2019 Brewers' pitching staff

[FVBrewerFan]

There's far more to it than the pitching coach. You have advanced scouts, analytics people, catchers, etc. meet before every series to walk through how to pitch opposing batters. How much of this is on the pitching coach? Who knows.

 

But outside of the 3 young guns, what evidence is there that Johnson was any better? In fact, when Woodruff was a starter early last season he wasn't any good either. Johnson had the luxury of using these guys in short spurts out of the pen. Peralta I suppose you could point to. He had mixed results as a starter last year, but at least some starts were exceptional. I have no doubt the pitching coach is a factor, just so hard to prove how much.

 

I will say what we're seeing is more of an organizational failing than anything else. They let them go through the system with nothing more than FB/slider and then wonder why they can't get MLB hitters out, especially more than once. I would be drafting guys with a plus change or curve, and hire the best coach I could find that knows how to teach throwing a change-up. Then require each pitcher throw it 25% of the time every single outing. You can't just bring limited guys up like this and then say "it's your fault MLB pitching coach."

[tmwiese55]

True. I hope I don't come off as acting like the pitching coach is everything and 100% to blame or responsible, just saying having a good one certainly helps. Thing is Burnes and Woodruff have those pitches but they're not throwing them. Issue of course is that sure they have them, but if they aren't good enough then it's the same as not having them at all. I guess I'm of the opinion chances are you're still better off throwing them than not since MLB hitters will just figure out FBs. Or at least what they're doing now isn't working, so why wouldn't you try something a bit different. And Burnes was hyped through his coming up as having the multi pitch arsenal, then all of a sudden he's only allowed to throw 2 pitches.

 

I just don't know how much a pitching coach can affect the lack of location on almost every players FB right now, they're just not hitting spots. I guess coach helps with mechanics and all, but still a MLB player should be able to locate a FB somewhat consistently. I'd guess the biggest help is the gameplan, pitch selections, plan of attack to each hitter, etc.

[Brew crew 92]

 

I have zero concern with our rotation, depth and upside best it’s been in a long time maybe ever. We have 7 above ave starters with 2-4 potential TOR in my opinion. Which should bode well this deadline hopefully not needing that expensive starter.

 

 

Concerned yet?

 

There are a LOT of posts that did not age well in this thread... including my own. I doubted the starting rotation, but thought we had enough arms in the pen to hide a few flaws. Neither side of the pen/rotation argument turned out well, and I don't think anyone saw it coming where both sucked this deep into the season.

 

Right now we really need Anderson to return to the rotation when healthy, and getting a good Jimmy Nelson back would help as well, but man did every possible regression candidate happen so far.

 

Not concerned with the rotation.

 

Burnes Peralta terrible in the rotation, that’s been remedied by their removal.

 

Nelson/Woodruff,Anderson,Chacín, Gio, Davies better than what we had last year, good enough to win.

 

Bullpen is not strong, but with Burnes joining it now and Woodruff likely when Nelson ready, has potential to be a strength sooner rather than later. Mix in a Soria or BETTER trade acquisition @ deadline, callup ( Rasmussen )? ( houser, brown )? Peralta ? Jeffress improvement, this pen could rival last year’s playoff pen last 2 months.

 

And yes my predictions didn’t even make it thru the first month without looking silly ridiculous.

 

Burnes is a long way from tor

Peralta even longer

Woodruff could break out next year

Nelson > will lead this staff and be our ace

[Surhoff5]

I can certainly see giving DJ credit for helping Cinci's pitching staff turn it around...albeit in a very small sample size.

 

However, for the Brewers, all of these guys worked with DJ last year. So if he taught them pitch sequencing, different pitch types, or certain types of mechanics, wouldn't they be able to retain that information? Chacin is a vet, Anderson is a vet, Davies is a vet. I am sure they can tell when their mechanics are off. Couldn't they help the young guys if they didn't retain what he taught/showed them?

 

I am not saying there is no direct correlation, but I guess I am just questioning how they could lose all the information he passed along?

[Oxy]

There is a lot of panicking going on today/this week.

 

The overall numbers for the pitching staff have obviously been bad, which leads to a lot of grand statements thinking that the sky is falling.

 

 

The reality of the matter is that "the pitching staff" doesn't pitch tomorrow. Brandon Woodruff pitches tomorrow.

