Lee Smith and Harold Baines to the Hall of Fame

[JimH5]

Lee Smith and Harold Baines were selected by the Today's Game committee. Smith had a small amount of buzz, but Baines had none, and now both will join the class of 2019 in Cooperstown.

[JosephC]

Baines? Should take the "Today's Game Committee" no more than 10 years to completely water down the meaning of being a "Major League Baseball Hall of Famer."

[jerichoholicninja]

So was this basically everyone playing politics and an above average DH and closer accidentally get voted in?

 

Edit: Nevermind, I thought this was the "real" Hall of Fame voting. Still, pretty underwhelming.

[3and2Fastball]

Baines is really perplexing to me. Never won an MVP or batting title, never led the league in any batting category other than once he led the league in SLG. He was famous and played 22 years, I guess somehow that makes him a Hall of Famer?!

[NYChez]

Baines is 545th in career WAR, and there are 224 players in the HoF. Open the flood gates.

[502 to Right]

Baines being elected to the Hall of Fame is insane. It will need to be renamed the "Hall of Pretty Good."

[3and2Fastball]

Baines is 545th in career WAR, and there are 224 players in the HoF. Open the flood gates.

 

Ryan Braun has a 46.4 career WAR in 12 seasons

Harold Baines had a 38.7 career WAR in 22 seasons

[JimH5]

It clearly is not a committee that considered WAR or other advanced stats.

 

I would think Baines's case was made by his 2866 hits, and having Hall of Famers all around him on the leaderboard. He also had over 900 XBH and only struck out 100 times once. His throwing arm was good for around 10 OF assists per year until he lost it due to injury. I DON'T think Baines is a good selection, but he isn't without merit.

 

Edit--

I was wrong on the reason for Baines leaving RF for DH. He suffered a knee injury that led to chronic problems. It wasn't his arm.

[Bob Skube Snacks]

If Baines is in? I want Cecil Cooper in ... and I’m not joking.

[ougiqbxy]

I think Baines' selection was made to prompt writers to more seriously look at the case of Edgar Martinez.

[reillymcshane]

I liked Harold Baines. Really good player. NOT a hall of fame player.

[Kelbysdaddy]

Baines?.......But Ted Simmons still isn’t in? Lee Smith doesn’t bother me.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Wow, when I saw the list initially I figured no one would get elected and only Smith would garner more than a token vote or two. Is Frankie Frisch back on the committee?

[splitterpfj]

I always considered Lee Smith as a, "take him or leave him" candidate - I wouldn't have voted for him, but I don't think it's a problem that he's in.

 

I liked Harold Baines, I've always seen him as underrated - but I never once considered him a Hall of Famer - I still don't. If Baines had reached 3000 hits, he would have been voted in, and I would not have argued against it, because that's one place where the voters have been consistent, at least until you get to the Steroid Era.

 

If you take Baines as a DH, that's one thing, but if people buy him as a right fielder, this is a terrible development. Baines was a DH from age 28 - he was not a right fielder, but if you take him as one - you cannot vote against Dwight Evans, Reggie Smith, Dave Parker, Bobby Abreu, - I mean, what about Rusty Staub?

 

That committee had a former manager, GM, and owner of the White Sox from Baines' time there - they got this done.

 

End this committee, right now, they obviously lack integrity.

[remfire]

In my opinion, Smith deserved it. He should have got in the first time. Playing for 8 different teams across both leagues hurt him. Could never hang his hat on 1 franchise. He has been passed since, but when he retired he was the all time leader in saves. Saves as a stat doesn't hold the same merit now in 2018 as it did in the 80's and 90's, but being on top of this "major" statistical category is enough for me.

 

Baines...yikes. He was the most feared hitter in that soft, White Sox lineup of the 80's. He was the guy, when they played the Brewers, you would say to yourself "Crap. Baines is up." Jim had some great points looking at his career numbers but reilly said it best, "Really good player. NOT a hall of fame player." I'm also a little skeptical of anyone on those Baltimore Oriole teams of the early 90's in regards to enhancements.

