Packers to hire LaFleur (page 8), Hackett hired as OC (page 13)

[OnTheBlack]

And now the Browns have hired away James Campen, who had one year left on his deal so they could have blocked him if they so chose. Pretty bummed out by that. He’s developed several starters out of Day 3 picks.

 

 

And a few into more than just starters, but All Pro's. Bahktari continues to amaze me. I thought he was a nice surprising stopgap LT, not a franchise LT. Glad I was wrong. Sitton, Lang, both 4th rounders from small schools, Linsley a 5th.

 

And while the OL hasn't look good relative to the past, given the restrictions on practice time has impacted the offensive line more than pretty much any other position. He was a rock, a guy who played here and coached here for 15 years. That's a major loss.

[CheezWizHed]

And now the Browns have hired away James Campen, who had one year left on his deal so they could have blocked him if they so chose. Pretty bummed out by that. He’s developed several starters out of Day 3 picks.

 

 

And a few into more than just starters, but All Pro's. Bahktari continues to amaze me. I thought he was a nice surprising stopgap LT, not a franchise LT. Glad I was wrong. Sitton, Lang, both 4th rounders from small schools, Linsley a 5th.

 

And while the OL hasn't look good relative to the past, given the restrictions on practice time has impacted the offensive line more than pretty much any other position. He was a rock, a guy who played here and coached here for 15 years. That's a major loss.

 

And ironically, that was exactly what Campen was as a player too. Sad to see him go since he was a Packer guy, but not overly surprised

[patrickgpe]

Yeah it’s not good so far, minus the right decision to retain Pettine, and fire Zook, but you have to wait for him to announce his full staff and then you can judge.

[LouisEly]

Of course even there we traded up for a Lane Johnson-esque athletic ability and one of the best OL coaches in the NFL and he's been a bust.

Well, PFF has graded him out as otherwise, but recently the problem has been that he's been hurt (and at the same time as Bulaga).

 

If history has shown us anything with OL, it's that they take several years to develop. Spriggs was drafted before Bakhtiari made his first pro bowl. And they drafted him because people weren't sold on Bak after 2015, a year in which he was tied for 4th most penalties by an OL (even though he only played in 14 games).

 

Allen Barbre was run out of town after 2009; he went on to play 8 more seasons and start 33 games. Breno Giacomini played one game for the Packers as a 5th round pick in 2008; after leaving, he played seven more years in the league (and was in a training camp this year) and started 86 games. Jamon Meredith didn't make it out of his first training camp; he played seven years in the league, appearing in 67 games and starting 30. Marshall Newhouse was run out of town after 2013; he's still in the league and has started 72 games in his career.

 

The Packers made two bad decisions in 2011 - they let Giacomini walk, and drafted Derrick Sherrod instead. The next 11 picks included Aaron Williams, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Jabaal Sheard, Akeem Ayers, Bruce Carter, Jarvis Jenkins, Brooks Reed, and Kyle Rudolph.

[OnTheBlack]

Of course even there we traded up for a Lane Johnson-esque athletic ability and one of the best OL coaches in the NFL and he's been a bust.

Well, PFF has graded him out as otherwise, but recently the problem has been that he's been hurt (and at the same time as Bulaga).

 

If history has shown us anything with OL, it's that they take several years to develop. Spriggs was drafted before Bakhtiari made his first pro bowl. And they drafted him because people weren't sold on Bak after 2015, a year in which he was tied for 4th most penalties by an OL (even though he only played in 14 games).

 

Allen Barbre was run out of town after 2009; he went on to play 8 more seasons and start 33 games. Breno Giacomini played one game for the Packers as a 5th round pick in 2008; after leaving, he played seven more years in the league (and was in a training camp this year) and started 86 games. Jamon Meredith didn't make it out of his first training camp; he played seven years in the league, appearing in 67 games and starting 30. Marshall Newhouse was run out of town after 2013; he's still in the league and has started 72 games in his career.