 

It would be much worse if we were paying a staff full of veterans $100 million and they were performing like this, and all we could do was watch them and hope for improvement from those dozen guys. Instead, we've been cycling through a lot of young talented arms--all of whom have pitched poorly in a tiny sample size. In aggregate, it doesn't seem like a tiny sample size, but the aggregate pitching staff doesn't pitch tomorrow. Brandon Woodruff pitches tomorrow. And then Guerra and then Hader, who've both been outstanding (in a tiny sample size...) Chase Anderson was supposed to pitch yesterday. If he had put up 6 strong innings and they got a nice 5-2 win or something like that, the entire tenor of the "2019 Brewers' pitching staff" would be completely different.

 

Let's wait till flag day to panic.

[wntrtxn21]

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=2811251

 

Today DRA (Deserved Run Average) finally became available on Baseball Prospectus; it needs to collect a few weeks of data first as it factors in quality of opposition and such things. It's noteworthy because of all the publicly available metrics it has the best predictive value, the highest consistency, and it also reaches that point based on much smaller samples than other metrics. I'd say the last one is the most important at this point.

 

Anyway, it's not gospel or infallible or anything, just another (rather good) data set to take into account. But it's suggesting that based on how the team has been pitching, the results normally would have been better. And thus, continuing to do what they've done would see the pitching staff as an about middle of the road staff (16th) overall. Which is worse than we'd like, but take into account the following too: Brewers have used 20 pitchers, the 10 best contributors by DRA are all on the current roster. And that this isn't an old decrepit staff, there was nothing to suggest that Chacin was suddenly that 6+ ERA guy, that Jacob Barnes is suddenly 2 runs worse than in the past, or that even Alex Wilson has gone from a career 3.44 ERA to 9.53. In other words, the perfomance so far can better be described as "meh" rather than "awful". And that getting a better picture of who will or will not best help us out, adding some new blood (Gio, Jeffress, hopefully a healthy Nelson soon), and some talented guys hopefully figuring some things out (Burnes, Peralta) should see better underlying performance, and thus better run prevention, going forward.

 

TL;DR: April stats don't tell us much of value, less than stats in any other month of the year does. DRA is better at cutting through the noise, and in doing so better at predicting the future.

 

Please don't put much emphasis on something so subjective as DRA. DRA even takes into account someone's opinion of the umpire, the catcher calling the game and framing, temp., someone's opinion of the park, the team's defense, etc.... Because there are far too many variables based on opinion, not fact, DRA is in the eye of the beholder.

[JosephC]

There's far more to it than the pitching coach. You have advanced scouts, analytics people, catchers, etc. meet before every series to walk through how to pitch opposing batters. How much of this is on the pitching coach? Who knows.

 

But outside of the 3 young guns, what evidence is there that Johnson was any better? In fact, when Woodruff was a starter early last season he wasn't any good either. Johnson had the luxury of using these guys in short spurts out of the pen. Peralta I suppose you could point to. He had mixed results as a starter last year, but at least some starts were exceptional. I have no doubt the pitching coach is a factor, just so hard to prove how much.

 

I will say what we're seeing is more of an organizational failing than anything else. They let them go through the system with nothing more than FB/slider and then wonder why they can't get MLB hitters out, especially more than once. I would be drafting guys with a plus change or curve, and hire the best coach I could find that knows how to teach throwing a change-up. Then require each pitcher throw it 25% of the time every single outing. You can't just bring limited guys up like this and then say "it's your fault MLB pitching coach."

 

This is kind of what I am wondering. Did Johnson look so good because other decision-makers came to him and said "let's put Burnes in the rotation" and Johnson said "no, bullpen him." Or is Johnson just a mechanics wizard that will consistently get the best performances out of his pitchers?

 

I'm still wondering if the Brewers just screwed it up by assigning the wrong role in just about every single case where there was a decision to make. At least Woodruff has looked a little better in two of his last three starts, but his history shows that he has been a far, far, far better MLB pitcher as a reliever. Anderson began the year in the pen after having been a starter for most of his career, and the couple times he started he's looked far more effective. Guerra has done good work out of the pen, but with the struggles of the three young starters, maybe the Brewers should have done what Guerra's done most of his career and pitch him as part of the starting rotation. Burnes looked plus-plus-plus out of the bullpen last year, and it took a 10+ ERA to convince the Brewers they couldn't send him out to the mound as a starter (for now). Peralta's performance tailing off after a hot MLB start last year, and back in the rotation this year and throwing 80+% fast balls which may be one of the reasons his performance faded a bit as time went by.

