Brewers Inability to Make Moves

[pacopete4]

Fire Counsell?

[homer]

I wonder what they could get for Yelich?

[Oxy]

The entire roster has been re-hauled in the last 12 months (for the better), jettisoning nearly a dozen prospects we hugged too much?

[Oxy]

There will be moves made by April, which may not be big splash type moves, but after getting Chacin and Miley last year, I'd wait until at least August this year to be too critical of the FO.

[brewmann04]

I am sure DS will make a move and almost sure it be something no one has talked about.

[Dantae]

Trust the Process

[ctmyers]

Sure it’s December 5th. But the Cardinals got better, the Nationals got better, the Cubs will get better, and the Dodgers also will get better. Meanwhile the Brewers sit here agreeing to do nothing because they don’t want to spend a few extra dollars or trade off some prospects who possibly will never amount to anything. Sure the Brewer people think Hiura will be great, but if that’s the case then why isn’t he going to be on the opening day roster?? And don’t give me that stupid Super 2 answer, if he was good enough and they felt that he was the answer, they wouldn’t wait.

 

Why do you assume the Cubs and Dodgers will get better? We're working in a vacuum where only good moves occur before December 5th, correct?

[Jkromb]

Sure it’s December 5th. But the Cardinals got better, the Nationals got better, the Cubs will get better, and the Dodgers also will get better. Meanwhile the Brewers sit here agreeing to do nothing because they don’t want to spend a few extra dollars or trade off some prospects who possibly will never amount to anything. Sure the Brewer people think Hiura will be great, but if that’s the case then why isn’t he going to be on the opening day roster?? And don’t give me that stupid Super 2 answer, if he was good enough and they felt that he was the answer, they wouldn’t wait.

 

Why do you assume the Cubs and Dodgers will get better? We're working in a vacuum where only good moves occur before December 5th, correct?

 

Cubs and Dodgers aren’t afraid to spend money.. Machado and Harper could very easily go to those teams..

[reillymcshane]

The other thing about making moves to get better is that the 'getting better' part can often take place from within.

 

We had Burnes, Peralta and Woodruff for around 150 innings last year. Davies threw 350+ innings in 2016/17 for a 3.90ish ERA, but only threw 66 innings last year. Arcia hit .280+ over the last two months, and really produced in the playoffs. And what if Santana gets back to his 2017 form? A few of these guys could really take a step forward/rebound and make a huge difference in 2019.

 

No doubt we have some moves to make. I expect a left handed starter, a catcher and a 2B. Maybe a reliever. Also, no doubt some players regress in 2019. But we won 96 games last year, so I'm not going to worry if we settle on making modest moves to fill the holes we have. Yes, I'd love a big move like getting Thor or Bumgarner or Keuchel. But it has to be on our terms.

[pacopete4]

 

Cubs and Dodgers aren’t afraid to spend money.. Machado and Harper could very easily go to those teams..

 

The Brewers aren’t fearful of spending money. They just don’t have as much to spend as those teams you mentioned. I hope you get that if the Brewers choose the wrong large contract, it could cripple any of the progress they have made so far.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Sure it’s December 5th. But the Cardinals got better, the Nationals got better, the Cubs will get better, and the Dodgers also will get better. Meanwhile the Brewers sit here agreeing to do nothing because they don’t want to spend a few extra dollars or trade off some prospects who possibly will never amount to anything. Sure the Brewer people think Hiura will be great, but if that’s the case then why isn’t he going to be on the opening day roster?? And don’t give me that stupid Super 2 answer, if he was good enough and they felt that he was the answer, they wouldn’t wait.

 

Why do you assume the Cubs and Dodgers will get better? We're working in a vacuum where only good moves occur before December 5th, correct?

 

Cubs and Dodgers aren’t afraid to spend money.. Machado and Harper could very easily go to those teams..

 

You asked that this thread be unlocked so that it could be discussed. So what is the goal you have in mind for the Brewers? Do you think they are going to make some moves, or do you really believe they are going to sit idly by while the other NL playoff contenders improve?

