Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE

[folly412]

Saw this blurb in The Athletic today discussing defense of various teams

 

Early returns on Domingo Santana are also poor. He’s already cost them nine runs and leads outfielders with 11 Defensive Misplays and Errors. How does a team overcome that kind of defense? Hit 2.5 home runs per game.

 

 

I tried to forget how terrible he was defensively. Was wondering how his WAR was .1 despite really good offensive numbers and leading the AL in RBIs. His oWAR is .9, and his defense is so bad it offsets.

[stoutdude04]

He really needs to be a DH. One of a pair that I can think of thatd be nice to have if the crew was in the AL. Oh well.

[MrTPlush]

I remember when we got him his defense was plus. Haha wow...

[tmwiese55]

He really needs to be a DH. One of a pair that I can think of thatd be nice to have if the crew was in the AL. Oh well.

 

I'd guess they planned on a lot DH starts for him but they have that other guy who came out of nowhere who just keeps hitting with the weird last name so they can't take him out of the lineup.

 

Remember when we played Domingo in CF his first late season call up? Braun was probably in RF. Who was left, Davis? Did we really have an OF D of Davis, Santana, Braun? Wow.

[Outlander]

He really needs to be a DH. One of a pair that I can think of thatd be nice to have if the crew was in the AL. Oh well.

 

I'd guess they planned on a lot DH starts for him but they have that other guy who came out of nowhere who just keeps hitting with the weird last name so they can't take him out of the lineup.

 

Remember when we played Domingo in CF his first late season call up? Braun was probably in RF. Who was left, Davis? Did we really have an OF D of Davis, Santana, Braun? Wow.

Yeah, Vogelbach. Kind of hard to take him out of the lineup when he is leading the league in slugging and OPS.

[coolhandluke121]

It's not that I mind them trading Santana per se. It's that they had to trade him when his value was at an all-time low, just to accommodate Braun. It's the Khris Davis situation all over again. Neither one was a long-term piece, but they're both clearly very talented hitters. It just sucks that they had to sell low on guys like that (and move Yelich out of position) to make room in LF for a $20m player worth ~1 WAR per season... and this year, that's if we're lucky.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It's not that I mind them trading Santana per se. It's that they had to trade him when his value was at an all-time low, just to accommodate Braun. It's the Khris Davis situation all over again. Neither one was a long-term piece, but they're both clearly very talented hitters. It just sucks that they had to sell low on guys like that (and move Yelich out of position) to make room in LF for a $20m player worth ~1 WAR per season... and this year, that's if we're lucky.

 

Well, there's a rock, and there's a hard place, and between those is where David Stearns currently resides in regards to Braun. There is no easy solution. His production arguably doesn't warrant consistent playing time any longer, but as a small market team, how do you justify paying him $20 million to play on the short end of a platoon?

[adambr2]

It's not that I mind them trading Santana per se. It's that they had to trade him when his value was at an all-time low, just to accommodate Braun. It's the Khris Davis situation all over again. Neither one was a long-term piece, but they're both clearly very talented hitters. It just sucks that they had to sell low on guys like that (and move Yelich out of position) to make room in LF for a $20m player worth ~1 WAR per season... and this year, that's if we're lucky.

 

Well, there's a rock, and there's a hard place, and between those is where David Stearns currently resides in regards to Braun. There is no easy solution. His production arguably doesn't warrant consistent playing time any longer, but as a small market team, how do you justify paying him $20 million to play on the short end of a platoon?

 

His $20M annually is a sunk cost. We can't get it back. It's incurred. Organizations and people in general get too caught up trying to recover the value of a sunk cost. It's like a guy at the casino having lost $2,000 pressing on to try to recover it. If he's a platoon player, he's a platoon player -- salary should play no part in it.

[coolhandluke121]

 

Well, there's a rock, and there's a hard place, and between those is where David Stearns currently resides in regards to Braun. There is no easy solution. His production arguably doesn't warrant consistent playing time any longer, but as a small market team, how do you justify paying him $20 million to play on the short end of a platoon?