 

Hook may very well be a pitching coach bum. However, I would have to think these role assignments out of spring training has input from Hook and Counsell and Stearns, and to this point it looks like they are trying to pound square pegs into round holes.

[Brew crew 92]

There's far more to it than the pitching coach. You have advanced scouts, analytics people, catchers, etc. meet before every series to walk through how to pitch opposing batters. How much of this is on the pitching coach? Who knows.

 

But outside of the 3 young guns, what evidence is there that Johnson was any better? In fact, when Woodruff was a starter early last season he wasn't any good either. Johnson had the luxury of using these guys in short spurts out of the pen. Peralta I suppose you could point to. He had mixed results as a starter last year, but at least some starts were exceptional. I have no doubt the pitching coach is a factor, just so hard to prove how much.

 

I will say what we're seeing is more of an organizational failing than anything else. They let them go through the system with nothing more than FB/slider and then wonder why they can't get MLB hitters out, especially more than once. I would be drafting guys with a plus change or curve, and hire the best coach I could find that knows how to teach throwing a change-up. Then require each pitcher throw it 25% of the time every single outing. You can't just bring limited guys up like this and then say "it's your fault MLB pitching coach."

 

This is kind of what I am wondering. Did Johnson look so good because other decision-makers came to him and said "let's put Burnes in the rotation" and Johnson said "no, bullpen him." Or is Johnson just a mechanics wizard that will consistently get the best performances out of his pitchers?

 

I'm still wondering if the Brewers just screwed it up by assigning the wrong role in just about every single case where there was a decision to make. At least Woodruff has looked a little better in two of his last three starts, but his history shows that he has been a far, far, far better MLB pitcher as a reliever. Anderson began the year in the pen after having been a starter for most of his career, and the couple times he started he's looked far more effective. Guerra has done good work out of the pen, but with the struggles of the three young starters, maybe the Brewers should have done what Guerra's done most of his career and pitch him as part of the starting rotation. Burnes looked plus-plus-plus out of the bullpen last year, and it took a 10+ ERA to convince the Brewers they couldn't send him out to the mound as a starter (for now). Peralta's performance tailing off after a hot MLB start last year, and back in the rotation this year and throwing 80+% fast balls which may be one of the reasons his performance faded a bit as time went by.

 

Hook may very well be a pitching coach bum. However, I would have to think these role assignments out of spring training has input from Hook and Counsell and Stearns, and to this point it looks like they are trying to pound square pegs into round holes.

 

Guerra has pitched much better out of the pen than he pitched last year in the rotation. We don’t need him starting either, but he’s needed big time in this bullpen.

 

Otherwise, I agree with the rest of your take.

[Ennder]

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=2811251

 

Today DRA (Deserved Run Average) finally became available on Baseball Prospectus; it needs to collect a few weeks of data first as it factors in quality of opposition and such things. It's noteworthy because of all the publicly available metrics it has the best predictive value, the highest consistency, and it also reaches that point based on much smaller samples than other metrics. I'd say the last one is the most important at this point.

 

Anyway, it's not gospel or infallible or anything, just another (rather good) data set to take into account. But it's suggesting that based on how the team has been pitching, the results normally would have been better. And thus, continuing to do what they've done would see the pitching staff as an about middle of the road staff (16th) overall. Which is worse than we'd like, but take into account the following too: Brewers have used 20 pitchers, the 10 best contributors by DRA are all on the current roster. And that this isn't an old decrepit staff, there was nothing to suggest that Chacin was suddenly that 6+ ERA guy, that Jacob Barnes is suddenly 2 runs worse than in the past, or that even Alex Wilson has gone from a career 3.44 ERA to 9.53. In other words, the perfomance so far can better be described as "meh" rather than "awful". And that getting a better picture of who will or will not best help us out, adding some new blood (Gio, Jeffress, hopefully a healthy Nelson soon), and some talented guys hopefully figuring some things out (Burnes, Peralta) should see better underlying performance, and thus better run prevention, going forward.

