2019 Brewers' pitching staff

[clancyphile]

Even with the possible regression of Chacin, the other four starters

Will be stronger thru health and experience. Starters go at least 10 deep. If Burnes and or woodruff in rotation, relief maybe slightly

Weaker initially but strengthened as year progresses with tremendous

Depth sorting itself out even more so than last year. Junior G, Wahl

Brown, Williams,Webb,perdono,Jackson,Deonis G,Albers,Claudio plus

Trade deadline acquisition if needed, should make bullpen as strong or

Stronger than last years pen

 

The way I see it, the Brewers' best bet is to start with

Rotation: Chacin, Anderson, Burnes, Peralta, Woodruff

Bullpen: Knebel, Jeffress, Hader, Claudio, Burnes, T. Williams, Guerra

 

Nelson and Davies are among those sent to AAA - better to get them to shake of the rust down there. As they get the rust off, maybe move Peralta or Woodruff to the pen and get one or both up. Or maybe someone becomes trade-bait.

 

 

Burnes is both starting and relief?

 

Meant Barnes for the pen... got that confused...

[clancyphile]

I'm just excited for the Cards and Cubs to drink some Haderaide.

 

Me? I wonder how the Red Sox will enjoy the Haderade in Fenway Park...

[Humans Need Water]

I see the rotation as locked in at Nelson, Chacin, Davies, Chase, Burnes barring injury or an additional arm acquired.

 

Pen being Hader, Knebel, Jeffress, Claudio, Albers, Woodruff, Guerra.

 

When they roll with 13 arms it's one of Peralta (if not filling in for someone in rotation), Barnes, Williams, Houser at first crack depending how the schedule breaks. Brown, Tomlin, Wahl will pitch at some point as well most likely.

[Brew crew 92]

I see the rotation as locked in at Nelson, Chacin, Davies, Chase, Burnes barring injury or an additional arm acquired.

 

Pen being Hader, Knebel, Jeffress, Claudio, Albers, Woodruff, Guerra.

 

When they roll with 13 arms it's one of Peralta (if not filling in for someone in rotation), Barnes, Williams, Houser at first crack depending how the schedule breaks. Brown, Tomlin, Wahl will pitch at some point as well most likely.

 

+1

 

Think Wahl gonna help us big time at some point, could be another high

Leverage knebel type pen arm. Another great trade by our president of

Baseball operations. Love that guy!

[Brew crew 92]

I see the rotation as locked in at Nelson, Chacin, Davies, Chase, Burnes barring injury or an additional arm acquired.

 

Pen being Hader, Knebel, Jeffress, Claudio, Albers, Woodruff, Guerra.

 

When they roll with 13 arms it's one of Peralta (if not filling in for someone in rotation), Barnes, Williams, Houser at first crack depending how the schedule breaks. Brown, Tomlin, Wahl will pitch at some point as well most likely.

 

This is how I see the pitching staff nearing half way point of ST.

 

Rotation: Anderson,Burnes,Chacin,Davies,Peralta

 

Pen: Knebel,Hader,Claudio,Albers,Guerra,Woodruff,Williams,Barnes

 

Shuttle: Petricka,Houser,Tomlin,Brown,Perdomo,Webb,Jackson,Wilkerson

 

Just read Nelson only pitching 1 inning on Monday so don’t think he’ll

be ready opening day.so he and Jeffress on IR to start the year. Think

We should sign Kimbrell to close or Gio for rotation and send peralta to

Pen.

[coolhandluke121]

Jeffress was clearly gassed for the playoffs last year but Counsell forced him out there anyway. Now his arm isn't right and he's throwing 85. Can you say Matt Harvey 2015? I love Counsell, but that was an unmitigated disaster. I'll never understand it.

[Brew crew 92]

Jeffress was clearly gassed for the playoffs last year but Counsell forced him out there anyway. Now his arm isn't right and he's throwing 85. Can you say Matt Harvey 2015? I love Counsell, but that was an unmitigated disaster. I'll never understand it.

 

 

80+ innings looks like it’s taken it’s toll. If he can’t be counted on this leaves pen in a tough spot. I believe our starting staff to be be much stronger than last year so that should help. But let’s be honest no Jeffress or an ineffective Jeffress hard to replace.Barnes,Williams,Houser not gonna do it. Burnes, Guerra or Woodruff might. Kimbrell would.

[Ennder]

Jeffress's best month of the entire season was Sept/Oct so this opinion is just flat out silly, you are reading what you want into things and defending it with results instead of reality. There was no sign at all that he was wearing down.

