2019 Brewers' pitching staff

[Brew crew 92]

Good take jjfanec.

The post your referring to is Ender’s #1298, which I also agree with. Mostly agree with your take on our pitching staff, only thing I’d do different is keep Houser in the rotation, now that he’s finally stretched out I believe he can not only be a quality starter, but pitch deeper into games than Chase, who I would put into the pen when Gio comes back. Counsell won’t let Anderson go 3rd time thru, and that’s hurting the pen, so to the pen he should go.

[tmwiese55]

OK, got it and generally fine take. Cincy from 24th (and bad several years prior too) to 3rd. MKE from 5th to 16th. Quick note on Miley, remember he only pitched less than half the season last year and if anything that this coach got him from a washout with a 5-6 run ERA the previous 5 seasons back to a solid pitcher again is evidence for him, not as this is being spun like it was some massive talent infusion that he had here.

 

Yes, good to see the starters returning to form lately. I've said that in several posts. Lately they've been just fine, and really that's all our strategy was with these guys is to just be ok for 5ish innings and then get us to the pen alive. Plus Gio should be back soon to add in some fashion. Problem is the pen has just been brutal outside of 1 guy. I'm kind of torn, off the top of my head BC92 take on Houser continuing to start is what I think I'd like as you can at least see the upper end potential there. However, he also profiles much better in that Burns/Woodruff role form last year than a Gio/Anderson type would. Basically that those control soft tosser types seem really only like starters to me whereas a hard thrower like Houser is more dangerous in the pen than those guys. I see either direction and won't blame them, but I guess I'd go back to Houser in the pen as we really need help there badly.

[Brew crew 92]

OK, got it and generally fine take. Cincy from 24th (and bad several years prior too) to 3rd. MKE from 5th to 16th. Quick note on Miley, remember he only pitched less than half the season last year and if anything that this coach got him from a washout with a 5-6 run ERA the previous 5 seasons back to a solid pitcher again is evidence for him, not as this is being spun like it was some massive talent infusion that he had here.

 

Yes, good to see the starters returning to form lately. I've said that in several posts. Lately they've been just fine, and really that's all our strategy was with these guys is to just be ok for 5ish innings and then get us to the pen alive. Plus Gio should be back soon to add in some fashion. Problem is the pen has just been brutal outside of 1 guy. I'm kind of torn, off the top of my head BC92 take on Houser continuing to start is what I think I'd like as you can at least see the upper end potential there. However, he also profiles much better in that Burns/Woodruff role form last year than a Gio/Anderson type would. Basically that those control soft tosser types seem really only like starters to me whereas a hard thrower like Houser is more dangerous in the pen than those guys. I see either direction and won't blame them, but I guess I'd go back to Houser in the pen as we really need help there badly.

 

I totally get the Houser to the pen idea, statistically speaking and eye test shows he dominated out of the pen. And the pen does need help. But, I’m assuming Stearns gets bullpen help @ the deadline, allowing for Houser to remain in the rotation, and Anderson, by my eyes, looked good out of the pen, with his FB at 95+. But the biggest reason for me is Counsell, and his refusal to allow Chase to go 3rd time thru no matter how well he’s pitching, which hurts the pen. I like Chase in the rotation too, but CC’s stubborn, irritating refusal to let chase pitch, seals his fate, to me at least.

[jjfanec]

OK, got it and generally fine take. Cincy from 24th (and bad several years prior too) to 3rd. MKE from 5th to 16th. Quick note on Miley, remember he only pitched less than half the season last year and if anything that this coach got him from a washout with a 5-6 run ERA the previous 5 seasons back to a solid pitcher again is evidence for him, not as this is being spun like it was some massive talent infusion that he had here.

 

Yes, good to see the starters returning to form lately. I've said that in several posts. Lately they've been just fine, and really that's all our strategy was with these guys is to just be ok for 5ish innings and then get us to the pen alive. Plus Gio should be back soon to add in some fashion. Problem is the pen has just been brutal outside of 1 guy. I'm kind of torn, off the top of my head BC92 take on Houser continuing to start is what I think I'd like as you can at least see the upper end potential there. However, he also profiles much better in that Burns/Woodruff role form last year than a Gio/Anderson type would. Basically that those control soft tosser types seem really only like starters to me whereas a hard thrower like Houser is more dangerous in the pen than those guys. I see either direction and won't blame them, but I guess I'd go back to Houser in the pen as we really need help there badly.