 

TL;DR: April stats don't tell us much of value, less than stats in any other month of the year does. DRA is better at cutting through the noise, and in doing so better at predicting the future.

 

Please don't put much emphasis on something so subjective as DRA. DRA even takes into account someone's opinion of the umpire, the catcher calling the game and framing, temp., someone's opinion of the park, the team's defense, etc.... Because there are far too many variables based on opinion, not fact, DRA is in the eye of the beholder.

 

it is fine that you do not trust it, but it is still 1 million times better than judging these guys by ERA. ERA is the worst stat you could ever judge pitchers by in a small sample like this. ERA is just worthless and unfortunately people who don't understand baseball live by it.

[Bulldogboy]

Nationals fire Derek Lilliquist as pitching coach already. Brewers would be wise to not wait if they think Hook should be given the hook. So far he appears to be overmatched in this role. Nobody except for Davies and Guerra has exceeded expectations. His prior work with the young guys was supposed to be a positive but we know how that's worked out. Nationals not messing around says a ton.

[TJseven7]

Last year at this time MKE was 19-14. MKE is 2 games worse.

 

Last year MKE got starts from, Chacin(35), Anderson(30), Guerra(26), Suter(18), Miley(16), Peralta(14), Davies(13), Gio(5), Woodruff(4), Wilkerson(1).

 

These 2 were great in 21 starts

Miley 2.57 (cheap cast off)

Gio 2.13 (rental and cheap now)

 

The vast majority amassed an ERA that grouped together around 4.0

Chacin 35 at 3.50 (7 mil is cheap)

Wilkerson 1 at 3.60 (filler)

Anderson 30 at 3.93 (8 mil is cheap)

Guerra 26 at 4.27 (scrap heap find cheap)

Peralta 14 at 4.39 (kid)

Suter 18 at 4.56 (cheap junk baller)

Davies 13 at 4.77 (no flash guy who not be a highly paid pitcher)

 

The bad

Woodruff 4 at 6.89 (kid)

 

Chacin, Anderson, Davies, Gio are still here. They are cheap.

Davies 6 starts 1.38

Anderson 2 starts 1.87

Gio 1 start 3.60

Woodruff 6 starts 5.17

Chacin 7 starts 5.24 (last year through 6 he was a 4.54) He had 2 bad starts early this year and last year. LAD this year devastated his ERA.

 

It's very simple. Last year we pieced together a modest starting 5 that lacked talent, youth, potential and they gave the team plenty of substance. In the place of last years Peralta, this years Woodruff is headed in the right direction. 4 are still here.

 

The team rushed Burnes. The team rushed Peralta. The team even rushed Woodruff a bit. The results so far have been disastrous for a team looking to contend. Many of the pen pieces have also been disastrous. Last year at this time we were cussing out Logan, and Drake. However, Jeffress, Dan Jennings, Taylor Williams, Jacob Barnes, Albers were all dazzling. That's Jeffress and stuff getting the job done at a high high level. There was no Hader or Knebel early. This year it's Hader and Guerra getting the job done. No one is dazzling.

 

The pen has been nothing but misses behind Hader Jeffress Guerra Claudio and Albers.

The rotation is there to equal last years roster if we simply stop pressing kids into roles they are not ready for yet. It's not pretty. It's not sexy. It's substance.

 

That's who they were. That's who they are. That's not the future. They are trying to be the team that wins that is also developing their future. You can't go in 2 directions at the same time and win. Take 2 kids out of the rotation. Either develop them or put them in the pen. Pick 1 direction and go with it. Win, or build. Stop rushing starters into starting roles. If you rush a pitcher to the bigs its for the pen.

 

It honestly kinda fascinates me that a "small market" team who had a starting group within 1 win of the WS, a group of nobody low priced arms throwing 4.0 era ball, is preoccupied with the slim odds of grooming an ace. They've pulled Chacin, Guerra, Miley, Gio seemingly out of thin air. It's a long road to get these kids to results like that.

 

A 24 year old, a 22 year old who are not well rounded. Are not armed to face big league hitters multiple times. And we expect them to succeed? Eventually, when they are prepared to but they aren't ready yet. They pull a 31 year old out of the rotation who has been starting since he was 26 and NEVER had an ERA north of 4.4.

