Weak 17 Game Thread Lions @ Packers

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Cheering for my second favorite team... whomever is playing the Vikings!

 

So far so good. #SKOLOL

[pacopete4]

That lame PI that gave the Vikes 3 points stinks. Bears have nothing to play for in second half with the Rams blowing out 9ers

[nodakfan17]

Fire Mark Murphy. He should not be immune from criticism.

 

He was handed an enviable situation when Bob Harlan retired and turned it into a dumpster fire.

 

Was he? Didn’t he have to deal with the Favre un-retirement disaster like immediately?

 

And is missing the playoffs two consecutive years after making it 8 straight really a dumpster fire?

I’ve been patient. I really have (and I apologize for taking out some of my frustration on Cole Madison in that previous thread). I defended TT/MM long after the 2014 NFC Championship Game. I preached patience when others were calling for heads to roll. But here we are - 0 for 8 after XLV. Kudos to Murphy for handling the Favre situation well and keeping the Packers in good financial shape, but it’s time, Man. It really is.

[young guns]

Man, so much talk from players about supporting philbin and playing hard this week for him resulted in this? Maybe they didn't really want philbin back either.

[PeaveyFury]

And while it is all pure speculation about demeantia, you’d have to be pretty blind to see that Thompson didn’t even look right in those last couple of years. That falls squarely on Murphy for letting it go so long.

 

For the record, I think this is a completely fair and accurate point.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

That lame PI that gave the Vikes 3 points stinks. Bears have nothing to play for in second half with the Rams blowing out 9ers

 

Vikings getting some gift penalties to keep drives alive. Man the Vikings look like absolute garbage.

[LouisEly]

Minnesota has started a UDFA and a 5th round pick at WR all season. They've combined for over 2300 yards receiving and 17 TDs, not including today's game.

[LouisEly]

Hopefully that stinker means there won't be any real interest in Philbin other than the consideration of going through the motions of an interview...

What I have heard is that he is not in consideration, and that they plan on interviewing at least 10 candidates. No reason to get worked up over any early interviewees.

[LouisEly]

I’ve been patient. I really have (and I apologize for taking out some of my frustration on Cole Madison in that previous thread).

Purely answering the question, there was a comment in an article back in early October that mentioned that the Packers were "expecting" Madison to be a part of their team next year.

 

There is no reason to revisit this until mini camp, which is almost five months away. Lots of things can happen in five months.

[nodakfan17]

I’ve been patient. I really have (and I apologize for taking out some of my frustration on Cole Madison in that previous thread).

Purely answering the question, there was a comment in an article back in early October that mentioned that the Packers were "expecting" Madison to be a part of their team next year.

 

There is no reason to revisit this until mini camp, which is almost five months away. Lots of things can happen in five months.

Totally agree and in hindsight, I’m embarrassed by the lack of empathy I displayed for Cole today.

[superfly]

I think folks underestimate the level of dumpster the Packers are close to (or already in). This is how you show your frustrated fans out the door on your own turf....being blanked 31 donut by the freaking LIONS? There are deeper issues than talent on this team...quite frankly some of them just plain don't give a rip in addition to stinking. The Jets and Lions are B-A-D football teams.

 

The inability to protect Aaron Rodgers up front has done this team in year after year. I'm sick and tired of hearing how hard a workers these guys on the OL are...Aaron is on a one way ticket to David Carr town via the sack. Bulaga is garbage and hurt constantly. There are no guards, Linsley is obviously average at best, and who knows if Bakhtiari is even as good as people claim he is. It's the same with the Vikings...the inability to have an OL that can be competent in the trenches ruins a football team.

 

This team is garbage and it starts up in the front office. Hi Mark thats you. Hope Gutekunst has a long term plan because were done if he fails. And no, I am actually happy we lost because of draft position...it just irritates me to no end to see this garbage product on the field while we hear how "close" they are. IE- stop setting sky high standards if you're a 6-10 operation. We literally would be a yearly 3-13 team without Rodgers or worse.

[trwi7]

I think folks underestimate the level of dumpster the Packers are close to (or already in). This is how you show your frustrated fans out the door on your own turf....being blanked 31 donut by the freaking LIONS? There are deeper issues than talent on this team...quite frankly some of them just plain don't give a rip in addition to stinking. The Jets and Lions are B-A-D football teams.

 

They were playing 8 of their 22 normal starters today at the start and then went to one of if not the worst QB's in the NFL early.

