Jordan Lyles to Pirates

[TURBO]

Jon Heyman of FanCred Sports hears that a deal between the Pirates and Jordan Lyles has been agreed to, pending a physical.

 

Joel Sherman of the New York Post previously mentioned that a deal was close. Lyles showed improved stuff in 2018 while posting a 4.11 ERA and 84/28 K/BB ratio over 87 2/3 innings between the Brewers and Padres. He'll offer depth between the bullpen and rotation with his new team.

 

Source: Jon Heyman on TwitterDec 11 - 2:51 PM

[bill hAll Star]

All I can think of is that the "Jordan Lyles game" occurred against the Pirates. So, there's that.

[pacopete4]

15 innings. What a game! Without Lyles efforts we don’t win the central.

[reillymcshane]

Lyles has a keen eye at the plate. He walked 33.3% of the time last season.

[topper09er]

Obviously the Pirates liked his approach at the plate

[dlk9s]

I love how just about everybody on the Brewers had a moment this year.

[Eye Black]

Fangraphs article on Jordan Lyles: The Pirates Just Picked Up a Good Little Bargain

 

Curious to see if they use him exclusively out of the bullpen. It will be interesting to see how he fares in Pittsburgh this year.

[And That]

Said it before but I think this was a decently sized mistake by the Brewers. Lyles has all the tools to be a very valuable pitcher and the Brewers could have retained him at a reasonable cost.

[Roderick]

Yeah, at $2.05M, I would have kept him. Great insurance policy if you trade Chase Anderson, and something happens to a couple of the other projected starters.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Lyles was tossing it in there at an easy 97 with good movement in several of his appearances. He's got a terrific arm, and I agree he would have been a very nice arm to add to that stable of heat throwers. However, with the young guys likely getting more work this year, and Houser out of options and needing to stay up as an MLB pen arm, there may not have been room for Lyles. I'm positive they'll sign several Lyles-like MLB arms to minors deals and bring them to Spring Training, though, with the hope that they find a couple hidden gems.

[long ball]

Lyles was tossing it in there at an easy 97 with good movement in several of his appearances. He's got a terrific arm, and I agree he would have been a very nice arm to add to that stable of heat throwers. However, with the young guys likely getting more work this year, and Houser out of options and needing to stay up as an MLB pen arm, there may not have been room for Lyles. I'm positive they'll sign several Lyles-like MLB arms to minors deals and bring them to Spring Training, though, with the hope that they find a couple hidden gems.

 

I agree. There just wasn't room on the roster to give Lyles his guaranteed deal. They already have 12 pitchers who seem probable to make the opening day roster if healthy and then Houser, Barnes, Williams, Peralta ready just behind them. They have probably 8 guys ahead of him for a rotation spot.

 

I like Lyles, but the Brewers need more flexibility with their last man in the pen. I agree that they'll likely add several guys on minor league deals. Stash them in the minors until they use them on a one time call up like JJ Hoover and then DFA them after a couple of ineffective innings.

[LouisEly]

Not only Houser, but I think they are going to move Guerra to the pen to be an additional long reliever/swing man. In a very small sample he looked very good in that role.

 

RHRP: Knebel, Jeffress, Guerra, Williams, Barnes, Houser, maybe Woodruff or Peralta for a year or half-year like they did with Burnes... likely no room at the inn for another RHRP. They need to add LHRP.

 

Could maybe make an argument for Lyles vs. Barnes or Williams, but Barnes and Williams are pre-arb in 2019 and will cost much less than Lyles. Lyles had about the same OPS-A as Barnes, but Lyles had a higher FIP due to a much higher HR rate than Barnes. Barnes will walk some guys, but doesn't give up many HRs.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Not only Houser, but I think they are going to move Guerra to the pen to be an additional long reliever/swing man. In a very small sample he looked very good in that role.

 

RHRP: Knebel, Jeffress, Guerra, Williams, Barnes, Houser, maybe Woodruff or Peralta for a year or half-year like they did with Burnes... likely no room at the inn for another RHRP. They need to add LHRP.

 

Could maybe make an argument for Lyles vs. Barnes or Williams, but Barnes and Williams are pre-arb in 2019 and will cost much less than Lyles. Lyles had about the same OPS-A as Barnes, but Lyles had a higher FIP due to a much higher HR rate than Barnes. Barnes will walk some guys, but doesn't give up many HRs.

 

I'm sure Claudio will fill that role. I think they'll sign a lefty reliever to a minors deal as well.

[long ball]

Not only Houser, but I think they are going to move Guerra to the pen to be an additional long reliever/swing man. In a very small sample he looked very good in that role.

 

RHRP: Knebel, Jeffress, Guerra, Williams, Barnes, Houser, maybe Woodruff or Peralta for a year or half-year like they did with Burnes... likely no room at the inn for another RHRP. They need to add LHRP.

 

Could maybe make an argument for Lyles vs. Barnes or Williams, but Barnes and Williams are pre-arb in 2019 and will cost much less than Lyles. Lyles had about the same OPS-A as Barnes, but Lyles had a higher FIP due to a much higher HR rate than Barnes. Barnes will walk some guys, but doesn't give up many HRs.

 

I'm sure Claudio will fill that role. I think they'll sign a lefty reliever to a minors deal as well.

