Madison Bumgarner

[markedman5]

Article today in The Athletic with a very solid argument as to why Baumgardner isn't worth a big haul.

 

I would suggest reading it for anyone who thinks the Brewers should pursue him.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I am skeptical the Giants will get a big return (such as a Top 50 prospect) in return for Bumgarner.

 

This. The deal would have to be expanded for a major prospect to be heading to SF.

[Eye Black]

Article today in The Athletic with a very solid argument as to why Baumgardner isn't worth a big haul.

 

I would suggest reading it for anyone who thinks the Brewers should pursue him.

I thought The Athletic article, If the Giants really are taking trade calls on him, one key question: How good is Madison Bumgarner right now?, written by Eno Sarris was a spot-on depiction of what type of pitcher Bumgarner is right now.

 

The article includes a lot of good analysis, but at one point summarizes with: “His velocity is down. His movement is down. His command is down.”

 

Some other interesting observations from the article are below.

 

 

Baumgarner’s Home versus Road splits since the start of 2017:

 

[pre]Season IP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 ERA

Home 116.2 8.0 2.2 0.8 2.39

Away 124.0 7.7 2.5 1.5 4.14[/pre]

 

 

 

In addition to the above chart, Eno Sarris also shared a graph showing that Bumgarner’s average velocity peaked at 93-mph in 2015 and is now down to just over 91-mph. His max velocity in 2015 was hitting 97-mph and last season he maxed out at 93-mph.

 

The article concludes that the Giants may very well end up keeping Baumgarner since the offers likely won’t match their asking price.

 

Now more than ever I have trouble believing a GM will cough up a bonafide top 50 prospect in a deal for Baumgarner.

[Austin Tatious]

MadBum is a mystery, wrapped in a riddle

 

https://deadspin.com/an-attempt-at-untangling-the-legend-of-madison-bumgarne-1795053064

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Jon Heyman on Twitter...

 

#SFGiants source on MadBum: "Don't see him going anywhere."

 

Otherwise interpreted as we made him available but we're asking for way too much.

[pacopete4]

It was two seasons ago now (I think) that I told my buddy, who is a huge Giants fan, that the Giants are making a mistake not selling off everyone and beginning anew. They are a wreck. They won't be forever because they have resources but they are in a bad situation with their roster because their GM did not realize that the window was closing (is closed) on that group of ballplayers. Huge whiff out in SF not capitalizing on some really great players and re-stocking the farm when they had the opportunity to do so. Now they will either stand pat and stink or sell off, get peanuts for their return and stink.

[TURBO]

It was two seasons ago now (I think) that I told my buddy, who is a huge Giants fan, that the Giants are making a mistake not selling off everyone and beginning anew.

 

back-pat...

[wildcat2237]

It was two seasons ago now (I think) that I told my buddy, who is a huge Giants fan, that the Giants are making a mistake not selling off everyone and beginning anew. They are a wreck. They won't be forever because they have resources but they are in a bad situation with their roster because their GM did not realize that the window was closing (is closed) on that group of ballplayers. Huge whiff out in SF not capitalizing on some really great players and re-stocking the farm when they had the opportunity to do so. Now they will either stand pat and stink or sell off, get peanuts for their return and stink.

 

Excellent post.

 

The Giants did screw up royally. However, sadly, because they have money they will be able to buy their way out of it eventually. But I hope they stink for a few years in the meantime.

[pacopete4]

It was two seasons ago now (I think) that I told my buddy, who is a huge Giants fan, that the Giants are making a mistake not selling off everyone and beginning anew.

 

back-pat...

 

Thanks?

 

Wasn't my intended reason for the post. Was more so just a realization of how screwed that franchise really is right now because they didn't take the proper steps to using their resources that they have had. And now, more than likely, they will end up paying for it.

[wallus]

It's funny how such "poorly run" organizations like the Giants and Marlins have multiple championships. I wish the Brewers were so lucky.

[Fear The Chorizo]

It was two seasons ago now (I think) that I told my buddy, who is a huge Giants fan, that the Giants are making a mistake not selling off everyone and beginning anew. They are a wreck. They won't be forever because they have resources but they are in a bad situation with their roster because their GM did not realize that the window was closing (is closed) on that group of ballplayers. Huge whiff out in SF not capitalizing on some really great players and re-stocking the farm when they had the opportunity to do so. Now they will either stand pat and stink or sell off, get peanuts for their return and stink.

 

They are the Phillies of about 4-5 seasons ago

[3and2Fastball]

It's funny how such "poorly run" organizations like the Giants and Marlins have multiple championships. I wish the Brewers were so lucky.

 

Standing ovation on that one! I agree wholeheartedly

 

I like the idea of Bumgarner in a Brewers uniform for one year. I like the idea of multiple years of Woodruff, Peralta, & Burnes though, more...

 

If the Giants would take a package of Davies, Ray, & a lesser pitching prospect, I'd do that...

[HarveysWBs]

From the twitter feed of Jon Morosi:

 

Madison Bumgarner’s trade market now coming into focus. #Phillies have spoken with #SFGiants about him and have a greater need for a left-handed co-ace with Patrick Corbin signing with rival #Nats. #Brewers are another possible destination.

@MLB@MLBNetwork

 

Sounds like he has news of actual talks between Giants and Phillies, but is chumming the waters with the Brewers tack-on at the end. I would be a bit surprised about Bumgarner actually heading our way, but I’ve been wrong before about Stearns, that’s for sure.

[superfly]

From the twitter feed of Jon Morosi:

 

Madison Bumgarner’s trade market now coming into focus. #Phillies have spoken with #SFGiants about him and have a greater need for a left-handed co-ace with Patrick Corbin signing with rival #Nats. #Brewers are another possible destination.