[superfly]

I think folks underestimate the level of dumpster the Packers are close to (or already in). This is how you show your frustrated fans out the door on your own turf....being blanked 31 donut by the freaking LIONS? There are deeper issues than talent on this team...quite frankly some of them just plain don't give a rip in addition to stinking. The Jets and Lions are B-A-D football teams.

 

They were playing 8 of their 22 normal starters today at the start and then went to one of if not the worst QB's in the NFL early.

 

And what exactly was the excuse for what went on in New York last week? We can play this game all night...they are a terrible operation and need to make some large changes both in the operational ranks as well as on the field. Too many butts have been comfortable for too many years around Lombardi Ave.

[nodakfan17]

In defense of Bulaga, that guy is tough. I thought he was done last year after 2 ACL’s and 8 years of wear and tear as a starting NFL lineman. He’s the only first round pick since since Raji / Matthews in 2009 to live up to his draft status (with the possible exception of Kenny Clark). That alone probably says a lot about the Packers’ current roster situation. It’s not his fault the Packers have failed to find a better RT to protect Rodgers. If this is the end of the line for him, then I wish him happy trails and hope to see him back in town someday for his Packer HOF induction.

[PeaveyFury]

I think folks underestimate the level of dumpster the Packers are close to (or already in).

 

I’d counter with: the Packers have had such a fantastic run of success over the past 25 years that an entire generation of fans doesn’t understand that this is what almost all organizations go through periodically. Calling missing the playoffs two consecutive years, one of which had the team’s HOF QB miss much of the year a dumpster fire suggests a lack of understanding of how truly terrible organizations that are actually dumpster fires really are.

 

It’s fair to be frustrated. I want to win every year, as we all do. I just don’t think it’s as dire as some seem to feel that it is.

[JosephC]

I'm not as down on this team as superfly but it's been pretty obvious the last couple of years that this team was basically Rodgers and little else. I saw Rodgers miss enough easy passes this year to know that he's on the decline. It's also more and more likely he will miss more games from here on out as the nagging injuries are really starting to pile up. Unless the front office can work some real magic, this is looking like a 6-7 win team the next couple of years while the foundation is rebuilt.

 

I'm really happy the Packers will be bringing in Milt Hendrickson (National Scout) from the Ravens. That's a pretty good move as the guy is widely respected and has a solid history with a pretty good organization.

[PeaveyFury]

I guess I just don’t see the rebuild that people seem to think is necessary. A ton of draft picks including two firsts and a high second. A lot of cap room. They can realistically fill 5-6 actual holes, and build back depth in the middle rounds. I have no doubts in my mind that they’ll be back in the playoffs next year unless Rodgers has a significant injury.

[pacopete4]

I guess I just don’t see the rebuild that people seem to think is necessary. A ton of draft picks including two firsts and a high second. A lot of cap room. They can realistically fill 5-6 actual holes, and build back depth in the middle rounds. I have no doubts in my mind that they’ll be back in the playoffs next year unless Rodgers has a significant injury.

 

This right here to me is what a small rebuild would be described as although you might be being light on only needing to fill 5-6 holes to be a playoff team again. It is filling the holes PLUS finding depth moves on top of it. Not only that but with a new coach comes new philosophy and there might be players we think are quality that might not be here next year. Lots of moving pieces going to be in place very soon.

[PeaveyFury]

I guess I just don’t see the rebuild that people seem to think is necessary. A ton of draft picks including two firsts and a high second. A lot of cap room. They can realistically fill 5-6 actual holes, and build back depth in the middle rounds. I have no doubts in my mind that they’ll be back in the playoffs next year unless Rodgers has a significant injury.

 

This right here to me is what a small rebuild would be described as although you might be being light on only needing to fill 5-6 holes to be a playoff team again. It is filling the holes PLUS finding depth moves on top of it. Not only that but with a new coach comes new philosophy and there might be players we think are quality that might not be here next year. Lots of moving pieces going to be in place very soon.

 

I think the rebuilding really did begin last year- they set themselves up to have a huge, important offseason this year. And for holes? RT, RG, safety, 2 edge rushers, and a veteran WR.... If they address those holes, what else keeps them out of the playoffs?

[nodakfan17]

I guess I just don’t see the rebuild that people seem to think is necessary. A ton of draft picks including two firsts and a high second. A lot of cap room. They can realistically fill 5-6 actual holes, and build back depth in the middle rounds. I have no doubts in my mind that they’ll be back in the playoffs next year unless Rodgers has a significant injury.

I share your optimism, but that doesn’t make me feel any better about the current roster. Sure, the inverse draft order has taken its toll and there’s always an element of luck involved, but the current talent void is mainly self-inflicted.

