Packers to hire LaFleur (page 8), Hackett hired as OC (page 13)

[pacopete4]

Who's ready to see some of this quick screen game?

 

 

Ready? McCarthy always called WR screens. And...they rarely worked well.

 

Yeah but these ones are different.

[homer]

I'd take quick slant over quick screen.

[Zad Fnark]

In the Favre days, they used to eat defenses alive with the screen to Chmura over and over again. Wish they'd go to that again with their tight ends.

[FVBrewerFan]

Interesting to see the story about complacency setting in. The players leadership apparently saw this as a big problem, some of us have been saying it for a while now. Truth is, Murphy got complacent himself. Held on to Thompson way too long while building sledding hills and ice rinks. Yet he's still around.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Interesting to see the story about complacency setting in. The players leadership apparently saw this as a big problem, some of us have been saying it for a while now. Truth is, Murphy got complacent himself. Held on to Thompson way too long while building sledding hills and ice rinks. Yet he's still around.

 

 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The internet is awfully cruel to Mike McCarthy.

 

One comment I read criticized him for ‘only’ being 10-8 in the playoffs.

 

Context matters. If a coach is often running the last team to qualify for the playoffs then it would be likely that they would have a poorer record. If you could normalize the results against expected results you could get a better idea. The packers being 1/2 seed and losing multiple home games in the conference championship doesn't look good.

 

Personally without looking at the numbers, but knowing the Packers position and talent (HOF quarterback for his playoff stretch) plus the debacle in Seattle I would say that his record is below what it should be for playoffs. Especially as he was started out 3-0 and had arguably better teams 2 years after the SB win...

 

 

He didn't start out 3-0. He went 1-1 in 2007 and 0-1 in 2009. Both of those seasons were considered massive overachievements. Super Bowl win also got him four Ws, not three.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

MM’s career pivoted at Brandon Bostic. They win that game and people’s viewpoint changes on him.

 

 

His career pivoted when Nick Collins broke his neck. The defense fell apart after that. I nearly come to tears whenever I think of "what could have been" if Collins was never injured during the first game of 2011.

 

 

Agreed.

 

I don't really agree with either of these. I used to say the thing about the Seattle game, but they were back in the NFCCG 2 seasons later in the 'run the table' season. That is a major accomplishment and that we just sort of "meh" it speaks to how successful the team has been. Rodgers pulling out rabbits from his hat, sure, but he was the coach, so I think he gets some of the credit.

 

I saw a graphic the other day that had McCarthy on it and a caption that said "Only 5 playoff wins since Super Bowl." Sort of made me chuckle. Five playoff wins sounds like a fair amount. I also have always disliked talking about playoff records as every season without a title ends in a loss. It's kinda dumb. If you make the divisional and lose you're a ".500 coach".

 

This is all to say I think McCarthy is a fine coach. A bunch of these teams were 10-6. Is it his fault? Sure, that's an argument. But year after year this was an offensive powerhouse with a sieve on the other side of the field. I think most of the time it was an average team with Aaron Rodgers.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

MM’s career pivoted at Brandon Bostic. They win that game and people’s viewpoint changes on him.

 

 

His career pivoted when Nick Collins broke his neck. The defense fell apart after that. I nearly come to tears whenever I think of "what could have been" if Collins was never injured during the first game of 2011.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Another thing that I sorta feel has become part of Packers lore as time passes. Very good player and a major loss, absolutely. But he was definitely from the mold of Darren Sharper in that he was willing to miss to make a big play. He was good at it, so it worked. But there were a few reasons that defense fell apart. Woodson was getting less effective and banged up more often, Morgan Burnett never really flourished, and when they let Cullen Jenkins walk after the Super Bowl it had a devastating effect on the defense.

 

There were a lot of things going on and over time it's sort of become isolated to just Collins getting hurt. But I'm not saying it wasn't significant. I actually went to high school with a guy still in the league who I won't name. I ran into him after the 2011 on the street in MKE and we started talking about his career and he actually said to me "We watched a lot of tape on the Packers and they weren't the same secondary without him on the field."

[homer]

Confirmed - Pettine returning as DC.

