Madison Bumgarner

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Jon Morosi

Verified account

@jonmorosi

1m1 minute ago

Source: In initial Madison Bumgarner trade talks with #Brewers, #SFGiants indicated that a young starting pitcher — Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff or Freddy Peralta — would need to be part of offer for deal to occur. @MLB @MLBNetwork

 

If they want one of those young pitchers and Ray, I would think there would have to be more coming back than just Bumgarner. Giants have other pieces that I would think would be of interest.

[tmwiese55]

no way I give up 5-6 years of those guys for one of him. Just no way. I mean, there is a very good chance Burnes outperforms him this year. I wouldn't predict it, but it could easily happen. If they're not understanding that he's regressed the last two years and that he's only under control for a year (and of course MKE can't resign) then you just move on. Ray, Davies/Anderson, and a lower level flyer type similar to what we got for Broxton is probably my max.

[Lathund]

I don't think Bum ends up getting traded in the offseason simply because teams looking to acquire him will value him at his expected level of production (Which would be heavily influenced by his recent stats) whereas the Giants will have to value him differently due to who he is and his history in SF. Zaidi trading Bum for anywhere near his "true" value as his first major move would not go down well, and while I'm sure that won't be his sole concern, it surely plays into it as well. So I would think that finding a middle ground won't be easy.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Jon Morosi

Verified account

@jonmorosi

1m1 minute ago

Source: In initial Madison Bumgarner trade talks with #Brewers, #SFGiants indicated that a young starting pitcher — Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff or Freddy Peralta — would need to be part of offer for deal to occur. @MLB @MLBNetwork

 

That's a hard pass.

 

It's tough to emphatically hang up a cell phone, but hopefully Stearns just screamed "HaHaHa....Click!!!" into the phone before pressing the red telephone icon to end the call. The Giants think they have a bunch of leverage in trading Madbum, but I kind of doubt it. There aren't many other teams in the market for a veteran starter who have MLB-ready young starting pitching they are dying to trade away.

[wildcat2237]

Jon Morosi

Verified account

@jonmorosi

1m1 minute ago

Source: In initial Madison Bumgarner trade talks with #Brewers, #SFGiants indicated that a young starting pitcher — Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff or Freddy Peralta — would need to be part of offer for deal to occur. @MLB @MLBNetwork

 

That's a hard pass.

 

You always negotiate by starting high.

 

If you want Ray+..... then you start with Burnes+....

 

IMHO the Giants hand is overplayed here. They waited way too long to rebuild. IMHO they are in a place where they absolutely must trade Madbum before the season starts. He has way more value if a team can make him a QO.

[iKezims]

Jon Morosi

Verified account

@jonmorosi

1m1 minute ago

Source: In initial Madison Bumgarner trade talks with #Brewers, #SFGiants indicated that a young starting pitcher — Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff or Freddy Peralta — would need to be part of offer for deal to occur. @MLB @MLBNetwork

 

If they want one of those young pitchers and Ray, I would think there would have to be more coming back than just Bumgarner. Giants have other pieces that I would think would be of interest.

 

I think we are bypassing the word "initial" here too much.

[MrTPlush]

I am just not a huge one year rental kind of guy and I don't think he is elite enough to pour multiple chips into. If he was more like his 2016 self I would find such a deal tempting...but I don't think he is a guy who I might expect to shutdown two games in a postseason series.

 

I would rather spend one of those pitchers, Ray, and more to get Kluber over Bumgarner.

 

Not concerned though. Because I have followed rumors for years and don't get caught up in asking prices etc. The Brewers won't give that much up unless they hate one of those three players.

[KeithStone53151]

 

You always negotiate by starting high.

 

If you want Ray+..... then you start with Burnes+....

 

IMHO the Giants hand is overplayed here. They waited way too long to rebuild. IMHO they are in a place where they absolutely must trade Madbum before the season starts. He has way more value if a team can make him a QO.

 

Starting high is all well and good, but it has to be a reasonable starting point or it's just dumb. I doubt the Brewers put Keon on the market asking for Vlad+ or similar value. This starting point isn't AS dumb as that starting point would have been, but I think you see my point. Asking Peralta for MB is not realistic even as a starting point.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

You always negotiate by starting high.

 

If you want Ray+..... then you start with Burnes+....

 

IMHO the Giants hand is overplayed here. They waited way too long to rebuild. IMHO they are in a place where they absolutely must trade Madbum before the season starts. He has way more value if a team can make him a QO.

 

Starting high is all well and good, but it has to be a reasonable starting point or it's just dumb. I doubt the Brewers put Keon on the market asking for Vlad+ or similar value. This starting point isn't AS dumb as that starting point would have been, but I think you see my point. Asking Peralta for MB is not realistic even as a starting point.

 

It also is possible that the Brewers and Stearns don't hold Peralta in as such high esteem. He looked great at times last year, but he also wouldn't be the first young pitcher to come up showing promise, only to go downhill.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I would be willing to trade Woodruff for Bumgarner.

 

Burnes or Peralta are a deal breaker for me, however.

