2019 Brewers' pitching staff

[Brew crew 92]

Tbbc, great explanation!

Your observations and thoughts are really sharp, spot on.

 

Now that we saw a team head & shoulders better than the crew, the dodgers, how do we beat them? How do we win the central and advance, and get past the dodgers?

 

Continue to develope woody Burnes peralta houser by having them start either in milw. Or AAA. When Nelson comes back go to 6 man, rotating Nelson woody peralta houser Burnes to pen as multi-inning pen arms.

 

So pen would have min of 2-3 high quality multi-inning arms capable of pitching 2-4 innings at a time. Trade deadline add a Soria or better arm to go with Hader jeffress Kimbrel

 

Then for playoffs 3 of ( Nelson Burnes Woodruff Peralta Houser Wilkerson Perdomo Guerra Brown Rasmussen )to go multi-inning, rubber arm Claudio, Hader jeffress kimbrel trade aq.

 

Starters among Davies Anderson chacin Nelson Burnes Woodruff Peralta

 

Dominant, unique superpen only way to overcome Andrew Friedman’s 200 mil dodgers team. Imo.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The roster rules of the regular season just don't allow the kind of extreme solutions folks throw around.

 

What are those extreme solutions being thrown around? I'd love to hear them. Got a link?

 

Personally, I think the extreme situations would be the talk of scheduled piggyback games and doing away with the traditional 5-man rotation. Those are two that stick in my mind that I personally didn't see much chance of happening.

 

I do think that a lot of what they did last year was out of necessity, but the fact that it worked so effectively has opened it up as a viable option to once again employ when the situation calls for it. I just don't think we're going to see that philosophy utilized on a regular basis, though, until rosters expand. And much of that will depend on the state of the rotation at that time.

[homer]

 

I believe they used a one out pitcher to start things off on at least 2 occasions and 1 innings starts as well. Regardless of how many times or even if it happened, it's getting attached to my argument and I'm not the one making it. Your posts this morning are proof of that. I'm not the one talking about or promoting 1 batter and 1 inning stints. It's actually quite the opposite. I'm promoting the elimination of 1 out and 1 inning specialists and decreasing the dependence on needing 5 guys to go 5-7 innings every five days.

 

I honestly don't see anyone attaching that to your argument except you. If I'm wrong let me know but I haven't seen anyone else even mention one batter or one inning starts.

[KeithStone53151]

The biggest problem with 2-4 inning staffs is what happens when a pitcher gets killed early and can't get outs.

 

Umm, bring in one of the other 11-12 pitchers geared to go 2-4 innings on any given day?

 

So you have 12 guys all capable of 2-4 inning outings and need 2-3 days off in between. For simplicity, let's say the 2 prior days went perfectly and you used 6 pitchers for 3 innings each. Now your guy gets shelled in the first inning and needs to get pulled, you now only have 5 pitchers to choose from as the other 7 are completely unavailable. And you actually only have 3 EXTRA pitchers to choose from as 2 are already earmarked for the current game. And again, this assumes everything works perfectly the 2 days prior. So your comment above makes no sense, because you will almost never have 11 pitchers available to pick from on a given day...only on opening day/after the all star break.

 

Bad outings and extra innings would absolutely destroy this pitching strategy. It is not sustainable over the course of the season and won't ever happen. MLB is also actively making this strategy more difficult by soon limiting numbers of pitchers on the active roster, September callups, and changing the IL to 15 day instead of 10...making shuttle service strategy more difficult.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

No different from present day when the team gets shelled and taps into the AAA roster using their shuttle system. You guys are way overthinking this. Eliminating the dependency on specialists and 1 inning guys actually makes it easier to have initial out getters go through the lineup 2 times max.

[KeithStone53151]

No different from present day when the team gets shelled and taps into the AAA roster using their shuttle system. You guys are way overthinking this. Eliminating the dependency on specialists and 1 inning guys actually makes it easier to have initial out getters go through the lineup 2 times max.

 

I think you're simply underthinking it. There are a lot of reasons that no team is implementing anything remotely resembling your strategy over the course of a season. Believe it or not, you are not 2 steps ahead of all 30 baseball GM's.