[OldHeidelberg]

I haven't even been keeping up on coaching changes since the Packers hired LaFleur but I think it says a lot that MM got passed up for the fired Miami coach. Sort of like Sherman, overseeing the decline of a team with a HOF QB under center doesn't look too good on a resume no matter what you did before. His game management was always horrible in my opinion. I just don't think he is sharp enough to call the plays and keep the rest of the game in order. I sure won't miss those automatic timeouts before the half when the other team has the ball. There are times to do it but teams started to just fake like they want to run out the clock on 1st down, wait for MM to call the timeout, then run play action on 2nd and get an easy first and try for the late score. He fell for it every time.

 

I am thankful for the nice run he gave us but the 10 year rule should have been in effect. I think there are deeper problems with the front office culture to address but looking forward to fresh start with a new coach. I like the hire, but hopefully keeping Pettine around is his idea not something he had to agree to.

[PeaveyFury]

I think there are deeper problems with the front office culture to address

 

I am very eager for you to elaborate on what you mean by this?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Probably the fact that Murphy is the authority on fires and hires and that the QB is at least an influencer in some of the organizational decisions. I don't believe Rodgers is pulling strings but where there is smoke there's fire.

 

At its best, the structure they have going is weird, and its worst it's a significant problem.

[PeaveyFury]

A structure can be weird, but still be effective, no?

 

And 'front office culture issues' seems a bit more assertively negative. I don't think there has been any indication from anyone in the organization or NFL that there are issues.... it's just an issue brought up by fans, probably just because it IS 'weird.'

[SeaBass]

I think the one good aspect of Murphy giving himself more power over football operations is that if it fails there will be no doubt who's to blame and who should be fired. He really put himself out there, I don't think he has any illusions about what failure will mean for him and I respect that. That said, I don't think he should have done it. My feeling is, he knew his seat was getting warm and decided if he was going to go down it would be by making his own decisions. So far, other than the front office structure, I like the moves he's made.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Well, BK referred to it as weird or some similar term last year, and that it's not what he was expecting. I assumed it was just a temp thing until they fired McCarthy, but appears that isn't the case.

 

Murphy does seem to have an ego or at the very least supreme confidence in his skills. Maybe he should, we'll never know I guess. But it does seem to be walking a fine line toward "No Brian, you're going to trade for Antonio Brown because I want him.

 

One winning season and nobody will care about their structure though. All of this stuff comes out of the woodwork when you lose a few games. Suddenly Rodgers and McCarthy have to be hunting buddies or they can't work together, the corner of Rodgers mouth isn't at the right angle when he laughs.

[PeaveyFury]

My feeling is, he knew his seat was getting warm and decided if he was going to go down it would be by making his own decisions

 

Again, how much of this is reality, vs. complete speculation? The changes were made to the structure last year, following a year where they missed the playoffs for the first time in forever mainly due to their HOF QB being injured for much of the year, the recent opening of the Titletown district project, and a year removed from the NFC Championship game. How hot could his seat have possibly been?

 

If this continues for a couple of additional years and/or LaFleur ends up being a bad hire that he made? Sure, he's likely facing the door or a reduced role.

[PeaveyFury]

Murphy does seem to have an ego or at the very least supreme confidence in his skills. Maybe he should, we'll never know I guess. But it does seem to be walking a fine line toward "No Brian, you're going to trade for Antonio Brown because I want him.

 

That's a fair point... if it does indicate the start of a trend towards Jerry Jones-ing as the 'owner/president,' then I'm on board with this argument.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The structure was made last year, but Murphy listing his resume in front of the media happened this year after firing MM, and was at the very least, strange

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think nearly all pro athletes have sizable egos and a ton of pride. I think some of Murphy's bubbled to the surface when he knew people were questioning why he should be involved in football decisions. He thinks he knows a lot about football and that his input is valued. But Bob Harlan would never got on a mic and explain why his opinion matters. That kind of insecurity is a player-turned-executive as opposed to a career exec that wouldn't even justify the question with a response.

[SeaBass]

My feeling is, he knew his seat was getting warm and decided if he was going to go down it would be by making his own decisions

 

Again, how much of this is reality, vs. complete speculation? The changes were made to the structure last year, following a year where they missed the playoffs for the first time in forever mainly due to their HOF QB being injured for much of the year, the recent opening of the Titletown district project, and a year removed from the NFC Championship game. How hot could his seat have possibly been?

 

If this continues for a couple of additional years and/or LaFleur ends up being a bad hire that he made? Sure, he's likely facing the door or a reduced role.

