Future Payrolls

[ThisIsMyCrew]

Looking back at the 2016 and 2017 payrolls of $63 million. Does that allow for larger than “normal” payrolls for us? Maybe this would allow or payroll to expand a bit and allow some wiggle room? I’m not sure how all that carries over from year to year. I’ve just seen a lot of payroll talk in other forms and thought I’d ask!

[JosephC]

Here is what one guy from MLBTradeRumors thinks:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/11/brewers-payroll-2019.html

 

He has 110 million. My guess would be just slightly higher than that (112 million).

 

If Attanasio does something like jack it up to 125+ million, my gut feeling is that it will have nothing to do with the payrolls he's run with in the past. It would be foolish to over-extend now with past saved money only have to cut it back later after that saved money has run out. If the payroll takes a big move up, I would suspect it will have to do more with new or better revenue steams than what they've had to work with in the past (start with the new FOX broadcast deal).

[502 to Right]

The. Time. Is. Now.

 

If M.A. can't dump some serious cash into this operation right now he should sell the franchise. One game away from the World Series.

[Mr Southpaw]

The. Time. Is. Now.

 

If M.A. can't dump some serious cash into this operation right now he should sell the franchise. One game away from the World Series.

 

+1. This is the one business he runs for fun. Winning in investment banking is profitable. Winning in baseball is fun.

[KCBrewerfan34]

How much has MA pocketed the last 2-3 years? 75 million? Plus the Brewers received what 50 million from that digital agreement. Royals carried 130 mill + during their run. I agree the time is now

[BrewersSuperCollector]

How much has MA pocketed the last 2-3 years? 75 million? Plus the Brewers received what 50 million from that digital agreement. Royals carried 130 mill + during their run. I agree the time is now

 

I think the 50 million from the digital agreement went to Maryvale being rebuilt.

[Jose Cardenal1]

MA has not "pocketed" anything. People have to stop thinking this is still the 1970's. That is not how baseball teams are run and pro-sports leagues specifically approve new owners who can run these organizations without relying on "pocketing" anything from the team finances.

 

Lower payrolls for a few years paid for the new spring training complex among other things.

[Patrick425]

How much has MA pocketed the last 2-3 years? 75 million?

 

Is this just some random guess, or do actually have some inside information that the rest of the general public does not have?

[KeithStone53151]

MA has not "pocketed" anything. People have to stop thinking this is still the 1970's. That is not how baseball teams are run and pro-sports leagues specifically approve new owners who can run these organizations without relying on "pocketing" anything from the team finances.

 

Lower payrolls for a few years paid for the new spring training complex among other things.

 

Right. And a reminder that the Brewers were one of the biggest spenders last offseason...when nobody else was spending. I believe a new TV deal is coming after the 2019 season as well. I personally think $110M for an opening payroll makes sense, and could also see it inch a bit higher. I'll add that if the Brewers are doing well, I don't think payroll would be a huge factor in decision making at the deadline. Player payroll is obviously the biggest expense a team has, but all other operational costs are increasing year to year regardless of if the team is good or not. And I have to imagine MA is opening his checkbook a bit to try and keep Stearns from bolting to a big market when his contract is up. It's definitely not as simple as "that one time they got a $50M payout" or "ticket prices went up 8% this year, so payroll should go up 8%".

[RollieTime]

I see our opening day payroll being between $100-$105 million and increasing to around $115 million by season’s end this season after trades and other roster moves. In a couple years from now, I think our payroll will be around $130 million as we add more high end talent and make a strong push to win a World Series.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Right. And a reminder that the Brewers were one of the biggest spenders last offseason...when nobody else was spending. I believe a new TV deal is coming after the 2019 season as well. I personally think $110M for an opening payroll makes sense, and could also see it inch a bit higher. I'll add that if the Brewers are doing well, I don't think payroll would be a huge factor in decision making at the deadline. Player payroll is obviously the biggest expense a team has, but all other operational costs are increasing year to year regardless of if the team is good or not. And I have to imagine MA is opening his checkbook a bit to try and keep Stearns from bolting to a big market when his contract is up. It's definitely not as simple as "that one time they got a $50M payout" or "ticket prices went up 8% this year, so payroll should go up 8%".

 

Right, and a note for everyone to consider, anything over $105 million will be an all-time franchise high. Mark A has repeatedly signed off on going over budget when the team was in position to contend. Money will be spent. But you also have to remember the Brewers have a lot of options under team control before they even explore free agency. It might make more sense to find out where they're weakest come July and take on salary then.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Random guess. Great attendance and back to back years of payroll at under $65 million. Brewers made some cash!!!

