2019 Brewers' pitching staff

[True Blue Brew Crew]

So about that Freddy Peralta...

 

Hopefully the dogs have been called off at least temporarily.

 

I'll take my crow with a side of fries, please

 

Freddy was tremendous today. Actually all the starting pitchers have had nice moments so far. It's a fun position to be in. If they can continue to get solid outings from the starters, and even increase the efficiency to allow them to get deeper into games, that is going to make the bullpen that much more effective. Peralta was extremely efficient today, getting 8 innings out of his 100 pitches, and looking very effective in his 3rd time through the Reds' order.

 

This is just so awesome. The fact that any of these 3 kids could be a TOR is a joy to think about. All of them could fall short of that lofty status of course, but just the possibility that 1,2,or all 3 could be dominant is too exciting to describe.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I think they can manage the innings easily throughout the year. First, guys are going to have legit injuries to go on the DL and take a few weeks off. With guys like Anderson, Nelson ready to step in when needed there's no need to force through it. Along with that, I think they'll be proactive on just tossing them DL stints here and there to if they feel they're getting tired/sore at all. Kind of be extra cautious with them, go take a couple starts off and let Anderson fill in. I don't think it will end up as a problem. Well, if it does I guess it's a good problem to have as it means they've all done very well.

 

Eye balling schedule I don't see the log jam of off days like they had late last year to skip guys. But they have 4 straight Thursdays off in August.

 

If all 3 stay healthy and productive, the team might have send each down to San Antonio for 2-3 week stints just to limit their use. Rotate amongst them when Nelson is (if) ready.

[mrn1ceguy]

 

If all 3 stay healthy and productive, the team might have send each down to San Antonio for 2-3 week stints just to limit their use. Rotate amongst them when Nelson is (if) ready.

 

This is my thought as well. If/when Nelson is going well (first week of May?), send each young one down for ~2 weeks at a time to sort of rotate the three of them in two spots through the all start break pending no one gets hurt or struggles enough to need a demotion. This will help keep their innings low enough to be usable in September/October. Then come mid July, re-assess Nelson progress and maybe give him some time off if needed and then start up the 6 man rotation with rotating AAA/DL as needed to get to September. Now, injuries will probably break this plan, but it seems like an ideal best case scenario option right now.

[tmwiese55]

 

If all 3 stay healthy and productive, the team might have send each down to San Antonio for 2-3 week stints just to limit their use. Rotate amongst them when Nelson is (if) ready.

 

This is my thought as well. If/when Nelson is going well (first week of May?), send each young one down for ~2 weeks at a time to sort of rotate the three of them in two spots through the all start break pending no one gets hurt or struggles enough to need a demotion. This will help keep their innings low enough to be usable in September/October. Then come mid July, re-assess Nelson progress and maybe give him some time off if needed and then start up the 6 man rotation with rotating AAA/DL as needed to get to September. Now, injuries will probably break this plan, but it seems like an ideal best case scenario option right now.

 

Exactly. I just figured they'd toss them on the DL instead of AAA. I suppose it would help their clocks to be in AAA but really a few weeks isn't gonna matter. on the DL they'd stay with the team, not be traveling around on busses, eating crappy food, etc. Either way works I guess. But yea same thing I meant.

[Brew crew 92]

I think they can manage the innings easily throughout the year. First, guys are going to have legit injuries to go on the DL and take a few weeks off. With guys like Anderson, Nelson ready to step in when needed there's no need to force through it. Along with that, I think they'll be proactive on just tossing them DL stints here and there to if they feel they're getting tired/sore at all. Kind of be extra cautious with them, go take a couple starts off and let Anderson fill in. I don't think it will end up as a problem. Well, if it does I guess it's a good problem to have as it means they've all done very well.

 

Eye balling schedule I don't see the log jam of off days like they had late last year to skip guys. But they have 4 straight Thursdays off in August.

 

If all 3 stay healthy and

productive, the team might have send each down to San Antonio for 2-3 week stints just to limit their use. Rotate amongst them when Nelson is (if) ready.