[pacopete4]

I guess I just don’t see the rebuild that people seem to think is necessary. A ton of draft picks including two firsts and a high second. A lot of cap room. They can realistically fill 5-6 actual holes, and build back depth in the middle rounds. I have no doubts in my mind that they’ll be back in the playoffs next year unless Rodgers has a significant injury.

 

This right here to me is what a small rebuild would be described as although you might be being light on only needing to fill 5-6 holes to be a playoff team again. It is filling the holes PLUS finding depth moves on top of it. Not only that but with a new coach comes new philosophy and there might be players we think are quality that might not be here next year. Lots of moving pieces going to be in place very soon.

 

I think the rebuilding really did begin last year- they set themselves up to have a huge, important offseason this year. And for holes? RT, RG, safety, 2 edge rushers, and a veteran WR.... If they address those holes, what else keeps them out of the playoffs?

 

Both safeties, I wouldn’t count on King as a starter so CB. Gets you up to 8 of 22 starting positions that need to be addressed. Along with many of the depth pieces. That’s a big turnover.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Both safeties, I wouldn’t count on King as a starter so CB. Gets you up to 8 of 22 starting positions that need to be addressed. Along with many of the depth pieces. That’s a big turnover.

 

A healthy King is the best CB on the field. Yes, even better than Alexander. That dude is good. Now, health is obviously an issue, but I think you have to pencil him in as a starter, while hoping guys like Jackson and Brown show improvement. King strikes me as the type of guy who will leave the Packers after an injury-plagued early career, and become a star someplace like Seattle.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is at safety. It is pretty obvious that they need a smart "field general" type back there to direct traffic. Both Brice and Jones showed signs of competent play at times, but the consistency definitely wasn't there. I think they are going to have to find one starting safety from the current roster, though. Maybe that player is ultimately Josh Jackson.

[PeaveyFury]

I’d like to see Jones given the opportunity to win one of the safety jobs, but that’s just IMO.

 

And I’d be somewhat surprised if the Packers used any of their capital to address CB, beyond a low-cost vet signing or mid/late depth pickups. It seems like one of the positive spots on the roster to me.

[LouisEly]

I guess I just don’t see the rebuild that people seem to think is necessary. A ton of draft picks including two firsts and a high second. A lot of cap room. They can realistically fill 5-6 actual holes, and build back depth in the middle rounds. I have no doubts in my mind that they’ll be back in the playoffs next year unless Rodgers has a significant injury.

Let's not underestimate this - the cap room they have. Look what the Bears were able to do with cap room - Allen Robinson ($14M/year), Akiem Hicks ($12M/year), Trey Burton ($8M/year), Danny Trevathan ($7M/year), Prince Amukamara ($9M/year), Taylor Gabriel ($6M/year). That's six starters for $50M/year.

 

If my calculations based on SportTrack's figures are correct, if they cut a few guys (Bulaga, Tramon Williams, Crosby, Graham) they could have $68M in cap space clear up. Factoring in contract raises (Rodgers - $6M, Linsley - $3.3M, Bakhtiari - $3M, Allison - RFA), they will probably be sitting at a little over $50M.

 

Graham is the tough one. In isolation, I can't see him back for $12.66M in cap hit - if they release him he will count $7.33M in dead cap but save $5.33M. On the other hand, Lewis and Kendricks are free agents, and if Graham is gone then the only returning TE is Tonyan. Maybe they can restructure his deal and give him $6M guaranteed for 2019 with nothing guaranteed for 2020, bringing his cap hit down to $9.66M, with the plan to fully release him after 2019 and counting only $3.66M dead cap against 2020.

 

Maybe they can do the same thing with Nick Perry - give him $8M guaranteed for 2019, reducing his cap hit from $14.7M to $11.7M ($11.1M is his dead cap if they release him). Based on their 2018 performances, those are salaries that are likely higher than they will get as free agents if they are released, making it appealing for both sides.

[CheezWizHed]

I’d like to see Jones given the opportunity to win one of the safety jobs, but that’s just IMO.

 

And I’d be somewhat surprised if the Packers used any of their capital to address CB, beyond a low-cost vet signing or mid/late depth pickups. It seems like one of the positive spots on the roster to me.

 

Hasn't Jones been given that chance? Both HHCD and Burnett left in the last two years. We were starting Williams and Brice... If he can't win a job there, I'm not sure he will.

 

But I do agree with the CB situation. If they can hold on to Breeland (and King can stay healthy), CB is as deep as I can remember.

 

I'm finishing up an evalutation of the roster and will be out soon. Should spark some interesting debate given this last 1.5 pages of comments...