 

I can't wait for Mike Zagurski round 2

[long ball]

Not only Houser, but I think they are going to move Guerra to the pen to be an additional long reliever/swing man. In a very small sample he looked very good in that role.

 

RHRP: Knebel, Jeffress, Guerra, Williams, Barnes, Houser, maybe Woodruff or Peralta for a year or half-year like they did with Burnes... likely no room at the inn for another RHRP. They need to add LHRP.

 

Could maybe make an argument for Lyles vs. Barnes or Williams, but Barnes and Williams are pre-arb in 2019 and will cost much less than Lyles. Lyles had about the same OPS-A as Barnes, but Lyles had a higher FIP due to a much higher HR rate than Barnes. Barnes will walk some guys, but doesn't give up many HRs.

 

I'm sure Claudio will fill that role. I think they'll sign a lefty reliever to a minors deal as well.

 

I can't wait for Mike Zagurski round 2

[sveumrules]

Yeah, at $2.05M, I would have kept him. Great insurance policy if you trade Chase Anderson, and something happens to a couple of the other projected starters.

 

His option was for 3.5 million, so he would have cost us a little more to retain.

 

I'm guessing cost & being out of options were just too much to overcome with cheaper, optionable alternatives who likely carry similar internal projections on hand.

[Roderick]

Yeah, at $2.05M, I would have kept him. Great insurance policy if you trade Chase Anderson, and something happens to a couple of the other projected starters.

 

His option was for 3.5 million, so he would have cost us a little more to retain.

 

I'm guessing cost & being out of options were just too much to overcome with cheaper, optionable alternatives who likely carry similar internal projections on hand.

 

Yes, I wouldn't have paid that much on the option either. But, they could have been negotiating for him the same as the Pirates, so maybe it would have cost $2.2M or something with bidding. I like that he could go three innings on any particular day and the potential that you maybe feel is still a little untapped.

[pacopete4]

I do agree that Lyles will be an interesting player to follow this season. This post might RIP as much as a lot of our offseason worries but this is one that could be a sad one to look back. Ya just never know I guess.

[And That]

RHRP: Knebel, Jeffress, Guerra, Williams, Barnes, Houser, maybe Woodruff or Peralta for a year or half-year like they did with Burnes... likely no room at the inn for another RHRP. They need to add LHRP.

Guerra, Williams, Barnes, Woodruff, and Peralta can all be optioned, and injuries will happen. Neither Williams nor Barnes are good/consistent enough that they should be handed spots in the bullpen. This kind of reminds me of people not wanting to sign Charlie Morton a few years ago because we already had Matt Garza, Wily Peralta, and Taylor Jungmann.

 

Lyles barely would basically have to be as good as he's been to this point in his career to be worth $3.5 million, and he has a lot of upside well past $3.5 million of value. I just think it was a mistake letting him go, and he went to another team in the division to boot.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

RHRP: Knebel, Jeffress, Guerra, Williams, Barnes, Houser, maybe Woodruff or Peralta for a year or half-year like they did with Burnes... likely no room at the inn for another RHRP. They need to add LHRP.

Guerra, Williams, Barnes, Woodruff, and Peralta can all be optioned, and injuries will happen. Neither Williams nor Barnes are good/consistent enough that they should be handed spots in the bullpen. This kind of reminds me of people not wanting to sign Charlie Morton a few years ago because we already had Matt Garza, Wily Peralta, and Taylor Jungmann.

 

Lyles barely would basically have to be as good as he's been to this point in his career to be worth $3.5 million, and he has a lot of upside well past $3.5 million of value. I just think it was a mistake letting him go, and he went to another team in the division to boot.

 

Agreed. The state of this organization's pitching depth has certainly improved in the past couple years, but not to the point where they can jettison young (ish) power arms who are coming off decent years, are affordable, and have proven effective at retiring major league hitters.

[wallus]

Lyles was likely a payroll casualty. Stearns has pinched pennies so far this off-season which has made me believe we do not have as much payroll flexibility as some have mentioned. (Schoop, Lyles, trading for Claudino)

[xisxisxis]

Are there 2 players named Jordan Lyles, because I can't find the one anyone should be wringing their hands over losing...

[TURBO]

Lyles was likely a payroll casualty. Stearns has pinched pennies so far this off-season which has made me believe we do not have as much payroll flexibility as some have mentioned. (Schoop, Lyles, trading for Claudino)

 

Who is this Claudino I keep seeing reference to?

[LouisEly]

Neither Williams nor Barnes are good/consistent enough that they should be handed spots in the bullpen.

If neither Williams nor Barnes are good/consistent enough, then what does that make Lyles (who walked 9 in 16.1 IP for the Brewers last year)?

 

How are you going to determine who among them gets the roster spot(s)?

 

Williams is great against RHB. Barnes is the best of the three at keeping the ball in the park (and his BABIP last year suggested some bad luck). Williams and Barnes both were great against the Cubs and Cardinals last year. All three have issues with walks. All three throw 97.

 

My point is that there is no difference between them, so why take on the added salary?

[pacopete4]

Lyles was likely a payroll casualty. Stearns has pinched pennies so far this off-season which has made me believe we do not have as much payroll flexibility as some have mentioned. (Schoop, Lyles, trading for Claudino)

 

Who is this Claudino I keep seeing reference to?

[sarcasm]I really wish posters would proof read their posts around here.[/sarcasm]