How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?

[KeithStone53151]

Regarding the Maryvale project, safe to assume that entire project was capitalized down to every piece of equipment inside the building...so there is probably very little impact to net income right now considering it was completed/in service in 2019.

This part is going to be almost impossible to know due to a few factors.

 

-I'm sure the Brewers are doing a cost segregation study on improvements to Maryvale. Some of the improvements will be able to be expensed on their own merits, and quite possibly in 2018.

-Some of the improvements to the existing structures could be bonus depreciation eligible, and quite possibly in 2018.

-However, due to the incredibly confused language in the tax law, there is significant conflict between depreciation, qualified business income (which is a whole other can of worms for sport franchise owners), and the business interest expense limitation. In short, there are a bunch of tax treatments the Brewers could opt for, depending on the nature of the improvements, the activity the improvements are related to, the tax status of the LLC members, and a number of other factors.

-I'm not sure if the Brewers are a calendar year or fiscal year entity.

 

Even beginning to guess what the organization's net profits are, taxable income, or anything else like that currently is not possible. The Brewers and their CPA firm(s) probably don't even know what it is yet.

 

I'd also suggest it may not matter a whole lot. The Brewers' owners are driven by a desire to increase the value of the franchise. If they think spending some extra money now will help them be able to sell at a much higher rate later, they'll spend the money.

 

Tax has never been my strong suit, I kinda squeaked by on that exam and didn't look at it much again. The other points are true as well, I was assuming most likely scenario. Though their fiscal year is an especially good point as it's probably very likely they are not calendar year.

 

I also especially liked your last point. With how much the value of the franchise has increased...banks would be lining up to write the Brewers a blank check if cash flow were ever an issue. So I completely agree, if they are all in on this year to get that first world series...I think they'd gladly spend the money even at risk of a loss.

[Brew crew 92]

Regarding the Maryvale project, safe to assume that entire project was capitalized down to every piece of equipment inside the building...so there is probably very little impact to net income right now considering it was completed/in service in 2019.

This part is going to be almost impossible to know due to a few factors.

 

-I'm sure the Brewers are doing a cost segregation study on improvements to Maryvale. Some of the improvements will be able to be expensed on their own merits, and quite possibly in 2018.

-Some of the improvements to the existing structures could be bonus depreciation eligible, and quite possibly in 2018.

-However, due to the incredibly confused language in the tax law, there is significant conflict between depreciation, qualified business income (which is a whole other can of worms for sport franchise owners), and the business interest expense limitation. In short, there are a bunch of tax treatments the Brewers could opt for, depending on the nature of the improvements, the activity the improvements are related to, the tax status of the LLC members, and a number of other factors.

-I'm not sure if the Brewers are a calendar year or fiscal year entity.

 

Even beginning to guess what the organization's net profits are, taxable income, or anything else like that currently is not possible. The Brewers and their CPA firm(s) probably don't even know what it is yet.

 

I'd also suggest it may not matter a whole lot. The Brewers' owners are driven by a desire to increase the value of the franchise. If they think spending some extra money now will help them be able to sell at a much higher rate later, they'll spend the money.

 

Last paragraph is very interesting to me. I would argue by investing more in payroll at the present time, would go a long way towards doing just that. I have no idea how much a World Series would add to the value of the franchise but if I had to guess I’d say min of 100+ million. I know the investment in payroll can’t guarantee a World Series but it can make it MORE likely to occur. Spend money to make money is highly appropriate in this scenario.

 

Brewers break even in Years of contention for the series

Brewers make their 20+ mil profit when not quite there

Brewers make massive profit in rebuild

[IIAY]

Brewers' opening day payroll officially just north of $130M, 14th highest of the 30 teams and about double that of the Pirates. It's likely been a while since the Brewers were in the top half of teams in payroll on opening day.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2019-mlb-opening-day-payrolls-red-sox-cubs-yankees-open-season-above-competitive-balance-tax-threshold/

 

EDIT: I guess not as long as would have thought, as they were 10th in 2012 at $97.6M.

