Trout straight up for him.

 

Where would Cain play?

[tdcarney22]

I'd like to keep Pina, as I believe he is one of the best backup C's out there, and for insurance in case of injury.

 

100% agree with this.

 

As has been mentioned previously, the only way I'd want to trade him is if we got an offer that we simply could not refuse.

 

It's nice knowing that if Grandal goes down, we have a pretty darn decent guy for back-up.

 

No way do I want to go into the season with Kratz as the scheduled platoon/back up.

 

With Manny backing up, we have no reason to worry about the catcher position in 2019.

 

We're not used to it here in Milwaukee because typically we're not a "Good" team....but this is what happens to "good teams" every spot on the 25-man has more and more value/talent. We need to keep Manny as backup C and put together the absolute best 25-40 man roster we can for the 2019 & 2020 and see what happens! After that, our window may close again briefly while we go through hopefully another small regrouping!

 

I'm hesitant to use the word "rebuild" if we still have DS at that point as he's worked quite a bit of magic in such a short time! But a small regrouping will likely be necessary by 2021 if this team hasn't achieved a WS ring!

[Humans Need Water]

All this fuss about Manny..he can't hit his way out of a paper bag..I'd give him up for pennies on the dollar..give me an offensive Catcher everyday of the week over a light hitting defensive catcher anyday of the week..And yes, I totally "get" the catcher position..I was one.

Cool - where'd you play college and which summer leagues around here?

 

And Pina's an above average offensive catcher while also being a great defender and thrower, which makes him an above average catcher overall. Literally all evidence out there shows this. That doesn't mean he can't be upgraded over. He just was but that now makes him one of the best backup catchers in the game. There are plenty of teams where Pina would be an huge upgrade from what they had, including the WS winning Red Sox. Speaking of not being able to hit their way out of a paper bag, Red Sox catching position slashed 194/246/533 last year.

[TooLiveBrew]

All this fuss about Manny..he can't hit his way out of a paper bag..I'd give him up for pennies on the dollar..give me an offensive Catcher everyday of the week over a light hitting defensive catcher anyday of the week..And yes, I totally "get" the catcher position..I was one.

Cool - where'd you play college and which summer leagues around here?

 

And Pina's an above average offensive catcher while also being a great defender and thrower, which makes him an above average catcher overall. Literally all evidence out there shows this. That doesn't mean he can't be upgraded over. He just was but that now makes him one of the best backup catchers in the game. There are plenty of teams where Pina would be an huge upgrade from what they had, including the WS winning Red Sox. Speaking of not being able to hit their way out of a paper bag, Red Sox catching position slashed 194/246/533 last year.

This is the second post calling out BCin07. Beyond just a general reminder for us all to maintain forum etiquette, I read BCin07's post as he's saying he understands that you can't be too dismissive of all the important defensive work a catcher needs to be good at... but he still prefers an offensive catcher even if you sacrifice some defense.

[Humans Need Water]

All this fuss about Manny..he can't hit his way out of a paper bag..I'd give him up for pennies on the dollar..give me an offensive Catcher everyday of the week over a light hitting defensive catcher anyday of the week..And yes, I totally "get" the catcher position..I was one.

Cool - where'd you play college and which summer leagues around here?

 

And Pina's an above average offensive catcher while also being a great defender and thrower, which makes him an above average catcher overall. Literally all evidence out there shows this. That doesn't mean he can't be upgraded over. He just was but that now makes him one of the best backup catchers in the game. There are plenty of teams where Pina would be an huge upgrade from what they had, including the WS winning Red Sox. Speaking of not being able to hit their way out of a paper bag, Red Sox catching position slashed 194/246/533 last year.

This is the second post calling out BCin07. Beyond just a general reminder for us all to maintain forum etiquette, I read BCin07's post as he's saying he understands that you can't be too dismissive of all the important defensive work a catcher needs to be good at... but he still prefers an offensive catcher even if you sacrifice some defense.

So I'm not allowed to ask him who or where he played?

 

Also, I have no idea how you interpreted what he said that way. Literally none because what he said was very straight forward. He said Pina was terrible offensively (and that he'll take an offense first catcher all day every day) and knows all this *because* he played catcher himself. Except him playing catcher is irrelevant and provides zero insight into his perspective/opinion not to mention there's zero information that suggests Pina is bad offensively (the eye test answers that without looking at anything else)