 

Or go to the 6 man and rotate to pen that XIS talked about. That would be my plan, keep em on big club or IR all year. No wasted innings on minor leaguers, unless peralta goes down and throws 80% curves and change-ups for 2-3 innings.

[Brew crew 92]

It’s early, but, bullpen better than I thought it would be this early in the season. IF jeffress can be an effective high leverage arm again > look out, because:

 

I’m ready to declare when Nelson back in rotation it’s top 3 in NL. Mets best, then maybe us. I don’t care that it’s only 7 games in, I’ve seen enough. Of course there will be SOME growing pains but not as much as some think. Maybe some with peralta but Burnes and woody gonna dominate the whole year, Their stuff AND command too good not to.

 

Overall pitching staff has a few questions, namely the pen. But I trust Counsell to make the right moves, and Stearns to fix any weakness.

[coolhandluke121]

Top 3 NL rotation in talent I could buy. In overall trade value, I think they're already there, just because team control at low prices means lots of trade value. But I don't buy top 3 in performance for a rotation with Davies, a guy recovering from a torn labrum, a guy with a career FIP over 4, and 3 young guys who have less than a year's worth of combined starts between them and with innings limits. They've all earned the right to be here, but it's not like they were ever blue chip phenoms or anything.

 

I think the rotation is going to be an above average strength of the team, but I think the offense will have to carry them if they're going to replicate last year's success.

[tmwiese55]

Well I think Mets/Nats are clearly 1, 2 in some order. Then a big gap to others. But eyeballing teams I could see it being feasible. Normally LAD automatically would be ahead but with Kershaw hurt and the rest of their guys questionable/unproven I don't think its for sure. Obviously ours are drastically less proven than some others that could trot out experienced guys but yes if everything goes the way it looks now they would have a shot.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

I love how Craig is using Hader so far. More so based off need. But using the off day to his advantage to get Hader two off days in a row. Then depending on the game situations Hader is available 2 games this weekend, potentially on 3 days rest. Very underrated manager, imo.

[Brew crew 92]

Top 3 NL rotation in talent I could buy. In overall trade value, I think they're already there, just because team control at low prices means lots of trade value. But I don't buy top 3 in performance for a rotation with Davies, a guy recovering from a torn labrum, a guy with a career FIP over 4, and 3 young guys who have less than a year's worth of combined starts between them and with innings limits. They've all earned the right to be here, but it's not like they were ever blue chip phenoms or anything.

 

I think the rotation is going to be an above average strength of the team, but I think the offense will have to carry them if they're going to replicate last year's success.

 

Either the scouts were wrong in their evaluations of our three young guns or our development and instruction was superior, I think it’s a combination of both.

 

Davies might get replaced by Nelson, making Chacin a potential #5 in this rotation. So yeah, top three performance wise in my opinion.

 

This offense doesn’t need to carry this team, but it will help us win 100+. And at some point this year our bullpen will be as strong or STRONGER than last years pen. Brown and others if needed called up, trade deadline acquisitions, and starters rotating to pen will assure us of that.

[clancyphile]

 

If all 3 stay healthy and productive, the team might have send each down to San Antonio for 2-3 week stints just to limit their use. Rotate amongst them when Nelson is (if) ready.

 

This is my thought as well. If/when Nelson is going well (first week of May?), send each young one down for ~2 weeks at a time to sort of rotate the three of them in two spots through the all start break pending no one gets hurt or struggles enough to need a demotion. This will help keep their innings low enough to be usable in September/October. Then come mid July, re-assess Nelson progress and maybe give him some time off if needed and then start up the 6 man rotation with rotating AAA/DL as needed to get to September. Now, injuries will probably break this plan, but it seems like an ideal best case scenario option right now.

 

I'm not so sure it's as much innings as pitches thrown.

 

If Peralta is going eight innings on 100 pitches... that's not really worrisome. Heck, let's see more of that.

 

It's an art, and we have to trust Craig Counsell and company on that.