 

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm#2011payroll

[Roderick]

Regarding the Maryvale project, safe to assume that entire project was capitalized down to every piece of equipment inside the building...so there is probably very little impact to net income right now considering it was completed/in service in 2019.

This part is going to be almost impossible to know due to a few factors.

 

-I'm sure the Brewers are doing a cost segregation study on improvements to Maryvale. Some of the improvements will be able to be expensed on their own merits, and quite possibly in 2018.

-Some of the improvements to the existing structures could be bonus depreciation eligible, and quite possibly in 2018.

-However, due to the incredibly confused language in the tax law, there is significant conflict between depreciation, qualified business income (which is a whole other can of worms for sport franchise owners), and the business interest expense limitation. In short, there are a bunch of tax treatments the Brewers could opt for, depending on the nature of the improvements, the activity the improvements are related to, the tax status of the LLC members, and a number of other factors.

-I'm not sure if the Brewers are a calendar year or fiscal year entity.

 

Even beginning to guess what the organization's net profits are, taxable income, or anything else like that currently is not possible. The Brewers and their CPA firm(s) probably don't even know what it is yet.

 

I'd also suggest it may not matter a whole lot. The Brewers' owners are driven by a desire to increase the value of the franchise. If they think spending some extra money now will help them be able to sell at a much higher rate later, they'll spend the money.

 

Last paragraph is very interesting to me. I would argue by investing more in payroll at the present time, would go a long way towards doing just that. I have no idea how much a World Series would add to the value of the franchise but if I had to guess I’d say min of 100+ million. I know the investment in payroll can’t guarantee a World Series but it can make it MORE likely to occur. Spend money to make money is highly appropriate in this scenario.

 

Brewers break even in Years of contention for the series

Brewers make their 20+ mil profit when not quite there

Brewers make massive profit in rebuild

 

There is no incentive to the majority owner to do anything extra now to build up the value of the franchise if there is no plan to sell in the next five years. And there was an article that I took the plan is to hand it down to his children anyway (MJS premium - so just going from headline).

 

Unless he still has so much debt that the interest rate would be decreased with a higher valuation. But I would hope by now that threshold of debt has been beaten down.

[Roderick]

Brewers' opening day payroll officially just north of $130M, 14th highest of the 30 teams and about double that of the Pirates. It's likely been a while since the Brewers were in the top half of teams in payroll on opening day.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2019-mlb-opening-day-payrolls-red-sox-cubs-yankees-open-season-above-competitive-balance-tax-threshold/

 

Not that it matters, I don't see how they come up with that number. Even if you add in Garza deferral, last year buyout money, Suter, etc.

 

My number is much closer to Cot's total of $123.4M - but even that number has Braun at $19M, but cash flow it is only $15M this year.

 

Edit: The article says they use Spotrac data. If you go to Spotrac page they don't list that much payroll for the Brewers either.

 

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league-central/milwaukee-brewers/

[IIAY]

Brewers' opening day payroll officially just north of $130M, 14th highest of the 30 teams and about double that of the Pirates. It's likely been a while since the Brewers were in the top half of teams in payroll on opening day.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2019-mlb-opening-day-payrolls-red-sox-cubs-yankees-open-season-above-competitive-balance-tax-threshold/

 

Not that it matters, I don't see how they come up with that number. Even if you add in Garza deferral, last year buyout money, Suter, etc.

 

My number is much closer to Cot's total of $123.4M - but even that number has Braun at $19M, but cash flow it is only $15M this year.

 

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league-central/milwaukee-brewers/

 

Not sure if this helps or not, but here is a blurb on the methodology used by the AP to get to the figures linked above:

 

Methodology: The AP's figures include salaries and prorated shares of signing bonuses and other guaranteed income for players on active rosters and injured lists and three players on the restricted list who otherwise would have been active or on the injured list.

[rickh150]

The more relatable question might be, "How much more money am I willing/allowed to spend on Brewers tickets."