[owbc]

The. Time. Is. Now.

 

If M.A. can't dump some serious cash into this operation right now he should sell the franchise. One game away from the World Series.

 

The strategy is to build a sustained winner. I agree the cash should be spent eventually, but the correct time to do it is dictated by opportunity. Last winter the opportunities came along, it remains to be seen if similar ones will arise this year.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

The. Time. Is. Now.

 

If M.A. can't dump some serious cash into this operation right now he should sell the franchise. One game away from the World Series.

 

The strategy is to build a sustained winner. I agree the cash should be spent eventually, but the correct time to do it is dictated by opportunity. Last winter the opportunities came along, it remains to be seen if similar ones will arise this year.

 

+1

 

This.

[long ball]

I don't think "saving" on payrolls in previous seasons really has any meaningful impact on what teams are willing to spend going forward.

 

The Brewers also renovated Maryvale and bought the Mudcats so there were other capital investments made.

 

I agree that $105-110mm for the opening day payroll feels about right.

[monty57]

I don't think "saving" on payrolls in previous seasons really has any meaningful impact on what teams are willing to spend going forward.

 

The Brewers also renovated Maryvale and bought the Mudcats so there were other capital investments made.

 

I agree that $105-110mm for the opening day payroll feels about right.

 

I think you're correct. The Brewers are an LLC, so any profits would carry forward to the owners. Therefore, it makes sense for them to find a way to invest any excess revenues back into the team so they are always operating around break-even. Buying a minor league franchise, rebuilding Maryvale, and renovating the concession area are all ways for the owners to build equity while not paying a lot of taxes.

 

I would not expect a higher payroll until the team expects a sustainable increase in annual revenues. I wouldn't expect a jump in payroll beyond around $100-110m until the new TV deal kicks in. I believe that's after next season, so I would expect this to be a relatively quiet offseason.

[And That]

It's also important to remember that Opening Day payroll is not necessarily the number the Brewers are looking at from a budget standpoint. They know there will be further payroll costs throughout the season, in the millions, even if they add no further outside players during the season. So if they start with a $110 million payroll, the number they are looking at internally might actually be closer to $115 million before the season even starts due to the fact they know players will need DL time, 40-man players get paid differently in MLB vs. in the minors, etc.

[Patrick425]

I don't think "saving" on payrolls in previous seasons really has any meaningful impact on what teams are willing to spend going forward.

 

The Brewers also renovated Maryvale and bought the Mudcats so there were other capital investments made.

 

I agree that $105-110mm for the opening day payroll feels about right.

 

I think you're correct. The Brewers are an LLC, so any profits would carry forward to the owners. Therefore, it makes sense for them to find a way to invest any excess revenues back into the team so they are always operating around break-even. Buying a minor league franchise, rebuilding Maryvale, and renovating the concession area are all ways for the owners to build equity while not paying a lot of taxes.

 

I would not expect a higher payroll until the team expects a sustainable increase in annual revenues. I wouldn't expect a jump in payroll beyond around $100-110m until the new TV deal kicks in. I believe that's after next season, so I would expect this to be a relatively quiet offseason.

 

On the other hand, wouldn't another deep playoff run and possible WS appearance help them get a bigger new TV deal? Perhaps you gotta spend a little more to make a little more?

[DHonks]

wow, we have no clue whatsoever to the Brewers spending on Minor League players, facilities, support systems, etc. We have no clue what the Brewers generate for revenues. It would be ridiculous for anyone to make a claim that MA has pocketed $75M. I would assume all of the revenues stay with the franchise and no money is going to him.

[Mr Southpaw]

wow, we have no clue whatsoever to the Brewers spending on Minor League players, facilities, support systems, etc. We have no clue what the Brewers generate for revenues. It would be ridiculous for anyone to make a claim that MA has pocketed $75M. I would assume all of the revenues stay with the franchise and no money is going to him.

 

Mark and friends bought the Brewers in 2005 for $223M. If he sold it today there would be a "B" in the amount. He also has an investment banking firm which allowed him to buy the Brewers.

 

He has a personal wealth of $700M. He is a great owner and will spend when needed, because it is more than just a business, it is his adult toy. That being said it is still a business and he still wants to make money.