[Brew crew 92]

Well I think Mets/Nats are clearly 1, 2 in some order. Then a big gap to others. But eyeballing teams I could see it being feasible. Normally LAD automatically would be ahead but with Kershaw hurt and the rest of their guys questionable/unproven I don't think its for sure. Obviously ours are drastically less proven than some others that could trot out experienced guys but yes if everything goes the way it looks now they would have a shot.

 

How much more proof do we need? It’s ok to go with what our eyes have seen. Counsell & Stearns did in last year’s pennant race and playoff run.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I had a lot of worry going into last season about the rotation, but why are people still worried about this? I don't believe for a second this rotation will be worse than last year's. All the big pieces of it should be better and I guess they lost Wade Miley. They're pushing a bunch of ok veterans out of playing time in favor of superior talent. I'm just not overly concerned about it. Anything they get out of Nelson is gravy. I'm still thinking as if he can't pitch.

 

I just get the feeling people are blowing Knebel's injury way out of proportion. It's a significant loss, but it should not be a death knell.

[Brew crew 92]

I had a lot of worry going into last season about the rotation, but why are people still worried about this? I don't believe for a second this rotation will be worse than last year's. All the big pieces of it should be better and I guess they lost Wade Miley. They're pushing a bunch of ok veterans out of playing time in favor of superior talent. I'm just not overly concerned about it. Anything they get out of Nelson is gravy. I'm still thinking as if he can't pitch.

 

I just get the feeling people are blowing Knebel's injury way out of proportion. It's a significant loss, but it should not be a death knell.

 

Even the worrywarts on our rotation going into the year I think have come around.

 

I was one of those that was overly worried about our early season pen, but I like what I’ve seen so far, at worst can buy time for reinforcements.

 

ONLY complaint switch Barnes with Fields ASAP.

[OldHeidelberg]

I will say this, I am sure glad we didn't trade one of those young starters. Someone else brought it up in another thread but we could have pulled the trigger on Burnes or Woodruff for Machado but didn't. Plenty of us supported trading one of them for Realmuto. Heck, most of us thought the org didn't like Woodruff and were going to trade him for sure at the deadline last season. We usually have a prospect like these come up only every few years, Yo, Nelson, Wily come to mind and that was over how many years?

[shanedog19]

Is there a better young starting trio in baseball than Peralta, Burnes and Woodruff?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Is there a better young starting trio in baseball than Peralta, Burnes and Woodruff?

 

If you believe national prospect rankings and Braves fans, their trio of Soroka, Wright and Touissant ranks right up there.

[tmwiese55]

I had a lot of worry going into last season about the rotation, but why are people still worried about this? I don't believe for a second this rotation will be worse than last year's. All the big pieces of it should be better and I guess they lost Wade Miley. They're pushing a bunch of ok veterans out of playing time in favor of superior talent. I'm just not overly concerned about it. Anything they get out of Nelson is gravy. I'm still thinking as if he can't pitch.

 

I just get the feeling people are blowing Knebel's injury way out of proportion. It's a significant loss, but it should not be a death knell.

 

Agree. I think I posted it here but for sure have talked to people about how on paper going into the year our starters should be better and give more innings than what we got last year. Injuries to Nelson, Davies, with Anderson doing poorly led to a mostly patchwork year outside of Chacin. This year should be way better and hopefully make up for some bullpen regression (which started with Knebel/JJ injuries).

[shanedog19]

Is there a better young starting trio in baseball than Peralta, Burnes and Woodruff?

 

If you believe national prospect rankings and Braves fans, their trio of Soroka, Wright and Touissant ranks right up there.

 

I would take our three over those three hands down. I am giddy thinking how good this rotation could be if and when Nelson returns to 100%. Add Zack Brown as our #5 next year and I think you potentially have the best rotation in all of baseball.

[coolhandluke121]

I will say this, I am sure glad we didn't trade one of those young starters. Someone else brought it up in another thread but we could have pulled the trigger on Burnes or Woodruff for Machado but didn't.