[Brew crew 92]

If Haudricourt is right and brewers have a maxed pre-deadline payroll at 122, then Attanasio IS playing us. His comment of we’re “all in” and telling a fan “we’re trying” to land kimbrel are hollow “words”. They mean nothing. The brewerfan that compared Mark A to pt Barnum and then crushed for said comment was right. What would be closer to the truth would be the following:

 

Attanasio and his investors have a hard cap payroll and they not going to truly go “all in”and go past that cap. They have decided the pre-determined profit which conservatively IF you include last year’s playoff revenue north of 30 mil is firm.

 

It’s his team not ours and he can do with it what he wants. Spend whatever do whatever. It’s his business not ours.

 

Mark A just be honest.

Let me help you:

 

The brewers need to make a certain profit each and every year no matter the circumstances, injuries are a part of the game, and I expect my gm/pobo to overcome said injuries without upping our payroll any further.

 

Now that would be the truth. I would respect that, wouldn’t like it, but it is his team and he can do with it what he wants.

 

Now me, I’m a fan of the team. 35 yrs longer than Mark A actually, and when I see a World Series team - this year’s brewers- in a 2 week span lose 2 of the best closers in baseball, and have said owner use hollow words to string me along.......I’m going to speak the truth and call him out.

 

Maybe his son, who grew up a fan unlike his father, will be like a mike ilitch, and if givin similar circumstances say screw it and for ONE year say screw the yearly profit and let’s go win it.

[PeaveyFury]

I'll reiterate that you have a theory about what the team can/could do with payroll, but truly have no ACTUAL idea what their finances look like. Until we do, it's not a given that anyone is playing anyone.

[Brew crew 92]

I'll reiterate that you have a theory about what the team can/could do with payroll, but truly have no ACTUAL idea what their finances look like. Until we do, it's not a given that anyone is playing anyone.

 

Agree, people can decide for themselves.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If Haudricourt is right and brewers have a maxed pre-deadline payroll at 122, then Attanasio IS playing us. His comment of we’re “all in” and telling a fan “we’re trying” to land kimbrel are hollow “words”. They mean nothing. The brewerfan that compared Mark A to pt Barnum and then crushed for said comment was right. What would be closer to the truth would be the following:

 

Attanasio and his investors have a hard cap payroll and they not going to truly go “all in”and go past that cap. They have decided the pre-determined profit which conservatively IF you include last year’s playoff revenue north of 30 mil is firm.

 

It’s his team not ours and he can do with it what he wants. Spend whatever do whatever. It’s his business not ours.

 

Mark A just be honest.

Let me help you:

 

The brewers need to make a certain profit each and every year no matter the circumstances, injuries are a part of the game, and I expect my gm/pobo to overcome said injuries without upping our payroll any further.

 

Now that would be the truth. I would respect that, wouldn’t like it, but it is his team and he can do with it what he wants.

 

Now me, I’m a fan of the team. 35 yrs longer than Mark A actually, and when I see a World Series team - this year’s brewers- in a 2 week span lose 2 of the best closers in baseball, and have said owner use hollow words to string me along.......I’m going to speak the truth and call him out.

 

Maybe his son, who grew up a fan unlike his father, will be like a mike ilitch, and if givin similar circumstances say screw it and for ONE year say screw the yearly profit and let’s go win it.

 

Or maybe ... and stay with me here ... they've determined that Kimbrel is asking for way too much, and the production doesn't equal the cost. The team has a record payroll (by far actually), yet there are still fans complaining that they aren't spending more. This team has been a contender more often than it hasn't under Attanasio's ownership, yet we have fans that are calling him a cheap liar. I'm sorry, but that is just flat out wrong.

[Brew crew 92]

If Haudricourt is right and brewers have a maxed pre-deadline payroll at 122, then Attanasio IS playing us. His comment of we’re “all in” and telling a fan “we’re trying” to land kimbrel are hollow “words”. They mean nothing. The brewerfan that compared Mark A to pt Barnum and then crushed for said comment was right. What would be closer to the truth would be the following:

 

Attanasio and his investors have a hard cap payroll and they not going to truly go “all in”and go past that cap. They have decided the pre-determined profit which conservatively IF you include last year’s playoff revenue north of 30 mil is firm.