[JimH5]

I applaud the Lee Smith selection. He retired as the career leader in saves. Pitched in over 1000 games. Finished more than 800. That's enough for me to think he was one of the best in the role that he was assigned. He threw in multi inning appearances through the 1980s and only became a one inning guy when everybody else did.

[MillerParkSouth]

If Baines is in? I want Cecil Cooper in ... and I’m not joking.

Ted Simmons, Whitaker, open it up. The HOF is a joke.

[Point Beer Is Best]

That committee had a former manager, GM, and owner of the White Sox from Baines' time there - they got this done.

 

End this committee, right now, they obviously lack integrity.

 

Agreed. This is pretty damning. Baines never garnerd more than 6.1% of the required 75% vote from the traditional BBWAA selection process and eventually fell off. This has moved the goal posts in a significant and irreversible way.

[coolhandluke121]

I applaud the Lee Smith selection. He retired as the career leader in saves. Pitched in over 1000 games. Finished more than 800. That's enough for me to think he was one of the best in the role that he was assigned. He threw in multi inning appearances through the 1980s and only became a one inning guy when everybody else did.

 

With some of the other closers that are in, he should be in... but many of the other closers shouldn't be in. It's a joke. There are probably hundreds of forgettable starters who could have been great closers. In fact, most closers are just that... failed starters. But you can close games and throw 95 m.p.h. heat or cut fastballs all the time without your arm falling off and voila, you're suddenly great. It's so stupid. Being an unhittable closer doesn't actually result in a lot more wins than just being an effective one. And Smith was far from unhittable. It's just laziness to look at what happened in the 9th inning and say that's what determined the game. It may have a disproportionate share of the suspense and tension you experience while watching, but it does not have any disproportionate influence on the outcome compared to other innings.

[Outlander]

This is bound to happen when only 16 people are voting.

[TURBO]

Kind of sad really...

[jerichoholicninja]

If you get a chance, read Bill James book "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame." The HOF jumped the shark pretty early on, like 5 years after it opened as it became about politics, PR, personal grudges, and voting in buddies. And of course the creation of all these stupid committees who's sole purpose is to get certain players voted in that the BBWA won't.

[HiAndTight]

Kind of sad really...

 

 

Nothing new. There are a lot of guys who don't deserve to be in the HOF who are in. Rizzuto, Sutter, Mazeroski…..the latter being especially bad. Meanwhile they don't know what to do with guys who were no doubt HOF'ers like Clemens and Bonds before most assumed they started juicing.

 

 

I don't know what the answer is, but the Hall of Fame needs figure out what the hell they're doing because it's always had deserving guys on the outside looking in and vice versa, but right now there's no real standard. You have to be wondering what a guy like Edgar Martinez is thinking watching someone like Harold Baines getting in to the HOF while he's not.

[clancyphile]

If it weren't for the 1981 and the 1994-1995 labor disputes, I think Baines definitely gets the 3,000 hits and about 400+ home runs. I'd probably have a lot of other players ahead of him for the HOF, but I think he probably got a mulligan for that, and it doesn't bother me that much. He played 22 seasons.

 

As for Lee Smith... I've got ZERO problems, and think he warranted the Hall of Fame. It's very simple: He and Bruce Sutter defined the modern relief pitcher as someone who closed out games. Sutter is already in... Smith deserved to be in as well.

[Outlander]

Kind of sad really...

 

 

Nothing new. There are a lot of guys who don't deserve to be in the HOF who are in. Rizzuto, Sutter, Mazeroski…..the latter being especially bad. Meanwhile they don't know what to do with guys who were no doubt HOF'ers like Clemens and Bonds before most assumed they started juicing.

 

 

I don't know what the answer is, but the Hall of Fame needs figure out what the hell they're doing because it's always had deserving guys on the outside looking in and vice versa, but right now there's no real standard. You have to be wondering what a guy like Edgar Martinez is thinking watching someone like Harold Baines getting in to the HOF while he's not.

Wouldn't upset Martinez, he will get voted in this year and if by some miracle the writers don't vote him in this year then this committee will let him in easily.