[FVBrewerFan]

Doesn't someone here have a signature along the line of "David Stearns doesn't panic like you do" ?

 

Seems to sum it up. If you expect the Brewers to spend as much money as the Cubs and Dodgers can and do, you will always be disappointed.

[SoCalBrewfan]

Journalists and fans like to talk about who wins the offseason. It is very rarely true that the teams perceived to have added the most in the offseason are the teams that do well when the games start counting.

 

Here's an article from last December: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/sd-sp-mlb-early-offseason-winners-and-losers-20171215-story.html

 

Yankees, Angels, Cardinals. How'd that work out?

 

Here's another: https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/nationals/2018-mlb-offseason-grades-every-team

 

Again the Angels with an A. The World Series teams got a B+ and a C. Brewers got an A-, and you could certainly argue that they were an example of winning the offseason and having that show up on the field. But many of the most improved teams (Braves, A's) got middling grades.

 

I'm sure we'll make a few moves, but with luck we'll make them because the improve the team and not because some fans and journalists are bored.

[Brewcrewin07]

I think they will make some moves, but unfortunately, they will likely be very minor in nature and not "significant" needle moving deals. One game from the WS, is NOT the time to make minor moves, especially when you have to assume regression from some of the current players. And no, signing an insignificant 2B to fill the hole is NOT a needle mover. Some of you may perceive it that way because it's a hole on the current roster, but it's not significant. Significant is a trade for DeGrom, or Syndergaard, or Madbum...a Harper signing etc. Those are all needle movers.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think they will make some moves, but unfortunately, they will likely be very minor in nature and not "significant" needle moving deals. One game from the WS, is NOT the time to make minor moves, especially when you have to assume regression from some of the current players. And no, signing an insignificant 2B to fill the hole is NOT a needle mover. Some of you may perceive it that way because it's a hole on the current roster, but it's not significant. Significant is a trade for DeGrom, or Syndergaard, or Madbum...a Harper signing etc. Those are all needle movers.

 

Wasn't that the whole narrative of last offseason, to assume regression from a handful of key contributors to the 2017 team and wonder why more wasn't done to improve overall roster talent? That was even a concern after the Yelich trade and Cain signings. Well, that regression actually did happen, and the Brewers won ~ 10 more games despite that. Stearns proved last offseason he's capable of needle-moving deals, and honestly last week's release of Schoop paved the way for them to add significant payroll via trade or FA acquisition. The 40-man roster construction currently screams for a needle-moving trade for a starter along with a smart FA signing of either a catcher or 2B. I expect both to happen well before spring training opens, which is still months away - and it's not like the prime starting pitcher trade targets have already been dealt elsewhere.

 

Are you serious about the Brewers signing Harper? Sure, let's have the smallest market in baseball give out the largest FA contract in the history of the game, just one year after spending heavily in payroll and prospects to solidify the OF. And at this point, why in the world would the Mets trade DeGrom or Syndergaard after the moves they've just made, unless in Syndergaard's case they feel like he's on the verge of being damaged goods? I agree on seeing pitchers like MadBum, Ray, Bauer, Kluber, etc as impact fits for this team, but only if the price is reasonable.

[Jkromb]

 

Cubs and Dodgers aren’t afraid to spend money.. Machado and Harper could very easily go to those teams..

 

The Brewers aren’t fearful of spending money. They just don’t have as much to spend as those teams you mentioned. I hope you get that if the Brewers choose the wrong large contract, it could cripple any of the progress they have made so far.

 

So that means you don’t try?

[Brewcrewin07]

 

Cubs and Dodgers aren’t afraid to spend money.. Machado and Harper could very easily go to those teams..

 

The Brewers aren’t fearful of spending money. They just don’t have as much to spend as those teams you mentioned. I hope you get that if the Brewers choose the wrong large contract, it could cripple any of the progress they have made so far.

 

So that means you don’t try?