 

Our starting 5 needs to be around 4. Our pen needs have a 4 guys right around 4 and 2 good and 2 lethal. That's the build.

[Brew crew 92]

Ok, the experiment is over.

 

We just need to get thru the month of May and arguably the hardest opening 2 months schedule in baseball history, as close to .500 as possible.

 

In June the starting staff should be a STRENGTH:

Nelson Anderson Chacín Gio Davies > I would argue better than last year, with Nelson back and a healthy Davies.

 

Woodruff to the pen to join Burnes, with Guerra Albers Claudio Hader Jeffress Sanchez? Williams? And this pitching staff should be in business til the deadline, then Stearns can Strengthen to superpen and then hopefully take down the dodgers.

[Lathund]

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=2811251

 

Today DRA (Deserved Run Average) finally became available on Baseball Prospectus; it needs to collect a few weeks of data first as it factors in quality of opposition and such things. It's noteworthy because of all the publicly available metrics it has the best predictive value, the highest consistency, and it also reaches that point based on much smaller samples than other metrics. I'd say the last one is the most important at this point.

 

Anyway, it's not gospel or infallible or anything, just another (rather good) data set to take into account. But it's suggesting that based on how the team has been pitching, the results normally would have been better. And thus, continuing to do what they've done would see the pitching staff as an about middle of the road staff (16th) overall. Which is worse than we'd like, but take into account the following too: Brewers have used 20 pitchers, the 10 best contributors by DRA are all on the current roster. And that this isn't an old decrepit staff, there was nothing to suggest that Chacin was suddenly that 6+ ERA guy, that Jacob Barnes is suddenly 2 runs worse than in the past, or that even Alex Wilson has gone from a career 3.44 ERA to 9.53. In other words, the perfomance so far can better be described as "meh" rather than "awful". And that getting a better picture of who will or will not best help us out, adding some new blood (Gio, Jeffress, hopefully a healthy Nelson soon), and some talented guys hopefully figuring some things out (Burnes, Peralta) should see better underlying performance, and thus better run prevention, going forward.

 

TL;DR: April stats don't tell us much of value, less than stats in any other month of the year does. DRA is better at cutting through the noise, and in doing so better at predicting the future.

 

Please don't put much emphasis on something so subjective as DRA. DRA even takes into account someone's opinion of the umpire, the catcher calling the game and framing, temp., someone's opinion of the park, the team's defense, etc.... Because there are far too many variables based on opinion, not fact, DRA is in the eye of the beholder.

 

And by taking all that into account, it does a better job than any publicly available stat out there in predicting future run prevention. Because those things matter, they affect how a pitchers performance translates into preventing runs. Most of what you call "opinion" has a lot of data behind it. In the statcast era, framing isn't a matter of "someone's opinion". Nor is it "someone's opinion" that Marlins Park and Coors Field have an effect on the game. I'm especially intrigued by how temperature is an "opinion". Not to mention that all those things only add up to a small part of the DRA total. It's still about about singles, doubles, HRs, walks, strikeouts etc, all these other things just add context and slightly modify the run values. No stat is perfect, but it's the best we have. Far better than using ERA over a 20 inning sample to make definitive statements.

[brewmann04]

It seems so far that the young guys they counted on are not ready for full time work as starter. Hopefully they will get better or we can get a healthy Nelson back

[Brew crew 92]

Stearns is awesome. He knew what we had all along, struggles by the young guns be darned. This pitching staff is starting to take shape, and going forward will turn into one of the best staffs in the NL.

 

Slowly but surely roles are being defined, which is going to allow this staff to shine.

 

With Woodruff emerging as the STARTER we thought he’d be, and Burnes to the bullpen to dominate with his HIGH 90s FB and elite slider, Guerra a dominating high leverage pen arm, Jeffress slooowly improving, Albers looking like last year’s pre-injury Albers, Hader being Hader, Rubber arm Claudio capable of 100 relief appearances, this has the potential to be a superpen later in the year.

 

As far as the rotation, the experience of Gio, Anderson Davies and Chacín and the emergence of Woody is better than our starting staff at any point last year.