 

The Packers made two bad decisions in 2011 - they let Giacomini walk, and drafted Derrick Sherrod instead. The next 11 picks included Aaron Williams, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Jabaal Sheard, Akeem Ayers, Bruce Carter, Jarvis Jenkins, Brooks Reed, and Kyle Rudolph.

 

 

 

I think if you're going to say that Spriggs isn't a bust despite his injuries, then you would need to give Sherrod a huge pass as a very ugly broken leg broken which led to emergency surgery and then complications from that surgery really cost him his athletic ability.

 

As for them drafting Spriggs because they weren't sold on Bahktari and his penalty total, his 10(accepted) in 14 starts looks a lot better than Spriggs 7 in 2 starts this year. Regardless, Bahktari was a full time starter right out of the gate, Spriggs was a guy they traded up for in the 2nd round and has been absolutely abused at guard and beaten badly at tackle by any power rushers he's come up against.

 

Sure, he could still turn it around and there are guys who've left the Packers and played a lot elsewhere. In many of those cases, I think that speaks to the state of OL play in the rest of the league than those players talents. Marshall Newhouse has been a journeyman, Mereideth even moreso...in fact the Packers brought him back in '14 and cut him again. So it's not like they lost anything there. None of those players are really consequential players.

 

I've been on the Spriggs bandwagon the first 3 years, but he's looked bad, especially relative to expectations to this point in his career. And all the journeymen the Packers have moved on from in your estimation prematurely don't really seem relevant to this. He hasn't been run out--which is a term I don't really agree with in the first place, the team moved on from them because they couldn't make our roster--but regardless, they have given him 3 years and will give him at the very least another training camp.

 

So we'll see if he can turn it around. He needs to get stronger as he can't anchor a canoe right now...which makes it especially dangerous to start him at RT since he's not going to start at LT unless Bahktari goes down and the best pash rushers have been rushing from their left more and more often. The idea of him matching up against Mack, Everson Griffen or whomever right now is a scary proposition if you're a Packers fan.

 

Hopefully he'll show up at ST'ing and be ready to go, but do you really want to bank on that again this year? It hasn't panned out up to this point. I'm HOPING Kevin King plays a full season and we can see he and Alexander together. But shouldn't the Packers start to move forward as though that's not the case? He's a FA after this next year assuming he even makes it through the year with the team. Does anyone really feel good about not only moving forward with him, but then if he does stay healthy for a year and have a good stretch then paying him like you have Nick Perry for example?

 

I'll be thrilled to be wrong on him. Like I said, he's an extremely talented athlete and it's rare to find a man who is 6'6 310 who can move like he can, so it'd be great if he could become a really good pass protector. But after another year of him failing to do so, I'd like to see the Packers try to add one early on in the draft. And it's seldom a problem having too many talented linemen. They can easily shuffle tackles to guard...so it'd be a nice problem to have.

[homer]

Packers hire Nathanial Hackett for OC per NFL twitter feed.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Packers hire Nathanial Hackett for OC per NFL twitter feed.

 

Well respected vet offensive coach. Solid hire to pair with LaFleur. He was dealt a rough hand trying to get production out of Bortles this year. He was a miracle worker last year.

[LouisEly]

Regardless, Bahktari was a full time starter right out of the gate

That was only due to Bulaga being injured and missing the entire 2013 season. The plan was to move Bulaga to LT. After Bulaga came back from injury, he didn't have the mobility he used to and instead of switching two players' positions they kept Bak at LT and Bulaga at RT. Doesn't change the fact that they drafted Spriggs before Bak was named to a Pro Bowl. They didn't draft Spriggs to play RT.

 

I do give Sherrod a big pass for the injury, but my point was that if they had kept Giacomini they didn't need to spend a 1st round pick on an OT and could have spent it on a different position. I recall Akeem Ayers being talked about a lot with that pick, as well as Brooks Reed. If they knew what they had in Giacomini, perhaps they go a different way with that pick.