 

True on Miley to an extent but Miley actually started throwing his cutter at the end of the season before and worked on it all off season. That wasn't DJ who did that.

 

In July Cincy has an Era right about the Brewers. They actually use a very similar pitching strategy. Starters don't go deep. Almost the exact same innings per start for both teams as a result both teams are in the bottom third of quality starts.

 

This brewers tean was just crushed by Burnes being awful, Knebel getting hurt, and Jeffress injury/regression. If only one of those three happen I think they are OK. They just didn't have the depth and had too much faith in their guys to improve/repeat performances. I mean they added nothing but Claudio from last year and lost Miley, Soria and then Knebel to injury and expected the young guys to step up.

[tmwiese55]

Remember Cincy just had 3 games at Col to skew small sample July. But yea, still wouldn't surprise at all of Cincy slowly falls to middle of the pack. They just don't have much talent there outside Castillo. Well I guess Gray too if he's fixed him, but again that's a positive thing for him if he has.

 

Someone else pointed out here recently the runs saved stats this year vs the last couple. That could be a key part to what he was doing well in regards to pitching to the D regardless of the blah talent he's had at both stops. And getting good results in spite of seemingly not drastic individual pitching improvements.

 

ETA: Note that I'm not trying to say Hook is horrible and doesn't deserve a chance, heck he could be fine/ok/average, might get better and better. Essentially I don't have an opinion on him. I'm more trying to say I think DJ is above and beyond, possibly the best in the league or at least top few.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

@AdamMcCalvy

2m2 minutes ago

More

Gio Gonzalez is rejoining the Brewers rotation on Saturday. Adrian Houser back to the bullpen.

 

@Todd_Rosiak

2m2 minutes ago

More

Jimmy Nelson will begin a minor-League rehab stint Sunday at Class A Wisconsin. Will remain as a reliever.

 

Both of these tidbits are great news. While I really like Houser's future as a starter, he was nails out of the pen. Nelson is obviously more of a crapshoot, but how awesome would it be to see him come back and be a solid contributor out of the pen during the stretch run? I know his starts weren't great this year, but he seemed to be pretty effective in the first couple innings nearly every time out before losing his command. Perhaps getting used out of the pen will allow him to let it fly a bit more?

[brewmann04]

Maybe Nelson will close down the road Joe ? But I agree what you said about Houser but now and for the future.

[tmwiese55]

Houser to the pen and say they trade for two reliable guys, all of a sudden we go from 1 guy to 4 in the pen. Massive difference. Plus JJ is OK, even if not what he was last year. So maybe better phrasing would be like 1.5 to 4.5, haha. Really that should help a ton and being they're still right in the race anything can happen.

[Brew crew 92]

@AdamMcCalvy

2m2 minutes ago

More

Gio Gonzalez is rejoining the Brewers rotation on Saturday. Adrian Houser back to the bullpen.

 

@Todd_Rosiak

2m2 minutes ago

More

Jimmy Nelson will begin a minor-League rehab stint Sunday at Class A Wisconsin. Will remain as a reliever.

 

Both of these tidbits are great news. While I really like Houser's future as a starter, he was nails out of the pen. Nelson is obviously more of a crapshoot, but how awesome would it be to see him come back and be a solid contributor out of the pen during the stretch run? I know his starts weren't great this year, but he seemed to be pretty effective in the first couple innings nearly every time out before losing his command. Perhaps getting used out of the pen will allow him to let it fly a bit more?

 

I’m probably the only one that’s gonna boo this move, but I get it. I also believe there’s a possibility of Jimmy being a real weapon out of the pen, but it’s gonna be all about his command of his pitches. I also think, one pen arm acquisition would be the max now, imo, with The aforementioned info.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

@AdamMcCalvy

2m2 minutes ago

More

Gio Gonzalez is rejoining the Brewers rotation on Saturday. Adrian Houser back to the bullpen.

 

@Todd_Rosiak

2m2 minutes ago

More

Jimmy Nelson will begin a minor-League rehab stint Sunday at Class A Wisconsin. Will remain as a reliever.

 

Both of these tidbits are great news. While I really like Houser's future as a starter, he was nails out of the pen. Nelson is obviously more of a crapshoot, but how awesome would it be to see him come back and be a solid contributor out of the pen during the stretch run? I know his starts weren't great this year, but he seemed to be pretty effective in the first couple innings nearly every time out before losing his command. Perhaps getting used out of the pen will allow him to let it fly a bit more?

