Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers

[sveumrules]

LOL @ Mets fans saying that Brox is being brought in to back up Juan Lagares. Lagares is oft-injured, and pretty beyond useless when he is healthy. He's also extremely overpaid.

 

Obviously have to see how the season plays out, but Lagares started game one.

 

The Brewers have started plenty of bad players over better options. Lagares is a bad, bad player.

 

Lagares career | 1,837 PA | 12.9 bWAR | 8.2 fWAR | 4.2 bWAR/600 PA | 2.7 fWAR/600 PA

Broxton career | 798 PA | 4.1 bWAR | 3.4 fWAR | 3.1 bWAR/600 PA | 2.6 fWAR/600 PA

 

Lagares may indeed be a bad, bad player but Broxton has been just as bad, bad if not a little bit worse, worse to this point.

[JosephC]

I thought the Mets made it known from the moment the trade was made that they saw Broxton as a fourth outfielder.

 

Lagares is a plus-plus-plus defensive centerfielder. I think the Mets are happy just playing him for defense with that pitching staff and after adding Cano and Ramos to the offense.

[IIAY]

Broxton was just DFA'd by the Mets.

[patrickgpe]

well this was the point of the trade, he had no options and nowhere to play in Milwaukee. The fact that they got a guy who was expected to contribute in the pen for him was pretty darn good.

[KeithStone53151]

I would 100% be open to a minor league deal for Keon if he doesn't get a better opportunity. I would rather he found a better opportunity as a fan of his though...

[NYChez]

[pacopete4]

The reason why..

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Too bad. I always liked him. He was great with fans.

[PeaveyFury]

As Keith said, I'd sign him to a minor league deal for sure if he's interested. He's exactly the type of player you want on your bench in September as a PR/late inning defensive OF replacement.

[DHonks]

If Gamel weren't playing so well as a 4th OF, he'd be a great pickup. Agree with others, I'd like him on a high-paying minor league deal

[bork]

And the Mets replaced him by recalling Carlos Gomez.

[clancyphile]

well this was the point of the trade, he had no options and nowhere to play in Milwaukee. The fact that they got a guy who was expected to contribute in the pen for him was pretty darn good.

 

Put it this way... Broxton is a plus-plus defender with a lot of speed (49 for 61 in SB with the Crew), solid OBP skills (87 BB in about 800 plate appearances), and a fair bit of power (33 HR).

 

Lorenzo Cain is an upgrade, albeit a costly one. Would the Brewers be as good with Broxton versus Cain? Open for debate. But after 2018, and with the acquisition of Ben Gamel, Broxton was not going to be a Brewer one way or another. They could outright him, but there was no room at AAA between Taylor, Ray, and Stokes.

[TURBO]

Would the Brewers be as good with Broxton versus Cain? Open for debate.

 

Seriously?

 

That would be an awful short debate.

[clancyphile]

Would the Brewers be as good with Broxton versus Cain? Open for debate.

 

Seriously?

 

That would be an awful short debate.

 

Cain's five-year, $80 million deal does create some opportunity cost. $16 million a year is not exactly chump change, but for his Career OPS+ of 108 and defense, it wasn't bad per se. But that $16 million is money that can't go elsewhere.

 

How much would Keon have cost? Maybe half that at most if the Crew bought out his arby years and two free agent years? You get better defense, and an OPS+ of 91 with the Crew.

 

For instance, no Cain probably gives the Crew the financial flexibility to give Grandal a multi-year deal.

[pacopete4]

Keon isn’t good though.

[clancyphile]

Keon isn’t good though.

 

In 2018, he may have had a sub-Uecker average in 89 plate appearances, but was still 1.6 wins above replacement.

 

Overall, he had 4.2 wins above replacement in Milwaukee.

 

As a 4th outfielder, not conventional in terms of his offensive profile, but he provides excellent defense.

[PeaveyFury]

And Cain was 6.9 wins above replacement just last year, clancy. As others have said, they’re on two different planets as players.

 

Like I said earlier, Keon fits a role for the Brewers. But it’s a well defined, narrow one that would have to be at the right cost.

[SomewhereInTime]

Keon isn’t good though.

 

In 2018, he may have had a sub-Uecker average in 89 plate appearances, but was still 1.6 wins above replacement.

 

Overall, he had 4.2 wins above replacement in Milwaukee.

 

As a 4th outfielder, not conventional in terms of his offensive profile, but he provides excellent defense.

 

WAR is absolutely meaningless in 89 PA's, especially when most of it comes from defense (and especially when it's from an outfielder).