 

That was me and I agree. It was kind of out of place in the Yelich thread but that's where the conversation went when I compared the type of prospect-for-rental-veteran trades they used to make to the Yelich trade. Love the shift in organizational philosophy - don't hug your prospects too much, but don't give away surplus value for rentals. Small markets just can't operate on expensive rentals and negative surplus value. Yeah, some of those trades will work out in the short term, but if that's your M.O., then you're all but assuring mediocrity or worse in the long run because you will lose some of those trades badly.

 

I do love this trio but I'm not ready to bet on this top be a top NL rotation yet. It would be extraordinarily unusual for a trio that young to not hit some rough stretches.

[Brew crew 92]

I will say this, I am sure glad we didn't trade one of those young starters. Someone else brought it up in another thread but we could have pulled the trigger on Burnes or Woodruff for Machado but didn't.

 

That was me and I agree. It was kind of out of place in the Yelich thread but that's where the conversation went when I compared the type of prospect-for-rental-veteran trades they used to make to the Yelich trade. Love the shift in organizational philosophy - don't hug your prospects too much, but don't give away surplus value for rentals. Small markets just can't operate on expensive rentals and negative surplus value. Yeah, some of those trades will work out in the short term, but if that's your M.O., then you're all but assuring mediocrity or worse in the long run because you will lose some of those trades badly.

 

I do love this trio but I'm not ready to bet on this top be a top NL rotation yet. It would be extraordinarily unusual for a trio that young to not hit some rough stretches.

 

Liquidate all your assets and bet all you got on this rotation. Sure all pitchers go thru rough stretches(with exceptions being degrom scherzer) but this starting staff special. And with a healthy Nelson, deeper than ALL of NL rotations including Mets.

[FVBrewerFan]

This starting staff is not special, and please stop saying "with a healthy Nelson" like it's a given. When will we learn? The TALENT is pretty special, but there's a long way to go before I can call this staff special and the deepest in NL. Davies is Davies, Burnes has started one game, and neither Peralta or Woodruff have proven they can be consistently good as starters.

 

I get it, it's exciting. I've waited many years for the Brewers to have a bunch of their home-grown pitchers in the rotation. Let's just pump the brakes a little.

[Brew crew 92]

This starting staff is not special, and please stop saying "with a healthy Nelson" like it's a given. When will we learn? The TALENT is pretty special, but there's a long way to go before I can call this staff special and the deepest in NL. Davies is Davies, Burnes has started one game, and neither Peralta or Woodruff have proven they can be consistently good as starters.

 

I get it, it's exciting. I've waited many years for the Brewers to have a bunch of their home-grown pitchers in the rotation. Let's just pump the brakes a little.

 

You can pump your own brakes, put your head in the sand if you want, I’ll choose to go with what I see and hear. You can gloat at your own peril in regards to Nelson, (“when will we learn”) all you want. But from what I’ve read and heard and been told by a few on this board he’s Pitching in extended ST to build up his arm and will pitch with the big club at some point sooner rather than later. I’m fairly confident your opinion is in the minority with respect to our staff being special. Our trio had “Talent” last year BEFORE pitching lights out in the pennant race and playoffs. I don’t need TIME to show me Burnes Woody Peralta are special, their special NOW. And Davies is Davies, a pretty good #5.

 

Add Nelson Anderson Houser Brown and I’ll go to war with those 9 any day.

[Ennder]

You can sit here and just insult everyone who doesn't agree with you and not add any constructive opinion about it other than I've seen them pitch I know what they are, but it just isn't a compelling argument. Major league history is full of talented pitchers who had some sort of flaw hold them back from showing their full potential. To use another trio that is as talented if not more just look at the Phillies with Pivetta, Ray and Nola. 3 years ago they were being hyped up more than this Brewers trio. Their talent is off the charts but Pivetta and Ray have never gotten their command down. Nola has turned into an ace, so 1 out of 3 turned into their potential.

 

Freddy Peralta pretty much only has a fastball. What we've actually seen is that when his command is off he has absolutely nothing to fall back on and gets in a lot of trouble in a hurry. He also does not pitch very well from the stretch. This is probably because of his release point changing and a lot of the strength of his fastball is based on the deceptive forward release. Peralta has loads of talent but he also has flaws and they are flaws that could really be his downfall if he doesn't fix them.