 

I know. I understand that and I have my fingers crossed with regard to his production, just like everyone else. But it still bugs me that people refuse to acknowledge the consequences of their failure to move him in 2016, and that we had people in here saying he would be an MVP candidate again this year. A lot of us predicted Santana would be better than Braun this year, and I'm tired of getting the "you're just a Braun hater" thing when the criticisms are totally valid regardless of how you feel about him.

 

Who's next to be jettisoned to keep the curse going? I'd just release him if he's not making progress by the ASB, if not sooner.

[pacopete4]

I think you may need to talk to someone regarding Braun and it bugging you so much. I mean, whoa.

[coolhandluke121]

I think anyone who is still rationalizing everything that's gone down with regard to Braun for the last 3 years is the person who needs to "talk to someone" about their feelings, but whatever.

[torts]

Ryan Braun Forever.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Ryan Braun has no trade value.

[Roderick]

The trade made this Seattle website list

 

https://sodomojo.com/2019/04/22/mariners-five-best-trades-dipoto-era/2/

[adambr2]

Ryan Braun has no trade value.

 

He was talking 2016. I don't think anyone would argue that he isn't untradeable/has no trade value now.

[owbc]

Ryan Braun has no trade value.

 

He was talking 2016. I don't think anyone would argue that he isn't untradeable/has no trade value now.

 

Braun needs a good benching, a full week or so. I'm still confident that some more value can be squeezed out of him (see 2018 vs. 2019 Felix Hernandez), but he needs to get a little wake up call first.

[adambr2]

Ryan Braun has no trade value.

 

He was talking 2016. I don't think anyone would argue that he isn't untradeable/has no trade value now.

 

Braun needs a good benching, a full week or so. I'm still confident that some more value can be squeezed out of him (see 2018 vs. 2019 Felix Hernandez), but he needs to get a little wake up call first.

 

I guess I don't see how this is going to help. I don't think it's that he's not trying or anything. He's just not that good anymore.

[OnTheBlack]

 

Well, there's a rock, and there's a hard place, and between those is where David Stearns currently resides in regards to Braun. There is no easy solution. His production arguably doesn't warrant consistent playing time any longer, but as a small market team, how do you justify paying him $20 million to play on the short end of a platoon?

 

I know. I understand that and I have my fingers crossed with regard to his production, just like everyone else. But it still bugs me that people refuse to acknowledge the consequences of their failure to move him in 2016, and that we had people in here saying he would be an MVP candidate again this year. A lot of us predicted Santana would be better than Braun this year, and I'm tired of getting the "you're just a Braun hater" thing when the criticisms are totally valid regardless of how you feel about him.

 

Who's next to be jettisoned to keep the curse going? I'd just release him if he's not making progress by the ASB, if not sooner.

 

Who are all the people who've "refused to acknowledge" this? It feels more like an excuse to just be able to keep banging your head against the wall saying the same thing over and over until there's literally not a single person left who disagrees. Problem is....I haven't really seen anyone disagreeing.

 

Edit-I also REALLY haven't seen this call for Braun to be the 2019 MVP this year. Is this like there being "people on here" who want to move Braun back to 3rd base? Doesn't really seem to be an overwhelming theme.

[OnTheBlack]

Ryan Braun has no trade value.

 

He was talking 2016. I don't think anyone would argue that he isn't untradeable/has no trade value now.

 

Braun needs a good benching, a full week or so. I'm still confident that some more value can be squeezed out of him (see 2018 vs. 2019 Felix Hernandez), but he needs to get a little wake up call first.

 

 

 

What do you think this is going to do? He's a grown man. This isn't like Bo Ryan benching a guy for a turnover. A benching(good or bad) isn't going to do much for Braun.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Braun is 36, made of cracked glass and Bubblegum and duct tape, and just isn't that good anymore. Most 36 year old ball players just really aren't that good. Every year he comes to spring training and he's like man I'm really feeling good this year this is the best I've felt in a while, and a lot of people buy into that and think that's going to be the year he's going to play a hundred and thirty games and suddenly have a 950 ops again.