[clancyphile]

Jeffress's best month of the entire season was Sept/Oct so this opinion is just flat out silly, you are reading what you want into things and defending it with results instead of reality. There was no sign at all that he was wearing down.

 

Whatever is up with his shoulder... it's a concern.

 

There is depth... the Crew can obviously shift some folks around.

 

Woodruff can fill in as a relief pitcher.

 

Heck, maybe move Nelson to the pen this year. The Braves did that with Smoltz after an arm injury, and Smoltz later returned to the rotation.

[brewmann04]

I think Woodruff should be in the rotation and think Perelta could replace JJ

[502 to Right]

People really need to take a step back with the Nelson projections. We have no idea how he is going to progress.

[adambr2]

People really need to take a step back with the Nelson projections. We have no idea how he is going to progress.

 

Which is why most projections I've seen for him have been on the conservative side.

[Brew crew 92]

Jeffress's best month of the entire season was Sept/Oct so this opinion is just flat out silly, you are reading what you want into things and defending it with results instead of reality. There was no sign at all that he was wearing down.

 

Whatever is up with his shoulder... it's a concern.

 

There is depth... the Crew can obviously shift some folks around.

 

Woodruff can fill in as a relief pitcher.

 

Heck, maybe move Nelson to the pen this year. The Braves did that with Smoltz after an arm injury, and Smoltz later returned to the rotation.

 

Good points Clancy. I suppose we can move move people around but that weakens the starting staff. IMHO this team is one pitcher away from having THE best team in national league for SURE and it’s Kimbrell. We are so close to a World Series winning team, truly go all in, invest the $, sign him,win the series. Hoping Mark A. Reads BF.Net.

[coolhandluke121]

Jeffress's best month of the entire season was Sept/Oct so this opinion is just flat out silly, you are reading what you want into things and defending it with results instead of reality. There was no sign at all that he was wearing down.

 

No sign other than actually watching the game and seeing him labor in every single playoff appearance except one.

 

And the fact that this happened at over 75 innings pitched on the year, which is a rare amount for relievers and was already his career high by 8 innings and was his first year being a regular reliever who also often pitched in multiple frames in an appearance.

 

And the fact that it coincides with CC abandoning his philosophy of using the entire roster on the grounds that an average pitcher facing guys for the first time is often better than a superior but overworked pitcher facing them for the 2nd, 3rd, or even 4TH time in a short span. How did that work out with Puig again?

 

How about 5.8 walks per 9 innings in the playoffs, including walking a terrible backup catcher with the bases loaded?

 

Sure, he pitched well at the end of the regular season... and got worked into the ground in the process. That's the nature of overuse. You're fine until you're overworked. He wasn't overworked until the playoffs. His late season performance has literally nothing to do with the argument that he crossed the fatigue threshold at the very end. I didn't say he was fatigued at the end of the regular season, so why are you citing evidence that he wasn't? But that's when he peaked, and the signs of a letdown could not have been more obvious just a few games into the playoffs. CC completely ignored those signs. Very disappointing that they recognized the signs of Chase Anderson falling apart and benched him before he did, but couldn't do the same with JJ. And Anderson was a borderline ace in 2017.

 

And now his arm just isn't "right" despite (apparently) no evidence of structural damage.

 

How much more evidence of overuse do you want? It's a textbook case. Overwork is a nebulous thing that's hard to measure and therefore it's basically impossible to prove in the moment. You just have to go on common sense with regard to workload and performance. Maybe his velocity wasn't down in the playoffs, but that often doesn't happen until well after the overuse period.

[sveumrules]

JJ has been a full time MLB reliever for the last four years. He ranks 18th in games (264), 10th in innings (266) & 9th in runs allowed based WAR (7.6) over that time. The year before that in 2014 he threw 73 IP over 62 G between MLB/AAA. In 2012 he threw 72 IP over 51 G between AA/AAA/MLB.

 

Yes, he pitched a lot of high stress innings in 2018, but ultimately he's been throwing a baseball around 95 MPH for the last 15 years or so, eventually that catches up with everybody.

 

All you can really do is hope it's just the kind of overcomeable spring training hiccup that numerous pitchers have every year & if it's something worse than that hope for a speedy recovery.

[coolhandluke121]

JJ has been a full time MLB reliever for the last four years. He ranks 18th in games (264), 10th in innings (266) & 9th in runs allowed based WAR (7.6) over that time. The year before that in 2014 he threw 73 IP over 62 G between MLB/AAA. In 2012 he threw 72 IP over 51 G between AA/AAA/MLB.