 

It’s his team not ours and he can do with it what he wants. Spend whatever do whatever. It’s his business not ours.

 

Mark A just be honest.

Let me help you:

 

The brewers need to make a certain profit each and every year no matter the circumstances, injuries are a part of the game, and I expect my gm/pobo to overcome said injuries without upping our payroll any further.

 

Now that would be the truth. I would respect that, wouldn’t like it, but it is his team and he can do with it what he wants.

 

Now me, I’m a fan of the team. 35 yrs longer than Mark A actually, and when I see a World Series team - this year’s brewers- in a 2 week span lose 2 of the best closers in baseball, and have said owner use hollow words to string me along.......I’m going to speak the truth and call him out.

 

Maybe his son, who grew up a fan unlike his father, will be like a mike ilitch, and if givin similar circumstances say screw it and for ONE year say screw the yearly profit and let’s go win it.

 

Or maybe ... and stay with me here ... they've determined that Kimbrel is asking for way too much, and the production doesn't equal the cost. The team has a record payroll (by far actually), yet there are still fans complaining that they aren't spending more. This team has been a contender more often than it hasn't under Attanasio's ownership, yet we have fans that are calling him a cheap liar. I'm sorry, but that is just flat out wrong.

 

Then why tell a fan we’re trying to get him? If that’s the case just say you’ve moved on.

 

Their payroll as a % of their revenue(now this is truly record- breaking, their revenue) isn’t record breaking. The payroll is, that’s all. There are much worse owners in baseball than Attanasio, but don’t play the fans, and say what’s really not true. Be honest.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If Haudricourt is right and brewers have a maxed pre-deadline payroll at 122, then Attanasio IS playing us. His comment of we’re “all in” and telling a fan “we’re trying” to land kimbrel are hollow “words”. They mean nothing. The brewerfan that compared Mark A to pt Barnum and then crushed for said comment was right. What would be closer to the truth would be the following:

 

Attanasio and his investors have a hard cap payroll and they not going to truly go “all in”and go past that cap. They have decided the pre-determined profit which conservatively IF you include last year’s playoff revenue north of 30 mil is firm.

 

It’s his team not ours and he can do with it what he wants. Spend whatever do whatever. It’s his business not ours.

 

Mark A just be honest.

Let me help you:

 

The brewers need to make a certain profit each and every year no matter the circumstances, injuries are a part of the game, and I expect my gm/pobo to overcome said injuries without upping our payroll any further.

 

Now that would be the truth. I would respect that, wouldn’t like it, but it is his team and he can do with it what he wants.

 

Now me, I’m a fan of the team. 35 yrs longer than Mark A actually, and when I see a World Series team - this year’s brewers- in a 2 week span lose 2 of the best closers in baseball, and have said owner use hollow words to string me along.......I’m going to speak the truth and call him out.

 

Maybe his son, who grew up a fan unlike his father, will be like a mike ilitch, and if givin similar circumstances say screw it and for ONE year say screw the yearly profit and let’s go win it.

 

Or maybe ... and stay with me here ... they've determined that Kimbrel is asking for way too much, and the production doesn't equal the cost. The team has a record payroll (by far actually), yet there are still fans complaining that they aren't spending more. This team has been a contender more often than it hasn't under Attanasio's ownership, yet we have fans that are calling him a cheap liar. I'm sorry, but that is just flat out wrong.

 

Then why tell a fan we’re trying to get him? If that’s the case just say you’ve moved on.

 

Their payroll as a % of their revenue(now this is truly record- breaking, their revenue) isn’t record breaking. The payroll is, that’s all. There are much worse owners in baseball than Attanasio, but don’t play the fans, and say what’s really not true. Be honest.