[Jose Cardenal1]

wow, we have no clue whatsoever to the Brewers spending on Minor League players, facilities, support systems, etc. We have no clue what the Brewers generate for revenues. It would be ridiculous for anyone to make a claim that MA has pocketed $75M. I would assume all of the revenues stay with the franchise and no money is going to him.

 

Mark and friends bought the Brewers in 2005 for $223M. If he sold it today there would be a "B" in the amount. He also has an investment banking firm which allowed him to buy the Brewers.

 

He has a personal wealth of $700M. He is a great owner and will spend when needed, because it is more than just a business, it is his adult toy. That being said it is still a business and he still wants to make money.

 

Yes he wants the team to be profitable because the alternative is that he (and his partners) would need to contribute capital yearly. However that does not mean the ownership group is looking for a revenue stream from the team. They are demonstrating that they will invest profits back into the organization whether that be players, facilities or owning a minor league affiliate. The owners know there will be a payday down the road when the team is sold but they are not looking to pull money out of the organization with distributions of profits to the owners.

[DHonks]

wow, we have no clue whatsoever to the Brewers spending on Minor League players, facilities, support systems, etc. We have no clue what the Brewers generate for revenues. It would be ridiculous for anyone to make a claim that MA has pocketed $75M. I would assume all of the revenues stay with the franchise and no money is going to him.

 

Mark and friends bought the Brewers in 2005 for $223M. If he sold it today there would be a "B" in the amount. He also has an investment banking firm which allowed him to buy the Brewers.

 

He has a personal wealth of $700M. He is a great owner and will spend when needed, because it is more than just a business, it is his adult toy. That being said it is still a business and he still wants to make money.

 

In the past, studies have shown that sports owners don’t make much money while they own the franchise. However, they make money when they sell.

[Eye Black]

How much has MA pocketed the last 2-3 years? 75 million? Plus the Brewers received what 50 million from that digital agreement. Royals carried 130 mill + during their run. I agree the time is now

 

I think the 50 million from the digital agreement went to Maryvale being rebuilt.

That is what Haudricort has stated on multiple occasions, but it doesn’t totally make sense to me. It’s not like they cut a $60 million check for the Maryvale renovations and operations costs. I assume it’s a capital expenditure they have budgeted properly in order to finance over time. Sure the financing of the capital project will likely come from the same pool of money that includes the BAM revenue, but I have a hard time believing they just took a lump sum of money from “X” and spent it all on “Y”.

[Eye Black]

If the Brewers spent $120 million on payroll next season they would still be in the bottom 1/3 of the league in salary. I agree that the front office is going to be careful to leave themselves with some payroll flexibility to utilize during the season as needed. I also tend to believe that the maximum payroll the Brewers would be willing to take on is closer to $125 million than it is to $110 million.

 

One thing the Brewers have going for them from a salary standpoint is they really haven’t had to invest a lot of money into their pitching. The Brewers don’t have a single pitcher that will make more than $7 million next season.

 

Here are the Brewers top ten pitcher salary commitments for next season...

 

Chacín - $6.75 million

Anderson - $6.5 million

Knebel - $4.9 million (arbitration projection)

Nelson - $3.7 million (arbitration projection)

Jeffress - $3.175 million

Guerra - $2.7 million (arbitration projection)

Albers - $2.5 million

Davies - $2.4 million (arbitration projection)

Barnes - ~$0.6 million (pre-arb salary)

Hader - ~$0.6 million (pre-arb salary)

 

I know their budget is in another stratosphere, but by contrast the Cubs have the following pitching salary commitments for the 2019 season...

 

Lester - $27.5 million

Darvish - $20 million

Hamels - $20 million

Chatwood - $12.5 million

Quintana - $10.5 million

Morrow - $9 million

Hendricks - $7.6 million (arbitration projection)

Cishek - $6.5 million

Strop - $6.25 million

Kinztler - $5 million

 

Again, I realize it’s comparing apples to oranges, but the Brewers current top 10 pitchers combined are going to cost the team less than $35 million next season while the Cubs have $125 million sunk into their top 10 pitcher salaries.

[Oxy]

I would be disappointed if there is a hard budget cap at the current time. I would have been just as disappointed if 2 years ago we had signed Edwin Encarnacion or Dexter Fowler or Brett Cecil just because we had room in the budget to do so.

 

 

We need to find good values that will improve the ballclub, and now is a good time to do that--particularly after letting Schoop go to Free Agency. There is a hole in the roster there.