 

Although I do remember when we had another Peralta that was "untouchable".....just sayin'

[Warning Track Power]

Asking for 1 of Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta is a significant reach for 2018 Bumgarner. The best SP prospect I would be willing to deal for 2018, FA-to-be Bumgarner is Zack Brown and that even is maybe a no from me.

[nate82]

Brown and Ray for Bumgarner, Smith and international bonus pool $.

 

Would probably need $1m to offset the difference and I can't remember if there is a max you can trade or not.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm going to assume looking again at the wording of the tweet that the conversation started with Woodruff, Peralta and Burnes for the initial ask, and when the Brewers balked and called the Giants' bluff, the talk then turned to Ray.

[FVBrewerFan]

Good example of where I see a team making the mistake of wanting quality over quantity. Everyone wants that stud in return. What the Brewers could offer (and the Giants should want) is Anderson or Davies, Perez, and Supak in return. Something like that at least.

 

Anderson would be a good pitcher in that park, locked down for a few years. Perez just seems like a Giant. Then add a younger pitcher with upside. Doesn't have the glitter of Burnes or even Ray, but that would by a good deal for the Giants.

[Warning Track Power]

Good example of where I see a team making the mistake of wanting quality over quantity. Everyone wants that stud in return. What the Brewers could offer (and the Giants should want) is Anderson or Davies, Perez, and Supak in return. Something like that at least.

 

Anderson would be a good pitcher in that park, locked down for a few years. Perez just seems like a Giant. Then add a younger pitcher with upside. Doesn't have the glitter of Burnes or even Ray, but that would by a good deal for the Giants.

Putting myself in their shoes and there is no way I am taking that deal. An astute GM knows they are not competing in the next 2 seasons and I want players that will be making their debut and contributing when that window opens again. Anderson/Davies and Perez do nothing for that window and Supak is too much of an unknown for me to accept that for Bumgarner. I understand Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta is likely not realistic and if I am dead set on a SP, I require Brown and want Erceg and Supak to round out the deal.

[TURBO]

According to Jon Morosi of MLB.com, the Brewers would have to include a young starting pitcher to land Madison Bumgarner from the Giants.

 

Morosi wrote Monday that Milwaukee is the most likely landing spot for Bumgarner, if the Giants do decide to part ways with the star left-hander this winter. He lists Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff, and Freddy Peralta as possible names that could intrigue the San Francisco front office. Bumgarner, who is set to become a free agent next offseason, posted a 3.26 ERA and 109 strikeouts over 129 2/3 innings last year after returning from a fractured pinkie.

 

Source: Jon Morosi on TwitterJan 8 - 3:25 PM

[FVBrewerFan]

Good example of where I see a team making the mistake of wanting quality over quantity. Everyone wants that stud in return. What the Brewers could offer (and the Giants should want) is Anderson or Davies, Perez, and Supak in return. Something like that at least.

 

Anderson would be a good pitcher in that park, locked down for a few years. Perez just seems like a Giant. Then add a younger pitcher with upside. Doesn't have the glitter of Burnes or even Ray, but that would by a good deal for the Giants.

Putting myself in their shoes and there is no way I am taking that deal. An astute GM knows they are not competing in the next 2 seasons and I want players that will be making their debut and contributing when that window opens again. Anderson/Davies and Perez do nothing for that window and Supak is too much of an unknown for me to accept that for Bumgarner. I understand Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta is likely not realistic and if I am dead set on a SP, I require Brown and want Erceg and Supak to round out the deal.

 

Except I doubt they're planning to rebuild in a Marlins-esque way. They may see 2019 as a salary dump year then go after it strong in 2020. Teams like the Giants or Cardinals don't sit on the sidelines for long. My offer probably is a little light, but it's more concept than exact package. The idea of getting a few solid players rather than one big headliner.

[tmwiese55]

Davis/Anderson make perfect sense even to replenish for a future window. The idea is that they'll do well in that pitchers park and you can trade for 2-3 other young pieces. So, all of a sudden Bum turns into Ray, one more minor leaguer from us, plus 2-4 more minor leaguers from re-trading Anderson later. So at least one higher tier guy in Ray plus 4 others would be the end result. I guess it's more of a gamble to bank on the re-trade but the risk/reward is there in my opinion.

[bjkrautk]

I'm going to assume looking again at the wording of the tweet that the conversation started with Woodruff, Peralta and Burnes for the initial ask, and when the Brewers balked and called the Giants' bluff, the talk then turned to Ray.

 

 

That's how I take the story as well, but the order in which the rumor has leaked out makes it confusing.

I would trade Ray, but not one of the pitching triumvirate for MadBum.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Good example of where I see a team making the mistake of wanting quality over quantity. Everyone wants that stud in return. What the Brewers could offer (and the Giants should want) is Anderson or Davies, Perez, and Supak in return. Something like that at least.

 

Anderson would be a good pitcher in that park, locked down for a few years. Perez just seems like a Giant. Then add a younger pitcher with upside. Doesn't have the glitter of Burnes or even Ray, but that would by a good deal for the Giants.