 

Well, I suppose in the whole history of Twitter, no one has ever told a lie. How do we know this fan is completely making up what Attanasio said to get traffic, clicks and followers? I mean, that kind of crap happens constantly.

[homer]

 

Then why tell a fan we’re trying to get him? If that’s the case just say you’ve moved on.

 

Their payroll as a % of their revenue(now this is truly record- breaking, their revenue) isn’t record breaking. The payroll is, that’s all. There are much worse owners in baseball than Attanasio, but don’t play the fans, and say what’s really not true. Be honest.

 

You are assuming the fan is telling the truth...or that Attanasio was truthful with the fan.

[pacopete4]

If Haudricourt is right and brewers have a maxed pre-deadline payroll at 122, then Attanasio IS playing us. His comment of we’re “all in” and telling a fan “we’re trying” to land kimbrel are hollow “words”. They mean nothing. The brewerfan that compared Mark A to pt Barnum and then crushed for said comment was right. What would be closer to the truth would be the following:

 

Attanasio and his investors have a hard cap payroll and they not going to truly go “all in”and go past that cap. They have decided the pre-determined profit which conservatively IF you include last year’s playoff revenue north of 30 mil is firm.

 

It’s his team not ours and he can do with it what he wants. Spend whatever do whatever. It’s his business not ours.

 

Mark A just be honest.

Let me help you:

 

The brewers need to make a certain profit each and every year no matter the circumstances, injuries are a part of the game, and I expect my gm/pobo to overcome said injuries without upping our payroll any further.

 

Now that would be the truth. I would respect that, wouldn’t like it, but it is his team and he can do with it what he wants.

 

Now me, I’m a fan of the team. 35 yrs longer than Mark A actually, and when I see a World Series team - this year’s brewers- in a 2 week span lose 2 of the best closers in baseball, and have said owner use hollow words to string me along.......I’m going to speak the truth and call him out.

 

Maybe his son, who grew up a fan unlike his father, will be like a mike ilitch, and if givin similar circumstances say screw it and for ONE year say screw the yearly profit and let’s go win it.

 

Or maybe ... and stay with me here ... they've determined that Kimbrel is asking for way too much, and the production doesn't equal the cost. The team has a record payroll (by far actually), yet there are still fans complaining that they aren't spending more. This team has been a contender more often than it hasn't under Attanasio's ownership, yet we have fans that are calling him a cheap liar. I'm sorry, but that is just flat out wrong.

 

Then why tell a fan we’re trying to get him? If that’s the case just say you’ve moved on.

 

Their payroll as a % of their revenue(now this is truly record- breaking, their revenue) isn’t record breaking. The payroll is, that’s all. There are much worse owners in baseball than Attanasio, but don’t play the fans, and say what’s really not true. Be honest.

 

You literally don’t know Jack-squat about what he’s willing to do or not. Stop attacking him on the basis of little to no facts that you try to bring up in every dang thread around here. MA has been a great owner for Milwaukee and if you’re blinded by the fact that he also is a business owner that wants to continue to build his wealth then I don’t knows what to tell ya. He’s not “playing” anyone. You fall over every word said by him, TomH or whoever else doesn’t agree with your agenda as to where YOU see the payroll or to how YOU think improvements shouldn’t be made to the club.

[Brew crew 92]

 

Then why tell a fan we’re trying to get him? If that’s the case just say you’ve moved on.

 

Their payroll as a % of their revenue(now this is truly record- breaking, their revenue) isn’t record breaking. The payroll is, that’s all. There are much worse owners in baseball than Attanasio, but don’t play the fans, and say what’s really not true. Be honest.

 

You are assuming the fan is telling the truth...or that Attanasio was truthful with the fan.

 

Correct that’s exactly what I’m assuming.

[sveumrules]

Their payroll as a % of their revenue(now this is truly record- breaking, their revenue) isn’t record breaking. The payroll is, that’s all.

 

There is no way for you to actually know this to be true unless you have a record of the Brewers yearly revenues to compare to their yearly payrolls.