[coolhandluke121]

 

I think you're simply underthinking it. There are a lot of reasons that no team is implementing anything remotely resembling your strategy over the course of a season. Believe it or not, you are not 2 steps ahead of all 30 baseball GM's.

 

You could say that about every helpful innovation before teams started doing it. I think some of the pitching innovations they experimented with last year are more sustainable than most people seem to suggest. No, it's not the same as after September call-ups, but they have plenty of guys with options who are stretched out as starters. It's not really built on using traditional relievers, like in September, but more on long relievers to minimize times through the order and pitcher ab's.

 

There are plenty of reasons teams don't do it, but I think the main one are just that the MLB guys are much better than AAAA for most teams so it's a moot point. The Brewers thought that was going to be the case this year, but the early returns are dreadful. And if your MLB guys aren't better than your AAAA guys, you probably are nowhere near contention anyway, so you just play the young guys. The Brewers are in an unusual position and are very progressive thinkers, and that's just the type of combination that leads to changing paradigms. I'm not betting or predicting that they will do this, but I think declaring in no uncertain terms that they won't is presumptuous at best.

[djoctagone]

for the first time in 2019, the brewers have a 12-man pitching staff.

[Lathund]

5th starter isn't needed until the 30th. At which point I believe Burnes is eligible to be recalled (Optioned on the 19th), and the reports on Peralta I've seen suggested a short stint so he should be available too. Or perhaps it's Gio.

[wntrtxn21]

No different from present day when the team gets shelled and taps into the AAA roster using their shuttle system. You guys are way overthinking this. Eliminating the dependency on specialists and 1 inning guys actually makes it easier to have initial out getters go through the lineup 2 times max.

 

You overlook two very important things. First, a pitcher has to stay down for at least 10 days once he is sent down. Second; San Antonio also needs pitching for their games. They can't use guys who have just thrown a number of innings in the big league for at least two days. They too have a limited number of pitchers. Plus some of those guys in San Antonio just are not ready for the big leagues.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

No different from present day when the team gets shelled and taps into the AAA roster using their shuttle system. You guys are way overthinking this. Eliminating the dependency on specialists and 1 inning guys actually makes it easier to have initial out getters go through the lineup 2 times max.

 

You overlook two very important things. First, a pitcher has to stay down for at least 10 days once he is sent down. Second; San Antonio also needs pitching for their games. They can't use guys who have just thrown a number of innings in the big league for at least two days. They too have a limited number of pitchers. Plus some of those guys in San Antonio just are not ready for the big leagues.

 

Don't take this wrong way, but have you been paying attention to the Brewers transactions for the last 2 seasons?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

No different from present day when the team gets shelled and taps into the AAA roster using their shuttle system. You guys are way overthinking this. Eliminating the dependency on specialists and 1 inning guys actually makes it easier to have initial out getters go through the lineup 2 times max.

 

You overlook two very important things. First, a pitcher has to stay down for at least 10 days once he is sent down. Second; San Antonio also needs pitching for their games. They can't use guys who have just thrown a number of innings in the big league for at least two days. They too have a limited number of pitchers. Plus some of those guys in San Antonio just are not ready for the big leagues.

 

I could care less if San Antonio is periodically short on arms and has to leave a scrub out there to get shelled once in a while. The AAA team is simply a means to an end. That team's only objective is to get guys ready for major league action.

[ReverendBrewmeister]

Truly could use some starters who can figure out how to go six innings or deeper in a game. The team is averaging 4.89 IP/start through April 23. Exposing the bullpen for four or five innings per game as it’s currently constructed doesn’t appear to be a winning formula.

[Brew crew 92]

Truly could use some starters who can figure out how to go six innings or deeper in a game. The team is averaging 4.89 IP/start through April 23. Exposing the bullpen for four or five innings per game as it’s currently constructed doesn’t appear to be a winning formula.

 

I’m much more concerned with the bullpen.

 

We’ve already seen the worst of the starting pitching. Not sure that’s the case with pen.

 

Anderson starting helps the rotation > hurts the bullpen.

Davies Chacín ok, woodruff improving, Nelson return imminent.

 

ONE quality high leverage arm < Hader >.