 

Yes, he pitched a lot of high stress innings in 2018, but ultimately he's been throwing a baseball around 95 MPH for the last 15 years or so, eventually that catches up with everybody.

 

 

Could have been a long term thing, could have been short term. But his games and innings over the last 4 years just shows what I'm saying about him being overworked, because even in that role for years he didn't get as much use as last year. I mean, he was already on the high end for relievers before last year even started, and then he set a career high in innings and games before the playoffs even started. I don't remember him working over multiple innings on a regular basis like he did last year either.

 

Arm fatigue with no structural damage is pretty hard to prove or refute either way, but for someone to suggest it's silly and I just have an agenda and there's no evidence of it is kind of ridiculous. It would honestly be hard to imagine the evidence aligning more perfectly with the theory.

[Brew crew 92]

JJ has been a full time MLB reliever for the last four years. He ranks 18th in games (264), 10th in innings (266) & 9th in runs allowed based WAR (7.6) over that time. The year before that in 2014 he threw 73 IP over 62 G between MLB/AAA. In 2012 he threw 72 IP over 51 G between AA/AAA/MLB.

 

Yes, he pitched a lot of high stress innings in 2018, but ultimately he's been throwing a baseball around 95 MPH for the last 15 years or so, eventually that catches up with everybody.

 

 

Could have been a long term thing, could have been short term. But his games and innings over the last 4 years just shows what I'm saying about him being overworked, because even in that role for years he didn't get as much use as last year. I mean, he was already on the high end for relievers before last year even started, and then he set a career high in innings and games before the playoffs even started. I don't remember him working over multiple innings on a regular basis like he did last year either.

 

Arm fatigue with no structural damage is pretty hard to prove or refute either way, but for someone to suggest it's silly and I just have an agenda and there's no evidence of it is kind of ridiculous. It would honestly be hard to imagine the evidence aligning more perfectly with the theory.

 

How do we know for sure it’s “Arm Fatigue” and not structural damage of some sort. They said no need for tests “Right Now”. Why not do tests to know for sure what’s going on here with the shoulder. Don’t the brewers have multi million dollar state of the art science wing that I’m assuming has an MRI they can use. What am I missing here?

[coolhandluke121]

 

How do we know for sure it’s “Arm Fatigue” and not structural damage of some sort. They said no need for tests “Right Now”. Why not do tests to know for sure what’s going on here with the shoulder. Don’t the brewers have multi million dollar state of the art science wing that I’m assuming has an MRI they can use. What am I missing here?

 

I think it's because his comments were something to the effect that there's no pain or discomfort but his "body just isn't right". We can't know for sure but given his workload last year, his performance as his workload approached extremely rare levels, and his start to the spring, it sure supports the theory that he wore out his arm last year.

 

I get why people would say we don't know for sure, but I don't get how anyone can deny that the evidence strongly supports it. Someone accused me of having an agenda, but I think it's pretty clear that the people who still refuse to even entertain the possibility despite all the circumstantial evidence are the ones with the agenda. I'm sure most of them are the same people who supported JJ pitching over and over again against LAD despite all the signs that he was falling apart, and the same people who often complained that they didn't use Hader enough and finally forced an exasperated CC to say "look, he can't pitch 90 games, okay?"

[Warning Track Power]

Everything I have read says the rotation is Chacin-Anderson-Davies and two open spots between Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta. I am good with this as I think us fans tend to forget how good Davies can be when he is right. Looking at 2016-2017, Davies made 61 starts and pitched to a line of 3.93 ERA, 1.3 WHIP and a 4.07 FIP. Certainly not world beating but definitely worthy of a #4 or #5 spot in the rotation. Additionally, while we are all excited over the potential of Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta, Davies is only 26 and just 3 days older than Woodruff.

[coolhandluke121]

I definitely think they should give Davies and Anderson a chance this year. If nothing else, just see if you can get their trade value up before you give a spot in the rotation to a young guy with a possible innings limit.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Everything I have read says the rotation is Chacin-Anderson-Davies and two open spots between Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta. I am good with this as I think us fans tend to forget how good Davies can be when he is right. Looking at 2016-2017, Davies made 61 starts and pitched to a line of 3.93 ERA, 1.3 WHIP and a 4.07 FIP. Certainly not world beating but definitely worthy of a #4 or #5 spot in the rotation. Additionally, while we are all excited over the potential of Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta, Davies is only 26 and just 3 days older than Woodruff.

 

Can never have enough starting pitching. So many people are writing off Anderson and Davies after down years last year. Anderson put up arguably ace-type numbers in 2017, though, and Davies was a strong #2-3 starter. If those two can approach that production again, the starting staff is in a very good place.