 

Then there’s jimmy Nelson. Who, I know I know most think is a wild card, but who I believe can be a dominant starter or pen arm. Not to mention a couple of potential call-ups with high end upside, and an abundance of $ and a stearns that can figure out what we need at the deadline. I’ve never been more bullish on a brewer pitching staff than this one.

[clancyphile]

Stearns is awesome. He knew what we had all along, struggles by the young guns be darned. This pitching staff is starting to take shape, and going forward will turn into one of the best staffs in the NL.

 

Slowly but surely roles are being defined, which is going to allow this staff to shine.

 

With Woodruff emerging as the STARTER we thought he’d be, and Burnes to the bullpen to dominate with his HIGH 90s FB and elite slider, Guerra a dominating high leverage pen arm, Jeffress slooowly improving, Albers looking like last year’s pre-injury Albers, Hader being Hader, Rubber arm Claudio capable of 100 relief appearances, this has the potential to be a superpen later in the year.

 

As far as the rotation, the experience of Gio, Anderson Davies and Chacín and the emergence of Woody is better than our starting staff at any point last year.

 

Then there’s jimmy Nelson. Who, I know I know most think is a wild card, but who I believe can be a dominant starter or pen arm. Not to mention a couple of potential call-ups with high end upside, and an abundance of $ and a stearns that can figure out what we need at the deadline. I’ve never been more bullish on a brewer pitching staff than this one.

 

And who is to say that Burnes and/or Peralta don't become great starters in another year? Burnes has two rarely-used pitches that he needs to develop. Peralta has shined as a starter, including that eight-inning performance just this year.

[sveumrules]

I’ve remained patient and positive, but there is no denying things look pretty grim for this group right now.

 

Here is where the Brewers currently rank among NL teams in pitching stats so far through 32 games...

 

Most earned runs allowed

 

2nd most hits allowed

 

2nd most walks allowed

 

2nd most HR allowed

 

2nd highest OPS allowed

 

Most total bases allowed

 

Fewest quality starts (just four total, next closest team has seven quality starts)

 

There are plenty more stats that look atrocious, but I decided to stop there. It has been about the worst start to the season imaginable for the Brewers pitching.

 

There's no denying things have looked pretty grim over the first 32 games, that does not guarantee those same results will repeat themselves over the next 130.

 

As terrible as they've been, they still rank 5th in the NL in wins.

 

It could be much much worse.

 

DJ has transformed the Reds into a pitching juggernaut not seen since the days of Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz, yet they are still only 12th in the NL in wins

 

So it goes.

 

Counting stat. The Brewers have played more games then anyone else other than the Dodgers. Win% they are 7th in the league (and out of the playoffs).

 

Of course that will benefit them later. They have played four more games than the Cubs so far this year and will get a day off here and there more than them.

 

I used a counting stat because the post I was responding to noted a number of counting stats as well. Earned runs allowed, hits allowed, walks allowed, home runs allowed, total bases allowed. Playing more games affects all those as well.

 

For as bad as our starting pitching has been, as bad as our bullpen has been, as bad as half our lineup has been, as hard as our schedule has been & Yelich missing the last five games...we are still right in the thick of things at this still very early juncture.

 

Sure, I'd love it if we had the best pitching staff in the league & all our batters were hitting gangbusters, but we don't, nobody does, we are due for a good deal of positive regression & have hung in the race despite all the bad fortune to this point.

 

I'd say that's a pretty huge success, all things considered.

[Mr Southpaw]

Nationals fire Derek Lilliquist as pitching coach already. Brewers would be wise to not wait if they think Hook should be given the hook. So far he appears to be overmatched in this role. Nobody except for Davies and Guerra has exceeded expectations. His prior work with the young guys was supposed to be a positive but we know how that's worked out. Nationals not messing around says a ton.

Not to be rude or anything, but Lilliquist has thrown exactly zero pitches this year. I have not looked at what the Nats have done pitching wise, but would imagine their pitching coach has done about the same as every other pitching coach in the league. Same thing with Hooks.

[Mr Southpaw]

Ok, the experiment is over.

 

We just need to get thru the month of May and arguably the hardest opening 2 months schedule in baseball history, as close to .500 as possible.

 

In June the starting staff should be a STRENGTH:

Nelson Anderson Chacín Gio Davies > I would argue better than last year, with Nelson back and a healthy Davies.