[patrickgpe]

Packers hire Nathanial Hackett for OC per NFL twitter feed.

I don’t like it. That’s being said an oc job where you won’t call the plays can’t be the most attractive job avaialavle. On record once Monken went to TB, I would have at least looked at John Defillipo.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Packers hire Nathanial Hackett for OC per NFL twitter feed.

I don’t like it. That’s being said an oc job where you won’t call the plays can’t be the most attractive job avaialavle. On record once Monken went to TB, I would have at least looked at John Defillipo.

 

Not sure we needed another offensive coach allergic to using the run game. That's pretty much McCarthy in a nutshell.

[CheezWizHed]

I was actually hoping for Defillipo. He was shafted in MN. Plus, you combine two major offensive coaching chains...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I was actually hoping for Defillipo. He was shafted in MN. Plus, you combine two major offensive coaching chains...

 

He had a terrific halfback at his disposal in Cook, and was totally pass-happy. With the skill guys that Viking offense has, they should have dominated. Vikings offense was a huge disappointment. Was he a scapegoat? Maybe. No one can deny that offense got better after he was canned, though.

[OnTheBlack]

Regardless, Bahktari was a full time starter right out of the gate

That was only due to Bulaga being injured and missing the entire 2013 season. The plan was to move Bulaga to LT. After Bulaga came back from injury, he didn't have the mobility he used to and instead of switching two players' positions they kept Bak at LT and Bulaga at RT. Doesn't change the fact that they drafted Spriggs before Bak was named to a Pro Bowl. They didn't draft Spriggs to play RT.

 

I do give Sherrod a big pass for the injury, but my point was that if they had kept Giacomini they didn't need to spend a 1st round pick on an OT and could have spent it on a different position. I recall Akeem Ayers being talked about a lot with that pick, as well as Brooks Reed. If they knew what they had in Giacomini, perhaps they go a different way with that pick.

 

 

Why he became the starter really isn't the point. The point is that he did and he was successful. Spriggs has had every opportunity that Bahktari had. And I really don't understand the pro-bowl references. Bahktari didn't make the Pro Bowl this year despite being first team All Pro.

 

As for Giacomini, I guess I'm just missing your point. He's another guy who was a journeyman who was signed and cut by teams several times. The Packers kept him around for 3 years before moving on and even then when he went to Seattle, the Seahawks only picked him up because they had a terrible OL.....I don't see how keeping a guy like him, a fringe starter would have deterred the Packers from using a 1st rounder on a tackle.

 

I really don't get how all of this speaks to Jason Spriggs NOT being a bust thus far. As you said, Bulaga was supposed to be the LT. They didn't use the 22nd pick(IIRC) on a RT. But he's played RT and thrived. Spriggs has not. And again, in today's NFL, there isn't the difference between RT and LT like there has been traditionally where you're looking for the stronger, more of a mauler type at RT and the athleticism at LT. The best pass rushers are lining up over the RT now.

 

I've been on the Spriggs bandwagon now for a couple years. He has not shown anything that suggests you want to count on him as even backup swing tackle, never mind as the type of player you can count on to take over at one of the tackle spots. With Aaron Rodgers at 35, you probably want to invest in another tackle for the future moving forward to protect what will likely become a more fragile QB as he enters his late 30's.

[nodakfan17]

Does anyone else get the feeling the Packers are becoming the old Browns and the Browns are becoming the new Packers?

 

I’m cautiously optimistic, but hiring a HC and OC from the 27th and 28th ranked offenses hasn’t exactly boosted my confidence going into the offseason.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Does anyone else get the feeling the Packers are becoming the old Browns and the Browns are becoming the new Packers?

 

I’m cautiously optimistic, but hiring a HC and OC from the 27th and 28th ranked offenses hasn’t exactly boosted my confidence going into the offseason.

 

Look up where the 49ers offense ranked in the one year McCarthy was the OC before coming to the Packers ...