 

So...A. Don't choose the wrong one B. I would gladly take a World series title now for some down years 4-5 years from now.

[BillScottCanRake]

Why do the Brewers need to spend big money (meaning player salary and/or trading assets) to find a "needle mover" when they were within one game of making the World Series? They don't have to stand-pat, but there is plenty of area between doing nothing and adding one of the games top 10 or 15 players which would help make the team better.

 

I think the Brewers are better off making incremental improvements which have a reasonable cost instead of spending all their money and trade assets this Winter and leaving nothing to spend in June, July or August. If they "go for broke" this winter and something unexpected happens next summer, they could well find themselves being unable to fix the unforeseen issues through mid-season player acquisition.

 

I understand big splashes are exciting, but I don't think in this case it is necessary or advisable. No matter who they sign or trade, it guarantees them nothing next year. And since nothing is guaranteed, I'd prefer they retain some roster flexibility so they can add players/payroll if they so desire.

 

The other thing about waiting a bit to make their moves is there is a better chance the player they add is added at a more reasonable price. Obviously there is a balance, because if you wait too long to add a player they may no longer be available, but why pay a premium price if you don't have to?

[Brewcrewin07]

I think they will make some moves, but unfortunately, they will likely be very minor in nature and not "significant" needle moving deals. One game from the WS, is NOT the time to make minor moves, especially when you have to assume regression from some of the current players. And no, signing an insignificant 2B to fill the hole is NOT a needle mover. Some of you may perceive it that way because it's a hole on the current roster, but it's not significant. Significant is a trade for DeGrom, or Syndergaard, or Madbum...a Harper signing etc. Those are all needle movers.

 

Wasn't that the whole narrative of last offseason, to assume regression from a handful of key contributors to the 2017 team and wonder why more wasn't done to improve overall roster talent? That was even a concern after the Yelich trade and Cain signings. Well, that regression actually did happen, and the Brewers won ~ 10 more games despite that. Stearns proved last offseason he's capable of needle-moving deals, and honestly last week's release of Schoop paved the way for them to add significant payroll via trade or FA acquisition. The 40-man roster construction currently screams for a needle-moving trade for a starter along with a smart FA signing of either a catcher or 2B. I expect both to happen well before spring training opens, which is still months away - and it's not like the prime starting pitcher trade targets have already been dealt elsewhere.

 

Are you serious about the Brewers signing Harper? Sure, let's have the smallest market in baseball give out the largest FA contract in the history of the game, just one year after spending heavily in payroll and prospects to solidify the OF. And at this point, why in the world would the Mets trade DeGrom or Syndergaard after the moves they've just made, unless in Syndergaard's case they feel like he's on the verge of being damaged goods? I agree on seeing pitchers like MadBum, Ray, Bauer, Kluber, etc as impact fits for this team, but only if the price is reasonable.

 

I didn't mean to imply that the Brewers should sign Harper, I used it to emphasize a point that signing a player like him is a "needle mover", just as trading for Yelich was a needle mover. And yes, the Indians pitchers are PERFECT examples of the kinds of players they should be pursuing and are big time needle movers..yet we have heard NOTHING about any Brewer interest in any of them. As far as cost, there's a price for winning, and again, prospects are just that...prospects.

 

By the way, I think EVERY single fan base(in every sport) is guilty of this in some way or another, but why do fans care so much about the money that their teams spend or may or may not have?? That one has always perplexed me..it's not OUR $$, so what difference does it make?? If say Mark A Wanted to sign say Bryce Harper, who cares?? He writes the checks, not us as fans.

[KeithStone53151]

In fairness, the Brewers probably do need to get significantly better as everyone around us is improving(well except the cubs). That said, much of our improvement will probably come from within. Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta moving into greater roles and improving along with Hiura at 2b and Arcia likely being better at hitting than 2018 version. All that might not be enough to offset some likely regression. Yelich, Aguilar, Chacin, Cain, Jeffress are some likely regression guys. Yelich only because...there's only one place to go from MVP. The others are a bit more obvious.