 

Woodruff to the pen to join Burnes, with Guerra Albers Claudio Hader Jeffress Sanchez? Williams? And this pitching staff should be in business til the deadline, then Stearns can Strengthen to superpen and then hopefully take down the dodgers.

This is about exactly what I was thinking. If Nelson cannot do the starting thing, he will be in the bullpen and Woodruff then takes his place, If Anderson can do 2/3 of what he did two years ago we will be a good starting staff.

[JohnBriggs12]

Counsell needs to stop pulling starters at around 80 pitches or this staff is toast. Gio, Davies, and Chacin are all capable on good days of pitching into the 7th inning. Woodruff isn't quite as efficient but he too can handle 105-110 pitches. He's not a kid. He's a big strong guy.

[Brew crew 92]

Counsell needs to stop pulling starters at around 80 pitches or this staff is toast. Gio, Davies, and Chacin are all capable on good days of pitching into the 7th inning. Woodruff isn't quite as efficient but he too can handle 105-110 pitches. He's not a kid. He's a big strong guy.

 

This.

If if if any of our starters pitching well, let them continue, if effective til 100-105. We DONT have enough multi-inning pen arms to cover the innings at THIS time. It might be ok for Claudio to pitch in 100 games, but I worry about Guerra. He hasn’t even been a pen arm for a full year yet, and he’s being used A LOT.

 

This pen needs Houser pitching multi-inning and when Nelson back one of Nelson/woodruff. Then CC can pull his starters with-out decimating the pen.

[TURBO]

not agreeing or disagreeing because I have mixed opinions, but if the stats say that a starting pitcher gets his butt kicked the 3rd time through the line-up on a regular basis, would you let him pitch anyway, just to save the BP arms?

 

Again, it's a legit question, not saying I would or wouldn't do it.

[Oxy]

not agreeing or disagreeing because I have mixed opinions, but if the stats say that a starting pitcher gets his butt kicked the 3rd time through the line-up on a regular basis, would you let him pitch anyway, just to save the BP arms?

 

Again, it's a legit question, not saying I would or wouldn't do it.

 

In a long season where you play nearly every day there are going to be different variables that affect your strategies in order to win as many games as possible throughout the season. The score, matchups and how he looked against the top of the order the first two times through the order, how many pitches those guys saw from him, who is available in the bullpen, when the next off day is, etc.

 

It's a day by day type thing.

[Oxy]

Counsell needs to stop pulling starters at around 80 pitches or this staff is toast. Gio, Davies, and Chacin are all capable on good days of pitching into the 7th inning. Woodruff isn't quite as efficient but he too can handle 105-110 pitches. He's not a kid. He's a big strong guy.

 

This.

If if if any of our starters pitching well, let them continue, if effective til 100-105. We DONT have enough multi-inning pen arms to cover the innings at THIS time. It might be ok for Claudio to pitch in 100 games, but I worry about Guerra. He hasn’t even been a pen arm for a full year yet, and he’s being used A LOT.

 

This pen needs Houser pitching multi-inning and when Nelson back one of Nelson/woodruff. Then CC can pull his starters with-out decimating the pen.

 

Or just don't have 18 inning games right in the middle of 10 straight games three days after having a bullpen game because you unexpectedly lost a starter 15 minutes before gametime.

[Brew crew 92]

Counsell needs to stop pulling starters at around 80 pitches or this staff is toast. Gio, Davies, and Chacin are all capable on good days of pitching into the 7th inning. Woodruff isn't quite as efficient but he too can handle 105-110 pitches. He's not a kid. He's a big strong guy.

 

This.

If if if any of our starters pitching well, let them continue, if effective til 100-105. We DONT have enough multi-inning pen arms to cover the innings at THIS time. It might be ok for Claudio to pitch in 100 games, but I worry about Guerra. He hasn’t even been a pen arm for a full year yet, and he’s being used A LOT.

 

This pen needs Houser pitching multi-inning and when Nelson back one of Nelson/woodruff. Then CC can pull his starters with-out decimating the pen.

 

Or just don't have 18 inning games right in the middle of 10 straight games three days after having a bullpen game because you unexpectedly lost a starter 15 minutes before gametime.

 

All the more reason to have more starter type arms pitching out of the pen.