I think there's something to it but of course I can't know how much of it is reality. I think it's very telling that the media are critical of his role in football decisions outright, including the generally milquetoast Wisconsin media. I see endless comments on various other sites and social media platforms with casual fans wanting Murphy's head on a plate right this very second. Lots of them wanted him gone right along with TT and McCarthy. I don't think his job is all that safe, public opinion becomes a factor if enough voices are crying out for the same thing.

 

If this continues for a couple of additional years and/or LaFleur ends up being a bad hire that he made? Sure, he's likely facing the door or a reduced role.

This aligns with my thinking as well.

[OldHeidelberg]

I think there are deeper problems with the front office culture to address

 

I am very eager for you to elaborate on what you mean by this?

 

I think there is too much emphasis on profits and not enough focus on winning. I brought this up a few months ago, I think you disagreed, so won't go into the stadium expansion and Titetown District again but there was an article on si.com a few weeks ago that I didn't think reflected too well on the organization. I had thought dumping Randall and Ha Ha were on MM but apparently the team does not like "loud" players and the debacle with Marteles Bennet was brought up as well. The front office was described as only caring about the brand and the VP's and doesn't care about the players. Certainly the desire to draft "Packer People" has been brought up a lot, that needs to change IMO, can't take quality players off the board because they don't fit some corporate culture. Someone in the other thread brought up that TT would have never drafted Alexander so maybe it has changed some now.

 

 

I found the article for anyone who hasn't seen it, long but interesting read:

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/29/green-bay-packers-problems-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-ted-thompson

[FVBrewerFan]

Being pretty familiar with the Packers BOD and Executive Committee, I would bet this is due to the ages of the GM/HC. As in "Don't worry, I will still have final authority over these young whipper snappers." Don't doubt it, average age on the BOD is 174.

 

But is it is weird. And it's weird Murphy went on and on during LaFleur's press conf. Everyone wants to hear the new coach dude, not you.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think there are deeper problems with the front office culture to address

 

I am very eager for you to elaborate on what you mean by this?

 

I think there is too much emphasis on profits and not enough focus on winning. I brought this up a few months ago, I think you disagreed, so won't go into the stadium expansion and Titetown District again but there was an article on si.com a few weeks ago that I didn't think reflected too well on the organization. I had thought dumping Randall and Ha Ha were on MM but apparently the team does not like "loud" players and the debacle with Marteles Bennet was brought up as well. The front office was described as only caring about the brand and the VP's and doesn't care about the players. Certainly the desire to draft "Packer People" has been brought up a lot, that needs to change IMO, can't take quality players off the board because they don't fit some corporate culture. Someone in the other thread brought up that TT would have never drafted Alexander so maybe it has changed some now.

 

I found the article for anyone who hasn't seen it, long but interesting read:

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/29/green-bay-packers-problems-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-ted-thompson

 

Sorry, I'm not taking any of this seriously. HHCD and Randall weren't good players. HHCD thought he was the best safety in the NFL and became discontent over no contract extension.

 

The Packers people thing is a bunch of baloney. They have signed several terrible human beings because they were cheap and filled voids. If HHCD were picking off 10 passes a year he'd have been extended two seasons ago.

 

I'm not even following the logic here...they've shown more than a willingness to have loud guys on the team. The argument doesn't make any sense.

 

Both Bennett brothers are scum bags, so they can pound sound and I'm ok with it. Not a chance in hell he'd be signed in the first place if they were that concerned with a brand.

[OldHeidelberg]

HaHa and Randall are good players in my opinion and dumping them left us very thin and that lack of depth contributed to the defensive collapse this year. I don't know how bad a cancer they were, like I say I blamed MM for being thin skinned but that article seems to indicate it was more the org. Maybe we would have been even worse with them on the team this year but I find that hard to believe. I thought I saw Randall even stood up for MM after his firing.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

HaHa was part of the defense this year...Randall? Yeah, I can't get behind him making any kind of substantial difference. This sounds just like grasping at straws. I don't see either of those two really making a lick of difference. There was not a chance HaHa was coming back anyway. Getting a 4th for a player with one foot out the door was one of the biggest wins of this season IMO.

 

HaHa was as good as gone. I guess my only criticism of Randall would be that Kizer is terrible, but I don't think he was part of the long term solution anyway. I'm just not really torn up losing either guy.

 

The team's problem this year was the offense anyway. The defense wasn't great but it was decimated by injuries and I think anyone can agree it's trending up. The offense was inexcusable for a team led by Rodgers.