 

There aren't a ton of obvious areas to add in my opinion. We have such a logjam of SP to clear, it's hard to justify adding one that isn't a true impact arm as doing so likely takes a job away from one of the 3 young SP. No sense in adding another Anderson/Chacin/Davies back end type and taking a job away from a potential young impact arm. Catcher is an obvious one, I do think we'll add someone to timeshare with Pina. I don't expect Kratz to make the opening day roster. We can always use a relief arm, but we have a bit of a logjam there too. Overall, I don't see us making a ton of moves this year. If anything, it will be trying to find takers for Santana/Thames/Anderson/Davies/Guerra and either backfill those spots...or fill them with impact players.

[BillScottCanRake]

So...A. Don't choose the wrong one B. I would gladly take a World series title now for some down years 4-5 years from now.

 

The problem is there is no amount of money the Brewers can spend which will guarantee a World Series title now. Player X, Pitcher Y and Pitcher Z this winter, spend like crazy and it doesn't promise them anything. Injuries happen, players have down years, etc, any or all of which can conspire against a team winning a World Series. And if they don't "win now", all you get out of the deal is a bad team in 4-5 years.

 

If Milwaukee can add a top-tier player at a reasonable cost which doesn't trash their ability to compete down the road I am all for it. But I am opposed to "winning now at all cost, future be danged". Because of this I am more in favor of smaller, incremental moves which improve the team now at minimal expense to the future.

[KeithStone53151]

I didn't mean to imply that the Brewers should sign Harper, I used it to emphasize a point that signing a player like him is a "needle mover", just as trading for Yelich was a needle mover. And yes, the Indians pitchers are PERFECT examples of the kinds of players they should be pursuing and are big time needle movers..yet we have heard NOTHING about any Brewer interest in any of them. As far as cost, there's a price for winning, and again, prospects are just that...prospects.

 

By the way, I think EVERY single fan base(in every sport) is guilty of this in some way or another, but why do fans care so much about the money that their teams spend or may or may not have?? That one has always perplexed me..it's not OUR $$, so what difference does it make?? If say Mark A Wanted to sign say Bryce Harper, who cares?? He writes the checks, not us as fans.

 

Fans understand teams are only going to spend a finite amount of money. In our case, we all have our opinions on how Stearns should allocate those funds. If Stearns does something stupid like sign Bryce Harper, it would cripple our ability to spend and likely result in a long period of losing. If Mark A decided he was going to boost payroll to $175 million consistently and lose money, heck I'd be thrilled and then think about our operations differently. Until that day, talking about signing players because "who cares if Mark A loses money" is just talking foolish and is not to be taken seriously.

[Fear The Chorizo]

 

Cubs and Dodgers aren’t afraid to spend money.. Machado and Harper could very easily go to those teams..

 

The Brewers aren’t fearful of spending money. They just don’t have as much to spend as those teams you mentioned. I hope you get that if the Brewers choose the wrong large contract, it could cripple any of the progress they have made so far.

 

So that means you don’t try?

 

The brewers offered Darvish $100 plus million last offseason and were outbid by the cubs...thank the heavens they were outbid by the cubs.

 

The brewers do try, they just aren't going to win bidding wars very often when deeper pocketed teams are involved.

[Jkromb]

You asked that this thread be unlocked so that it could be discussed. So what is the goal you have in mind for the Brewers? Do you think they are going to make some moves, or do you really believe they are going to sit idly by while the other NL playoff contenders improve?

 

I think we could make a trade for Kluber.. I think that would really help us.. but it won’t happen..

[pacopete4]

 

Cubs and Dodgers aren’t afraid to spend money.. Machado and Harper could very easily go to those teams..

 

The Brewers aren’t fearful of spending money. They just don’t have as much to spend as those teams you mentioned. I hope you get that if the Brewers choose the wrong large contract, it could cripple any of the progress they have made so far.

 

So that means you don’t try?

 

You can't really feel as though the Brewers don't "try", do you?