@MLB@MLBNetwork

 

Sounds like he has news of actual talks between Giants and Phillies, but is chumming the waters with the Brewers tack-on at the end. I would be a bit surprised about Bumgarner actually heading our way, but I’ve been wrong before about Stearns, that’s for sure.

 

Sorry but as much as I'd like it to happen, i'm calling that one from Morosi.....

 

http://i68.tinypic.com/992y4y.jpg

[Point Beer Is Best]

Does Bumgarner have any kind of no-trade protection? He seems to have some kind of personal vendetta with Braun (throwing intentionally at his upper body this last season) and has kind of struck me as being the West Coast version of Chris Carpenter. He would be a perfect fit with St. Louis.

[Madhawk23]

Is it just me, or does Morosi just seem to throw our name into some of these reports without much actual knowledge that we've really been involved? It's almost like he's thinking "hey, the Brewers need SP help and are looking to compete in 2019," so let's throw them into this tweet about an available SP - even though I have no idea if they are seriously involved in discussions with this team.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Is it just me, or does Morosi just seem to throw our name into some of these reports without much actual knowledge that we've really been involved? It's almost like he's thinking "hey, the Brewers need SP help and are looking to compete in 2019," so let's throw them into this tweet about an available SP - even though I have no idea if they are seriously involved in discussions with this team.

 

I don't doubt that he's taking some factual leaps, but I wouldn't say they aren't at least educated leaps. The Brewers are a team that was one poorly pitched game from a World Series appearance, with a starting rotation basically held together by duct tape, binder twine and dreams. While I believe the Brewers are in a much better situation with their prospective rotation this year than they were at this time last year, they are still lacking a sure-fire ace, and the team will continue to be brought up as a candidate whenever the availability of one of those types of guys is discussed. Could Nelson come back and be that guy? Could Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta develop into that guy? Could Davies or Anderson rebound into that guy? Could Chacin build off his great 2018 and be that guy? Could they find a reclamation like Sonny Gray that could turn into that guy? All those are varying degrees of "maybe".

[bill hAll Star]

Sure, I'd love to have a great starting pitcher.

 

I'm not paying a large chunk of our farm system for a guy that is maybe marginally better than Chacin at this point in his career.

 

I'd rather "hold together by duct tape, binder twine, and dreams" a performance from Woodruff, Burnes, etc. again in the playoffs, not give them away for a guy that isn't even that good anymore.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I think we are letting Woodruff's postseason heroics cloud the HUGE gap in talent between Madison Bumgarner and him.

 

Also pretending that MadBum is some washed up old man, when in reality, he's only 4 years older than Woodruff.

[superfly]

Marginally better than Chacin.....what? Chacin just had a career year and it doesn't even match up to a single year of Bumgarner's 9 full seasons.

[jjfanec]

Marginally better than Chacin.....what? Chacin just had a career year and it doesn't even match up to a single year of Bumgarner's 9 full seasons.

 

The undervaluing of Bumgarner on this board surprises me. People bring up the park that he pitches in but remember Chacin pitched in a pitchers part too before coming to Milwaukee and it turned out pretty good for him

[bill hAll Star]

Marginally better than Chacin.....what? Chacin just had a career year and it doesn't even match up to a single year of Bumgarner's 9 full seasons.

 

Check out Bumgarner's last 2 years. He's not good away from home in arguably the best pitcher park in baseball.

 

He strikes hitters out at a barely higher clip than Chacin, his xFIP/FIP are barely better than Chacin.

 

He has the repertoire to go later into the game than Chacin so I would definitely take him over Chacin but he's not that good anymore. If the Giants give him away for a few middling prospects, I'll take it. If not, pass.

[bill hAll Star]

I think we are letting Woodruff's postseason heroics cloud the HUGE gap in talent between Madison Bumgarner and him.

 

Also pretending that MadBum is some washed up old man, when in reality, he's only 4 years older than Woodruff.

 

Woodruff was throwing 98 in the playoffs.

 

Bumgarner was throwing 91 last season (in his prime he was at 93-94).

 

Velocity isn't everything but I'm not paying market price for a huge risk at this point.

 

Maybe Bumgarner just wasn't back up to speed after his random injuries, but the Giants are asking for a big name package at this point and I'm not willing to pay it.

 

Maybe if the price goes down as the article suggests I'd consider it:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/madison-bumgarner-wont-fetch-the-giants-that-much/

[sveumrules]

I think Bumgarner makes sense as a trade target.

 

He is a lefty starter (we have none) & due to injury/declining results doesn't have a ton of surplus value at one year, twelve million.

 

Of course the Giants probably value him more highly than the market does because of his history with the team & want a larger return than is warranted.

 

Highest I'd probably go is Erceg & a low level flier.

[jjfanec]

I think we are letting Woodruff's postseason heroics cloud the HUGE gap in talent between Madison Bumgarner and him.

 

Also pretending that MadBum is some washed up old man, when in reality, he's only 4 years older than Woodruff.

 

Woodruff was throwing 98 in the playoffs.

 

Bumgarner was throwing 91 last season (in his prime he was at 93-94).

 

Velocity isn't everything but I'm not paying market price for a huge risk at this point.

 

Maybe Bumgarner just wasn't back up to speed after his random injuries, but the Giants are asking for a big name package at this point and I'm not willing to pay it.

 

Maybe if the price goes down as the article suggests I'd consider it:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/madison-bumgarner-wont-fetch-the-giants-that-much/

 

Honest question. Didnt Woodruff's velocity spike up when he went to the bullpen? How high would it be as a starter? Would he be able to maintain upper 90s or would he slip back to 93-94 range