Guerra > good

Claudio >good

Jeffress >good

 

Albers > ?

Wilson > bad

Barnes > bad

Petricka > bad

 

Can’t win with this bullpen. Sorry. CC needs more than 4 pen arms.

 

At some point sooner rather than later stearns going to have to drop a couple from the 40 man to add a couple of worthy down under pen arms.

Drop hart & Petricka

Add Jackson & perdomo & sanchez

[wntrtxn21]

No different from present day when the team gets shelled and taps into the AAA roster using their shuttle system. You guys are way overthinking this. Eliminating the dependency on specialists and 1 inning guys actually makes it easier to have initial out getters go through the lineup 2 times max.

 

You overlook two very important things. First, a pitcher has to stay down for at least 10 days once he is sent down. Second; San Antonio also needs pitching for their games. They can't use guys who have just thrown a number of innings in the big league for at least two days. They too have a limited number of pitchers. Plus some of those guys in San Antonio just are not ready for the big leagues.

 

I could care less if San Antonio is periodically short on arms and has to leave a scrub out there to get shelled once in a while. The AAA team is simply a means to an end. That team's only objective is to get guys ready for major league action.

 

YOU couldn't care less, BUT David Elmore and the Elmore group who own the team care a lot. If THEIR team is continually getting pounded and winning little, their attendance drops and they lose money. People don't want to see a bunch of over matched bums getting killed on a regular basis. The Brewers agreement with Elmore is to put a competitive team there. All minor lg. owners understand that the roster will vary, but they expect to at least have some semblance of a competitive team on display.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

YOU couldn't care less, BUT David Elmore and the Elmore group who own the team care a lot. If THEIR team is continually getting pounded and winning little, their attendance drops and they lose money. People don't want to see a bunch of over matched bums getting killed on a regular basis. The Brewers agreement with Elmore is to put a competitive team there. All minor lg. owners understand that the roster will vary, but they expect to at least have some semblance of a competitive team on display.

 

I fully expect that with this front office's talent for acquiring and developing ... well ... talent, that their minor league teams are going to be and remain competitive. But having a competitive team at AAA should never, ever trump what the big club is trying to do. And I'm sure all parties involved understand that.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm really not sure I buy into that at all. Minor League Baseball is about over-the-top promos, goofy mascots, $2 beers and $1 dogs, and a sense of community. I really don't think attendance is all that dependent on winning. If you're in San Antonio and want to see a winner you're spending hard-earned money on the Spurs, not the Missions. You're going to a Missions game to have some low cost fun and maybe see a couple prospects. I think you might be drastically overstating the number of people who not only care how the team does, but can even name a couple guys on the field.

 

The teams that draw really well usually do so because they've made the game day atmosphere a fun gathering. I've been to a lot of MiLB games and never got the sense that anybody was really invested in what was taking place on the field.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm really not sure I buy into that at all. Minor League Baseball is about over-the-top promos, goofy mascots, $2 beers and $1 dogs, and a sense of community. I really don't think attendance is all that dependent on winning. If you're in San Antonio and want to see a winner you're spending hard-earned money on the Spurs, not the Missions. You're going to a Missions game to have some low cost fun and maybe see a couple prospects. I think you might be drastically overstating the number of people who not only care how the team does, but can even name a couple guys on the field.

 

The teams that draw really well usually do so because they've made the game day atmosphere a fun gathering. I've been to a lot of MiLB games and never got the sense that anybody was really invested in what was taking place on the field.

 

Exactly ... people go to minor league games because its a relatively inexpensive family experience, and the chance to see typically solid baseball, especially at the AAA level. If a minor league team has a few big name prospects, that might help attendance, but those people that truly care about that are the minority. The majority of minor league baseball game attendees are going to care much more about the chance to catch free food out of the hot dog cannon than whether Bubba Derby or Corbin Burnes is pitching that night.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I believe Charlotte won the attendance title last year and was either last place or second to last in their division

[JosephC]

People who say that wins and losses don't matter for minor league clubs have a pretty short memory and have forgotten how badly the Brewers relationship ended with the Nashville Sounds.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'd call that a pretty poor example. They were above .500 during their affiliation with Milwaukee and they play in Nashville. It's not exactly a community lacking in things to do. If they're unhappy with the relationship for any reason, they're obviously going to blame the Brewers. Just looking at 2018's numbers there doesn't appear to be a real correlation betweens wins and attendance. It's all over the place. Making the game fun appears to be a much bigger driver than winning.