[brewmann04]

I thinking very big Ifs for at least Anderson and Davies needs to stay healthy

[Brew crew 92]

Everything I have read says the rotation is Chacin-Anderson-Davies and two open spots between Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta. I am good with this as I think us fans tend to forget how good Davies can be when he is right. Looking at 2016-2017, Davies made 61 starts and pitched to a line of 3.93 ERA, 1.3 WHIP and a 4.07 FIP. Certainly not world beating but definitely worthy of a #4 or #5 spot in the rotation. Additionally, while we are all excited over the potential of Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta, Davies is only 26 and just 3 days older than Woodruff.

 

Can never have enough starting pitching. So many people are writing off Anderson and Davies after down years last year. Anderson put up arguably ace-type numbers in 2017, though, and Davies was a strong #2-3 starter. If those two can approach that production again, the starting staff is in a very good place.

 

I have zero concerns with their starting pitching. And IF Jeffress comes back and is throwing 95-97 again then I’ll have zero concern over the bullpen. I’ll stop beating the Kimbrell drum and give the brewers the benefit of doubt in regards to Jeffress. But if Jeffress isn’t right.....

[MrTPlush]

Everything I have read says the rotation is Chacin-Anderson-Davies and two open spots between Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta. I am good with this as I think us fans tend to forget how good Davies can be when he is right. Looking at 2016-2017, Davies made 61 starts and pitched to a line of 3.93 ERA, 1.3 WHIP and a 4.07 FIP. Certainly not world beating but definitely worthy of a #4 or #5 spot in the rotation. Additionally, while we are all excited over the potential of Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta, Davies is only 26 and just 3 days older than Woodruff.

 

Can never have enough starting pitching. So many people are writing off Anderson and Davies after down years last year. Anderson put up arguably ace-type numbers in 2017, though, and Davies was a strong #2-3 starter. If those two can approach that production again, the starting staff is in a very good place.

 

Even last year Anderson was pretty darn solid. Either people are way too spoiled about having some solid younger guys or they are way to fixated on a single stat (HRs). Bottom line Chase Anderson limits baserunners and many of the HRs are fairly harmless. What exactly is the difference between Davies letting guys round the bases with hits ( >9.0 H9 every year of his career) and Anderson giving up dingers? Actually I would argue Anderson giving up homers is somewhat beneficial considering giving up a run on one batter is way better than wasting pitches/energy on 2-3 batters. If Chase Anderson isn't one of our Top 5 pitchers when it is all said and done this year I would be really surprised and assume we acquired someone major at the deadline. Pretty solid backend guy at worst in my opinion. I'd bet on someone disappointing this year and being worse than Anderson.

 

Not sure on Davies though...feels like he is in the same boat, backend guy. Not sure when he was ever like a #2 or #3 starter.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Everything I have read says the rotation is Chacin-Anderson-Davies and two open spots between Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta. I am good with this as I think us fans tend to forget how good Davies can be when he is right. Looking at 2016-2017, Davies made 61 starts and pitched to a line of 3.93 ERA, 1.3 WHIP and a 4.07 FIP. Certainly not world beating but definitely worthy of a #4 or #5 spot in the rotation. Additionally, while we are all excited over the potential of Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta, Davies is only 26 and just 3 days older than Woodruff.

 

Can never have enough starting pitching. So many people are writing off Anderson and Davies after down years last year. Anderson put up arguably ace-type numbers in 2017, though, and Davies was a strong #2-3 starter. If those two can approach that production again, the starting staff is in a very good place.

 

Even last year Anderson was pretty darn solid. Either people are way too spoiled about having some solid younger guys or they are way to fixated on a single stat (HRs). Bottom line Chase Anderson limits baserunners and many of the HRs are fairly harmless. What exactly is the difference between Davies letting guys round the bases with hits ( >9.0 H9 every year of his career) and Anderson giving up dingers? Actually I would argue Anderson giving up homers is somewhat beneficial considering giving up a run on one batter is way better than wasting pitches/energy on 2-3 batters. If Chase Anderson isn't one of our Top 5 pitchers when it is all said and done this year I would be really surprised and assume we acquired someone major at the deadline. Pretty solid backend guy at worst in my opinion. I'd bet on someone disappointing this year and being worse than Anderson.

 

Not sure on Davies though...feels like he is in the same boat, backend guy. Not sure when he was ever like a #2 or #3 starter.

 

I know pitcher wins are not the be-all/end-all, but 17 wins and a 3.90 ERA in 2017 is more than solid. I'd take that from my #2-3 starter any year.