 

Dude is our Pujols. He is done. He might get hot for a week here or there and have a nice stretch of games. But as far as being an effective regular player that time is done. He's 36 years old. Unless he gets back on the juice, he's done being an effective regular player. He's 36, he's past his prime. He's way past his prime. He doesn't have the bat speed or reflexes to be swinging that telephone pole of a bat he insists on carrying up to the plate with him every time he goes up there. He can't protect the inside corner and he doesn't have the bat speed to drive outside pitches to right field anymore.

 

The Santana trade is done. It is what it is we got a guy who will be a good fourth outfielder and a decent pinch hitter and an occasional spot starter. Lamenting that Santana is gone doesn't really bother me. He is one of the worst defensive outfielders in The Game and his defense is so bad it will offset whatever offense he provides unless his Ops is 950 or better all season.

 

Our best hope now is that Corey Ray or Taylor or someone else will take that next step forward soon

[adambr2]

Braun is 36, made of cracked glass and Bubblegum and duct tape, and just isn't that good anymore. Most 36 year old ball players just really aren't that good. Every year he comes to spring training and he's like man I'm really feeling good this year this is the best I've felt in a while, and a lot of people buy into that and think that's going to be the year he's going to play a hundred and thirty games and suddenly have a 950 ops again.

 

Dude is our Pujols. He is done. He might get hot for a week here or there and have a nice stretch of games. But as far as being an effective regular player that time is done. He's 36 years old. Unless he gets back on the juice, he's done being an effective regular player. He's 36, he's past his prime. He's way past his prime. He doesn't have the bat speed or reflexes to be swinging that telephone pole of a bat he insists on carrying up to the plate with him every time he goes up there. He can't protect the inside corner and he doesn't have the bat speed to drive outside pitches to right field anymore.

 

The Santana trade is done. It is what it is we got a guy who will be a good fourth outfielder and a decent pinch hitter and an occasional spot starter. Lamenting that Santana is gone doesn't really bother me. He is one of the worst defensive outfielders in The Game and his defense is so bad it will offset whatever offense he provides unless his Ops is 950 or better all season.

 

Our best hope now is that Corey Ray or Taylor or someone else will take that next step forward soon

 

I think this pretty much nails everything on Braun. I think there's a group of people who still look at Braun through glasses tinted by his legacy and who he once was. To me, it's not the bat weight, it's not the launch angle, it's not anything within his control anymore. He is an old baseball player and the odds of him discovering the fountain of youth at this point and having a big rebound year are very slim.

 

I can understand appreciation for Braun's legacy. I'm not personally a huge fan, but I can understand it. What I can't understand is the hyperbole that we still see from time to time (he's still one of the best hitters in the game, etc. No, he's not.)

 

I agree that Santana, who has cooled off, is probably a .850ish OPS guy at best who shouldn't play in the field. In essence, Khris Davis with less power.

 

I saw some discussion about the Mitch Haniger trade yesterday and I think one of the ironies of it is that if we hadn't, we probably are comfortable enough to pull the trigger on the Braun trade in 2016. I do wonder who the two mystery 'prospects' were on the Braun deal and hope they were no one of any significance.

[TURBO]

Is Braun under contract through 2020, or 2022?

[adambr2]

Is Braun under contract through 2020, or 2022?

 

2020. Club option for 2021 which can be bought out for 4 million.

[Oxy]

Is Braun under contract through 2020, or 2022?

 

[IIAY]

Through games of May 1:

 

Santana: .284/.349/.470, 819 OPS, 0.0 bWAR (0.8 oWAR, -1.0 dWAR)

Gamel: .288/.391/.424, 815 OPS, 1.0 bWAR (0.4 oWAR, 0.6 dWAR)

 

I really hope we continue to see Gamel start regularly against RHP in place of Braun, at least as long as he continues to produce as he has so far.