 

I’m probably the only one that’s gonna boo this move, but I get it. I also believe there’s a possibility of Jimmy being a real weapon out of the pen, but it’s gonna be all about his command of his pitches. I also think, one pen arm acquisition would be the max now, imo, with The aforementioned info.

 

I don't think there's much reason to boo the move. Woodruff followed a very similar path last season, bouncing between the rotation, pen and AAA, before finding a home in the pen in August, and turning into a shut-down reliever that had a huge part in catapulting the team into the playoffs. Obviously we've all seen how he's been able to build off his success last year and become a high-end starter this season.

 

Now Houser may not have the high-end stuff Woodruff brings to the table, as few do. But it's pretty dang close, and he has the chance to truly be a difference maker out of the pen for the rest of this season.

[brewmann04]

They can always move Houser back into the rotation if one of the starters stumble.

[MillerParkSouth]

A little disappointed about moving Houser back to the pen, felt like he was starting to really show something in the rotation. Hopefully he gets another crack at it in the spring.

[FVBrewerFan]

Good take jjfanec.

The post your referring to is Ender’s #1298, which I also agree with. Mostly agree with your take on our pitching staff, only thing I’d do different is keep Houser in the rotation, now that he’s finally stretched out I believe he can not only be a quality starter, but pitch deeper into games than Chase, who I would put into the pen when Gio comes back. Counsell won’t let Anderson go 3rd time thru, and that’s hurting the pen, so to the pen he should go.

 

Actually, Anderson has reached the 3rd time through the line-up in EIGHT of his starts this year. To be fair, he's on a very short leash after the 2nd timed through. It's not just an Anderson thing though, it applies to all the starters. But Anderson carries a lot more history with him than some of the younger starters, so the data is there to be very careful with him after 2nd time through. That's just smart.

 

The key will be 2 out of Peralta, Burnes, Houser need to step up and pitch very well down the stretch. If they do that, we will see more of what you (and others) have brought up before. Formula would be solid 5 inning starts, then 2-3 innings from Peralta, Burnes, Houser, bridge to Jeffress and/or Hader. (Or mop-up guy depending on game situation.) That's not a piggy-back or tandem, etc. Just more games where the long relievers get involved.

 

Easier said than done though. Rotation has to deliver a lot more "Brewer Quality Starts" which is 5 innings/2 runs. And then you need the young long relievers to be consistently really good. No more time for anyone to "work it out." Do all of that, and they still have t probably trade for another late inning reliever. So it's possible for the pitching staff to be good enough, just need a lot of dominos to fall the right way.

[Brew crew 92]

Good take jjfanec.

The post your referring to is Ender’s #1298, which I also agree with. Mostly agree with your take on our pitching staff, only thing I’d do different is keep Houser in the rotation, now that he’s finally stretched out I believe he can not only be a quality starter, but pitch deeper into games than Chase, who I would put into the pen when Gio comes back. Counsell won’t let Anderson go 3rd time thru, and that’s hurting the pen, so to the pen he should go.

 

Actually, Anderson has reached the 3rd time through the line-up in EIGHT of his starts this year. To be fair, he's on a very short leash after the 2nd timed through. It's not just an Anderson thing though, it applies to all the starters. But Anderson carries a lot more history with him than some of the younger starters, so the data is there to be very careful with him after 2nd time through. That's just smart.

 

The key will be 2 out of Peralta, Burnes, Houser need to step up and pitch very well down the stretch. If they do that, we will see more of what you (and others) have brought up before. Formula would be solid 5 inning starts, then 2-3 innings from Peralta, Burnes, Houser, bridge to Jeffress and/or Hader. (Or mop-up guy depending on game situation.) That's not a piggy-back or tandem, etc. Just more games where the long relievers get involved.

 

Easier said than done though. Rotation has to deliver a lot more "Brewer Quality Starts" which is 5 innings/2 runs. And then you need the young long relievers to be consistently really good. No more time for anyone to "work it out." Do all of that, and they still have t probably trade for another late inning reliever. So it's possible for the pitching staff to be good enough, just need a lot of dominos to fall the right way.

 

Lots of interesting idea’s.

Agree that 2 of Houser Peralta Burnes need to pitch well down the stretch. If Stearns adds a Starter(Ray?Stroman?Wheeler?MadBum?)And an experienced late inning pen arm, this will be a staff with ridiculous amounts of options, and could be dominant going into the playoffs.