 

Safe to say that most of the community here loves baseball, so I think we're getting a little bit of bias there. Most people at an MiLB game are just looking for something to do and heard Darius Rucker is singing after the game. Plus they can have six beers for $10.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

People who say that wins and losses don't matter for minor league clubs have a pretty short memory and have forgotten how badly the Brewers relationship ended with the Nashville Sounds.

 

Sounds records in their years as a Brewer affiliate:

 

2005 - 75-69

2006 - 76-68

2007 - 89-55

2008 - 59-81

2009 - 75-69

2010 - 77-67

2011 - 71-73

2012 - 67-77

2013 - 57-87

2014 - 77-67

 

In 10 seasons, they were competitive in 7. If Sounds ownership were blaming the broken relationship on not having competitive baseball, they are 100% wrong, and frankly that excuse is insulting to fans. What's funny is that the Sounds were trash in two of their four seasons as an A's affiliate, and are sitting at an outstanding 5-13 in their first year as a Rangers affiliate.

[SeaBass]

I'm going by memory here so that's suspect right from the start, but wasn't one of the reasons Nashville broke from the Brewers was the dip in talented prospects going through there at the time? Guys that could be billed as future pros to watch as they were up and coming? Plus my foggy memory wants to remember that the Brewers had been kind of skipping the AAA level with their promotions, dipping into AA for their call ups and the place where they were stashing their top talent. I think Nashville felt a little neglected with a roster full of AAAA type guys that really weren't buzz worthy. None of this is based on research so I could be way off.

[tmwiese55]

Truly could use some starters who can figure out how to go six innings or deeper in a game. The team is averaging 4.89 IP/start through April 23. Exposing the bullpen for four or five innings per game as it’s currently constructed doesn’t appear to be a winning formula.

 

Exactly. Forgetting the roster restrictions and all that, it's very difficult to find 13-16 reliable pitchers that would be needed in this type of scenario. Probably a reason why teams have tried to find 4-5 reliable guys to start and then hope for as many good BP guys as possible but usually can only find 2-3. Somehow the perfect storm happened last year for MKE to have incredible depth of reliable guys in the pen. Obviously we're seeing the opposite of that now. As a small market team though it would be a cost efficient creative thing to explore but I'd say the roster rules combined with finding this many reliable guys makes it not tenable. I'd think to even consider a drastic change up you'd need the 26th spot, DH and no restrictions on pitchers on your roster.

 

Probably the most realistic shift could be a middle ground of sorts. Where you do have a couple normal starters but also 1-2 'rotation' spots where you know it's gonna be a team approach that day so you plan your roster moves and reliever usage around it. Still, if your normal starters get beat up you're in big trouble as your bp doesn't get rest then. Could see this working around true top end SPs though, say WAS as an example. You have 3 ace level type guys you can rely on for 6+ almost every time out. Well then get weird those other days instead of trotting out a Tanner Roark for a 5 ERA all year.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Truly could use some starters who can figure out how to go six innings or deeper in a game. The team is averaging 4.89 IP/start through April 23. Exposing the bullpen for four or five innings per game as it’s currently constructed doesn’t appear to be a winning formula.

 

Yes, therein lies the problem. The Brewers clearly are adverse to running their pitchers out for 3 trips through a batting order unless the starter is dominating. And even then, the pitcher is removed at the first sign of trouble. The numbers say this is a smart thing. But the roster is still heavily dependent on pitchers geared to average around one inning per appearance. The solution right now is to shuttle players back and forth via San Antonio to supply fresh arms. But the more you tap into that well, the lesser the quality of arm you're tapping into. For the Brewers truly to be able to utilize the "limit exposure" model they're going to have to stack the roster with longer arms. Keep in mind the last few weeks has seen a loss of 3 long arms, Peralta, Burnes, and Guerra. And the replacements have been Houser, Wilkerson, and Petricka. Not exactly equal quality or length.