[Brew crew 92]

Keon isn’t good though.

 

In 2018, he may have had a sub-Uecker average in 89 plate appearances, but was still 1.6 wins above replacement.

 

Overall, he had 4.2 wins above replacement in Milwaukee.

 

As a 4th outfielder, not conventional in terms of his offensive profile, but he provides excellent defense.

 

But, the thing is, and I know this is going to be hard to believe, but since leaving the crew he’s actually REGRESSED as a hitter. But minor league deal then in sept as a pinch runner/ defensive replacement could help us win a game? We just can’t let him hit.

[JosephC]

I think the Mets botched this one. Not trading for Broxton, but essentially giving up on him too soon. Maybe Gomez rebounds from a pretty bad 2018 season, but I just never saw him as a guy that would age gracefully in baseball terms. Broxton was off to a terrible start, but he's a much better offensive player that what he showed so far in a Mets uniform. And I don't think there is any comparison defensively. Gomez was once an elite defender, but Broxton is a far better with the glove these days. It's pretty debatable whether Gomez can even play a fairly effective centerfield anymore.

 

I don't think there is a place for Broxton back on the Brewer's 40-man roster, but there should be around a half dozen MLB teams which should be tripping over one another in trying to acquire him. I would have to think the Mets get trade offers, even though everyone will low-ball them now because they've DFA'ed him.

 

I don't know if these numbers are right, but I just checked team OPS by players playing centerfield, and 20 of the teams have a centerfield OPS below .700 (Brewers are 12th at .697). 10 of the teams have a CF OPS below .650 and 7 of those teams have a CF OPS below .600. Have to believe there would be about 10 teams that would have serious interest in Broxton.

[wntrtxn21]

I think the Mets botched this one. Not trading for Broxton, but essentially giving up on him too soon. Maybe Gomez rebounds from a pretty bad 2018 season, but I just never saw him as a guy that would age gracefully in baseball terms. Broxton was off to a terrible start, but he's a much better offensive player that what he showed so far in a Mets uniform. And I don't think there is any comparison defensively. Gomez was once an elite defender, but Broxton is a far better with the glove these days. It's pretty debatable whether Gomez can even play a fairly effective centerfield anymore.

 

I don't think there is a place for Broxton back on the Brewer's 40-man roster, but there should be around a half dozen MLB teams which should be tripping over one another in trying to acquire him. I would have to think the Mets get trade offers, even though everyone will low-ball them now because they've DFA'ed him.

 

I don't know if these numbers are right, but I just checked team OPS by players playing centerfield, and 20 of the teams have a centerfield OPS below .700 (Brewers are 12th at .697). 10 of the teams have a CF OPS below .650 and 7 of those teams have a CF OPS below .600. Have to believe there would be about 10 teams that would have serious interest in Broxton.

 

Broxton's bat will deter most teams looking for help. He is not a bench-type player and needs every-day ABs to be even close to decent. Even in 2017 when he got over 440 ABs he was terrible. .220 BA/.299 OBP. Whiffed 40% of his ABs. He is a good glove that can't hit. I don't think there will be more than two teams even looking at him, and then it will be for a minor lg. contract.

[clancyphile]

Broxton's bat will deter most teams looking for help. He is not a bench-type player and needs every-day ABs to be even close to decent. Even in 2017 when he got over 440 ABs he was terrible. .220 BA/.299 OBP. Whiffed 40% of his ABs. He is a good glove that can't hit. I don't think there will be more than two teams even looking at him, and then it will be for a minor lg. contract.

 

Broxton still slugs and he has shown the ability to get on base via the walk.

 

You get him for his defense, his speed, and that power.

[Thurston Fluff]

Keon isn’t good though.

 

In 2018, he may have had a sub-Uecker average in 89 plate appearances, but was still 1.6 wins above replacement.

 

Overall, he had 4.2 wins above replacement in Milwaukee.

 

As a 4th outfielder, not conventional in terms of his offensive profile, but he provides excellent defense.

 

This seems like a misuse of wins above replacement. If it isn't then it says more about wins above replacement than it does Broxton. WAR is ok for a quick glance and does ok at giving a snapshot of offensive ability. It does not do so well with defense IMHO.

[liveforoctober]

Clancy, would the Angels be better with Keon in CF over Trout with all of the money savings? Why are all-star players ever signed if they can save the money and use it on a roster of replacement players with 1 plus skill?

[dlk9s]

I'm going to pretend the Broxton/Cain thing is just a fun intellectual exercise.