 

Corbin Burnes has a fantastic fastball with insane spin on it but he even admits that he can't control the natural cut on it. This means when he misses he usually misses by quite a bit. It is why when he did give up contact last year it was very hard contact. We only have a 1 game sample as a starter but in that one game he gave up 3 hard hit HRs. He is also just a 2 pitch pitcher which tends to mean he will struggle the third time through the order as we get a bigger sample on him. He really needs to develop a reliable third pitch.

 

Brandon Woodruff is more of the middle ground. He has a deep arsenal and decent control. He is the safest one to pencil in for a sub 4 ERA for the year but also the one that probably doesn't have ace upside.

 

There is a ton of talent here but there is certainly a lot of risk as well. In addition there is a serious question of season long pitch counts. How are they going to protect these guys innings in such a way that they aren't worn down for the playoffs. Woodruff probably shouldn't break 160 IP, Burnes can maybe get to 180 if we stretch it and Peralta is probably capped at like 170. They are all going to need at least a 15 day IL stint or a half month in the bullpen to make it.

[Brew crew 92]

You can sit here and just insult everyone who doesn't agree with you and not add any constructive opinion about it other than I've seen them pitch I know what they are, but it just isn't a compelling argument. Major league history is full of talented pitchers who had some sort of flaw hold them back from showing their full potential. To use another trio that is as talented if not more just look at the Phillies with Pivetta, Ray and Nola. 3 years ago they were being hyped up more than this Brewers trio. Their talent is off the charts but Pivetta and Ray have never gotten their command down. Nola has turned into an ace, so 1 out of 3 turned into their potential.

 

Freddy Peralta pretty much only has a fastball. What we've actually seen is that when his command is off he has absolutely nothing to fall back on and gets in a lot of trouble in a hurry. He also does not pitch very well from the stretch. This is probably because of his release point changing and a lot of the strength of his fastball is based on the deceptive forward release. Peralta has loads of talent but he also has flaws and they are flaws that could really be his downfall if he doesn't fix them.

 

Corbin Burnes has a fantastic fastball with insane spin on it but he even admits that he can't control the natural cut on it. This means when he misses he usually misses by quite a bit. It is why when he did give up contact last year it was very hard contact. We only have a 1 game sample as a starter but in that one game he gave up 3 hard hit HRs. He is also just a 2 pitch pitcher which tends to mean he will struggle the third time through the order as we get a bigger sample on him. He really needs to develop a reliable third pitch.

 

Brandon Woodruff is more of the middle ground. He has a deep arsenal and decent control. He is the safest one to pencil in for a sub 4 ERA for the year but also the one that probably doesn't have ace upside.

 

There is a ton of talent here but there is certainly a lot of risk as well. In addition there is a serious question of season long pitch counts. How are they going to protect these guys innings in such a way that they aren't worn down for the playoffs. Woodruff probably shouldn't break 160 IP, Burnes can maybe get to 180 if we stretch it and Peralta is probably capped at like 170. They are all going to need at least a 15 day IL stint or a half month in the bullpen to make it.

 

I obviously disagree with most of what you said.

 

Woodruff’s “deep arsenal of pitches” with “decent control” is half right in my opinion, Agree with his arsenal of pitches but think you underrate his command. TOR potential this year.

 

Burnes has more than 2 pitches NOW, he said after his start against cards, he chose to go with two pitches cause of how strong they were. He’ll work them in like he did against the blue jays in final exhibition game. Only thing keeping Burnes from being an ace now is in my opinion he’s around the plate TOO MUCH. TOR/ACE this year.

 

Peralta just needs to pitch. He didn’t throw much from the stretch yesterday because of course he retired 20 in a row, but seemed to do alright against Puig. When he has command he’s unhittable, and I’m willing to accept a few clunkers till he improves said command. TOR potential.

 

I think your seriously underrating our pitchers and your dislike of me and my posts are potentially clouding your judgement.