 

Since you've stated this as fact, I will assume you do indeed have that information at your disposal, in which case I would be very curious for the Brewers top three seasons in terms of payroll as a percentage of revenue & also their bottom three seasons.

[PeaveyFury]

I'm sure the Brewers have a price in mind, and are keeping in touch with Kimbrel's people should he budge on his demands. Does that equal 'trying to get him'? Possibly, I'd guess. But there are a lot of unknowns.... do the Brewers want to keep flexibility for the deadline? Is Kimbrel willing to even take a short-term high AAV deal or not? Does he even want to play for Milwaukee? Are his medicals clean?

 

We don't know the answers to any of those questions. Anything on our end is pure speculation.

[Brew crew 92]

Their payroll as a % of their revenue(now this is truly record- breaking, their revenue) isn’t record breaking. The payroll is, that’s all.

 

There is no way for you to actually know this to be true unless you have a record of the Brewers yearly revenues to compare to their yearly payrolls.

 

Since you've stated this as fact, I will assume you do indeed have that information at your disposal, in which case I would be very curious for the Brewers top three seasons in terms of payroll as a percentage of revenue & also their bottom three seasons.

 

It’s all a guesstimate. And you know that it is.

 

All I’m going to say is if people really knew how much the revenue streams have EXPLODED for all teams not just the crew > shocking.

[PeaveyFury]

 

All I’m going to say is if people really knew how much the revenue streams have EXPLODED for all teams not just the crew > shocking.

 

Enlighten us. Please provide your backing data and you're more likely to convince people that your opinion is anything other than just that.

[sveumrules]

Their payroll as a % of their revenue(now this is truly record- breaking, their revenue) isn’t record breaking. The payroll is, that’s all.

 

There is no way for you to actually know this to be true unless you have a record of the Brewers yearly revenues to compare to their yearly payrolls.

 

Since you've stated this as fact, I will assume you do indeed have that information at your disposal, in which case I would be very curious for the Brewers top three seasons in terms of payroll as a percentage of revenue & also their bottom three seasons.

 

It’s all a guesstimate. And you know that it is.

 

All I’m going to say is if people really knew how much the revenue streams have EXPLODED for all teams not just the crew > shocking.

 

How much have they exploded? Without the figures your guesstimates are just speculation, far less valuable than objective information.

 

Even if they have exploded to a shocking degree, how much have operating costs increased over that same time frame?

 

For how firmly rooted you are in your position & the frequency with which you state it, I guess I just erroneously assumed you had the figures to back it up. My bad.

[Brew crew 92]

 

All I’m going to say is if people really knew how much the revenue streams have EXPLODED for all teams not just the crew > shocking.

 

Enlighten us. Please provide your backing data and you're more likely to convince people that your opinion is anything other than just that.

 

If people really want to get information all they have to do is google.

Take all of an hour or two or three. I promise it’s worth the time. And it is enlightening.

[sveumrules]

If people really want to get information all they have to do is google.

Take all of an hour or two or three. I promise it’s worth the time. And it is enlightening.

 

Since you've clearly already done the legwork yourself, please enlighten us.

[PeaveyFury]

 

All I’m going to say is if people really knew how much the revenue streams have EXPLODED for all teams not just the crew > shocking.

 

Enlighten us. Please provide your backing data and you're more likely to convince people that your opinion is anything other than just that.

 

If people really want to get information all they have to do is google.

Take all of an hour or two or three. I promise it’s worth the time. And it is enlightening.

 

If it's that easy to find, you should have no problems linking to it here....

[Brew crew 92]

The funny thing is(figure of speech only) a year ago I would have been angry if someone had been saying things about an owner that I held in awe too. I feel differently today. I took it upon myself to inform myself because I heard peter gammons say the brewers now a mid market team. His comment upset me at the time. I always had felt it was the Brewers against the baseball world. David vs Goliath. #30 the smallest of markets. He wasn’t referring to market size he was referring to revenue.

 

Do the research on your own like I did. And not just forbes from 2017. Keep going further, it’s fun and interesting.