[BillScottCanRake]

Does anyone else get the feeling the Packers are becoming the old Browns and the Browns are becoming the new Packers?

 

I’m cautiously optimistic, but hiring a HC and OC from the 27th and 28th ranked offenses hasn’t exactly boosted my confidence going into the offseason.

 

Look up where the 49ers offense ranked in the one year McCarthy was the OC before coming to the Packers ...

 

And the Packers won't be running their offense with the same personnel those teams used last year. It won't take much improvement in Rodgers play for this to be a be a top 10 offense.

 

And even tho LaFleur was hired in large part to fix the offense, he was still hired to run the team as a whole, something you can't measure looking at last years offensive rankings.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I was actually hoping for Defillipo. He was shafted in MN. Plus, you combine two major offensive coaching chains...

 

 

I wouldn't discount him as coming in as a QB coach. Getting fired as an first-year OC probably won't land him another OC gig this year.

 

Also of note that the Vikings brought in Gary Kubiak (and his son) as a coaching assistant (they had already kept on their OC who succeeded DeFillipo).

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't know how the Packers will be, but I couldn't care less about where an OC ranked with some other team. There are so many variables that go into that, it's just a total waste of time getting worked up over. You can't tell anything from that.

[nodakfan17]

I was actually hoping for Defillipo. He was shafted in MN. Plus, you combine two major offensive coaching chains...

 

 

I wouldn't discount him as coming in as a QB coach. Getting fired as an first-year OC probably won't land him another OC gig this year..

 

Just pointing out that a mid-season firing didn’t stop Hackett from landing another OC job.

[superfly]

Packers hire Nathanial Hackett for OC per NFL twitter feed.

I don’t like it. That’s being said an oc job where you won’t call the plays can’t be the most attractive job avaialavle. On record once Monken went to TB, I would have at least looked at John Defillipo.

 

Defillipo is a fraud imo....Reich was the brains behind that operation. Pretty sure he got canned because Zimmer chewed his rear out to balance the offense and then proceeded to ignore him.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I was actually hoping for Defillipo. He was shafted in MN. Plus, you combine two major offensive coaching chains...

 

 

I wouldn't discount him as coming in as a QB coach. Getting fired as an first-year OC probably won't land him another OC gig this year..

 

Just pointing out that a mid-season firing didn’t stop Hackett from landing another OC job.

 

 

Jaguars offense was significantly worse after they fired Hackett, whereas the Vikings improved after DeFillipo was fired.

[homer]

I don't like guys that overly trim their eyebrows (I call it "The Molina") John Defillipo is an egregious offender.

[Point Beer Is Best]

And now the Jags have just hired DeFillipo as their new OC.

[Jenkins5]

Hackett’s numbers this season before he got fired when they had Fournette were Top 5 in scoring & yards... terrible when he was gone & had to rely on Bortles to run offense. That was case in 2017 as well. Lucky for him is while he doesn’t have the absolute horse of Leonard, he can be creative with ARod & find ways for Williams & Jones to be very effective. No coach is going to be able to do great when offense is all on a Bortles type QB

 

Sounds like he may be OC & QBs coach as well

[HiAndTight]

 

 

Jaguars offense was significantly worse after they fired Hackett, whereas the Vikings improved after DeFillipo was fired.

 

 

Again, no horse in this fight, but the Vikes played 3 games vs pretty sub-par teams after he was fired. So aside from the desperation they were playing with fighting for a playoff spot and all the other intangibles that go into it and you're talking about a really small sample size. Heck, same with Hackett. You're talking about less than a third of the season.

 

 

 

Now as a fan I'll just look at the Jags offense getting worse and then blindly assume that means Hackett was better and at the same time ignore LaFleur's poor offense with the Titans because I want to believe that the Packers are going to improve. But logically, I don't care what guys did with their past team. They must have impressed in one way or another in the interview process or have similar philosophies to LeFleur.

 

And hopefully the irrational side of being a Packers fan just wins out.