[Roderick]

Remember Cincy just had 3 games at Col to skew small sample July. But yea, still wouldn't surprise at all of Cincy slowly falls to middle of the pack. They just don't have much talent there outside Castillo. Well I guess Gray too if he's fixed him, but again that's a positive thing for him if he has.

 

Someone else pointed out here recently the runs saved stats this year vs the last couple. That could be a key part to what he was doing well in regards to pitching to the D regardless of the blah talent he's had at both stops. And getting good results in spite of seemingly not drastic individual pitching improvements.

 

ETA: Note that I'm not trying to say Hook is horrible and doesn't deserve a chance, heck he could be fine/ok/average, might get better and better. Essentially I don't have an opinion on him. I'm more trying to say I think DJ is above and beyond, possibly the best in the league or at least top few.

 

 

Cincy home park factor is 1.072 #8 and Miller Park is 1.026 #15.

[tmwiese55]

Yup. Kinda surprising MP is #15 in that considering it's viewed so hitter friendly. We all know Cincy is considered hitter friendly pretty much since it opened. It was one of the things that surprised me when he left. Essentially I thought, 'wait he's leaving to take over a bad staff in a bangbox park, what?'. Then I read how he's from the area and it made sense.

[MrTPlush]

Really? Taking Anderson out of the rotation cause he won't let him go deep into games? You think Counsell is going to give any longer of a leash to unproven Houser? Yah, I doubt it.

 

This staff needs consistency over someone who is going to average 5.1 innings vs. 5.0 innings.

[pacopete4]

Anderson is rounding back to form. It’s been awesome to see. Shouldn’t have been jacked around to begin with.

[JohnBriggs12]

Peralta's fastball was sitting at 96-97 yesterday. In a way he's comparable to Knebel. He's effective if he commands his fastball but when he does that and he can drop in his curve with 2 strikes, the hitter has no chance. Another year of his body maturing and I could see him bumping up to Knebel's 97-99.

[B-Train]

Peralta's fastball was sitting at 96-97 yesterday. In a way he's comparable to Knebel. He's effective if he commands his fastball but when he does that and he can drop in his curve with 2 strikes, the hitter has no chance. Another year of his body maturing and I could see him bumping up to Knebel's 97-99.

 

Good comp. What a luxury to have another guy in the pen with that type of ability. Seems to have the talent - would be great to see it realized as a Brewer, whether as a starter or reliever.

[Ennder]

Yup. Kinda surprising MP is #15 in that considering it's viewed so hitter friendly. We all know Cincy is considered hitter friendly pretty much since it opened. It was one of the things that surprised me when he left. Essentially I thought, 'wait he's leaving to take over a bad staff in a bangbox park, what?'. Then I read how he's from the area and it made sense.

 

Miller Park is home run friendly but it also inflates strike outs significantly so they somewhat offset. Probably something to do with the crazy shadows and the questionable batters eye.

[jjfanec]

Does Chris Hook start getting any credit for the run this starting pitching staff is on? Maybe it is hard to give him credit when the bullpen is awful at the same time. It really is impressive though how the starters have pitched.

[jjfanec]

Has it been poster here that the Brewers think there is a chance Bobby Wahl and Suter could both pitch this year? Long shots I know but could definitely provide some help. Wahl for sure as a reliever and since he isn't rehabbing an arm injury

 

https://www.mlb.com/brewers/news/injured-brewers-pitchers-visit-team-at-chase-field

[Boomer5]

Does Chris Hook start getting any credit for the run this starting pitching staff is on? Maybe it is hard to give him credit when the bullpen is awful at the same time. It really is impressive though how the starters have pitched.

 

The issue really isn’t that Hook is a bad pitching coach, it’s that DJ was so good.

 

Even had we tripled his salary, he still would have been worth it. Market inefficiency is how little coaching pay is vs their impact.

[Jopal78]

I find the pining for Derek Johnson interesting. He couldn’t do anything with Garza who was actually decent before DJ arrived. Ditto, Wily Peralta, Taylor Jungmann and Michael Blazek. If he’s going to get all the credit for having good pitching staffs in 2017, 2018 and 2019 you should also heap the blame on him for failing to get more out of Garza and top rated prospects Wily Peralta and Taylor Jungmann.

 

Or maybe those guys simply weren’t any good and an MLB coach has a limited impact on a player’s success or failure. .