Putting myself in their shoes and there is no way I am taking that deal. An astute GM knows they are not competing in the next 2 seasons and I want players that will be making their debut and contributing when that window opens again. Anderson/Davies and Perez do nothing for that window and Supak is too much of an unknown for me to accept that for Bumgarner. I understand Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta is likely not realistic and if I am dead set on a SP, I require Brown and want Erceg and Supak to round out the deal.

 

I get why the Brewers would make Davies available, but lets not kid ourselves that he doesn't fit the window of a rebuilding club. He is entering his age 26 season and is under team control through the 2022 season. An affordable, proven innings-eating mid-rotation starter is actually a perfect fit for a rebuilding club.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't want him. I'd take him, but the one-year contract makes me think just about anything we give up that they deem acceptable is too much. The one year is the deal killer for me.

[KeithStone53151]

Good example of where I see a team making the mistake of wanting quality over quantity. Everyone wants that stud in return. What the Brewers could offer (and the Giants should want) is Anderson or Davies, Perez, and Supak in return. Something like that at least.

 

Anderson would be a good pitcher in that park, locked down for a few years. Perez just seems like a Giant. Then add a younger pitcher with upside. Doesn't have the glitter of Burnes or even Ray, but that would by a good deal for the Giants.

Putting myself in their shoes and there is no way I am taking that deal. An astute GM knows they are not competing in the next 2 seasons and I want players that will be making their debut and contributing when that window opens again. Anderson/Davies and Perez do nothing for that window and Supak is too much of an unknown for me to accept that for Bumgarner. I understand Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta is likely not realistic and if I am dead set on a SP, I require Brown and want Erceg and Supak to round out the deal.

 

There are arguments for not wanting Davies/Anderson...but those guys not fitting your window is not a good one. Too many think in terms of these dream scenarios where 17 minor leaguers are all hitting the majors at once. It doesn't work that way. You want to incrementally build yourself into a contender. With these guys, if you truly don't think you'll be good until these pitchers are long gone...they can still be flipped for prospects if they pitch well. Heck with 3 years of team control, you could get peak value if they have a good first half in either of their first 2 season by trading at the deadline.

 

An astute GM doesn't look through such a narrow lense when it comes to team building.

[Warning Track Power]

Good example of where I see a team making the mistake of wanting quality over quantity. Everyone wants that stud in return. What the Brewers could offer (and the Giants should want) is Anderson or Davies, Perez, and Supak in return. Something like that at least.

 

Anderson would be a good pitcher in that park, locked down for a few years. Perez just seems like a Giant. Then add a younger pitcher with upside. Doesn't have the glitter of Burnes or even Ray, but that would by a good deal for the Giants.

Putting myself in their shoes and there is no way I am taking that deal. An astute GM knows they are not competing in the next 2 seasons and I want players that will be making their debut and contributing when that window opens again. Anderson/Davies and Perez do nothing for that window and Supak is too much of an unknown for me to accept that for Bumgarner. I understand Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta is likely not realistic and if I am dead set on a SP, I require Brown and want Erceg and Supak to round out the deal.

 

There are arguments for not wanting Davies/Anderson...but those guys not fitting your window is not a good one. Too many think in terms of these dream scenarios where 17 minor leaguers are all hitting the majors at once. It doesn't work that way. You want to incrementally build yourself into a contender. With these guys, if you truly don't think you'll be good until these pitchers are long gone...they can still be flipped for prospects if they pitch well. Heck with 3 years of team control, you could get peak value if they have a good first half in either of their first 2 season by trading at the deadline.

 

An astute GM doesn't look through such a narrow lense when it comes to team building.

My mistake on Davies. I forgot he is only going into his age 26 season and isn't a FA until after 2021 season. As for Anderson, I will hold my ground given he is entering his age 32 season this season.

[reillymcshane]

I like Bumgarner quite a bit, and would see him as a reasonable gamble to be very good this year.

 

However, I don't like giving up starting pitching candidates for one year of service. The way we can stay successful is developing young starters. They are risky, but they can pay off big time.

 

All that said, I don't know what the Crew truly thinks (I say 'truly' because in public they are going to say they love them) of our young arms, such as Peralta and Woodruff. If they aren't enamored with them - well I understand if they are willing to deal.

 

I just hate giving up young talent that we will need in the coming years. Chacin is a FA after the season. As is Bumgarner. Who knows what's up with Jimmy Nelson. We need guys to step up and be part of the rotation in the coming years. I dislike fishing in the waters of mediocre free agents.

[KeithStone53151]

My mistake on Davies. I forgot he is only going into his age 26 season and isn't a FA until after 2021 season. As for Anderson, I will hold my ground given he is entering his age 32 season this season.

 

Davies would probably be a better fit than Anderson I'll agree. A guy like Anderson is more exclusively a flip candidate immediately, or for a team that could contend in 2021 or possibly 2020. The Marlins somewhat fit this with all the talent they have in the upper minors, but the Giants really don't. The Giants are in for a longer rebuild most likely, depending how much $ they use to speed the process.