Woodruff vs Peralta

[CheezWizHed]

So I'm assuming there is going to be a movement of our young MiLB starters/MLB BP arms to the starting rotation this year, but I doubt they move all three of Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta to the starting rotation this year (at least to begin with). I'm assuming Burnes as one spot wrapped up.

 

So if the last starting spot comes down to Peralta and Woodruff, who gets it? Which do you think would be better suited out of the BP? Both players had their good stretches and their warts in starting and both hold a lot of promise too. And to be clear, this question is only for 2019 season. I think long term they will both be starters.

 

Woodruff has the better overall starting profile in my opinion. He has the stronger arm and more MLB pitches (for now). Given his playoff run (and Peralta's minimal usage), I would say he is ahead of Peralta at the moment. Woodruff's weaknesses have been around control and getting exposed the third time through the lineup. But I was greatly impressed by his control in the playoffs. He went toe-to-toe with everyone out there and didn't blink.

 

Peralta relies more on deception (i.e hiding the ball in his delivery), but has good stuff too. He had a very good MLB debut last year and showed he can be a MLB starter. He has two strong MLB pitches (FB and CB), but struggles more with a third (Change-up). He does occasionally have the same control issues as Woodruff (especially with the CB), though not as many bad stretches.

 

I've long thought that Peralta would be a BP arm given his two pitches, but he certainly showed that he could do it with practically one pitch (80% FBs). At 21, he has time to get his CB and CH up to MLB snuff and could be a lights out starter. But I'll guess he starts in the BP this year and is used as a 3+ inning BP arm. Not the traditional long man/mop up guy, but more like Burnes and Hader were used this year.

[markedman5]

I think Woodruff has the better profile for starting or the pen.

 

Peralta is dominant vs righties but bad vs lefties.

 

If you have to choose one for each.....I'd go with Woodruff as the starter.

 

I think I'd have Peralta in the rotation at AAA working on his command and another pitch that can get lefties out.

[trwi7]

I think Woodruff is a flat out better pitcher than Peralta, so I go with him.

[MrTPlush]

With all the promotions to the rotation it will leave quite a void at AAA as far as depth goes. I am sure someone is brought in as depth, but even then I think it is likely Peralta goes to AAA as rotational depth.

 

I could see them sticking him in the pen, but at least early on he might as well stay stretched out because we will need him many times for injuries.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

I think Woodruff is a flat out better pitcher than Peralta, so I go with him.

Agree. Woodruff is just better. I don’t buy Peralta being all that good once teams start getting more looks or data on him. He doesn’t have a great secondary and his FB command is pretty poor and he leaves 88-93 MPH FB in the zone way too often. I’d honestly be looking to trade Peralta this offseason to try and sell high.

[Eye Black]

I would like to see the Brewers add left-handed starting pitchers this off-season (or resign Miley). I think Peralta is the perfect pitcher to cover the middle innings in a game that starts with a lefty. The ability to have a combination of [lefty starter for 4-5] + [Peralta for 2-3] + [Hader for 2-3] seems almost unfair.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think Peralta will start season in San Antonio. Burnes and Woodruff both in the bigs, but I have a feeling one will still be in the pen to start the season and one will be in the rotation. While I think both are worthy of starting, one of the two could be very valuable out of the pen in a right handed Hader role.

[WV Brew]

While it's true that Peralta was much worse against lefties in the Major Leagues last year, in the minors he has been better against lefties than righties interestingly enough. Personally, I don't think he will be around long. Hitters seem to get him with more at bats.

[brewcrewdue80]

I appreciate both. Flamethrowe vs deception delivery. Jimmy Nelson vs Mike Fiers. Win with both. Nelson took off when he developed and worked a 3rd pitch in to his repertoire. If you have to pick a guy, you take which ever of the two is throwing a 3rd pitch better in ST. Which is multiple months away and time to work on 3rd pitch ability vs where they stand today. Woodruff would be higher likely to succeed longer because velocity is higher. When the drop in it occurs He's likely throwing ML avg while Peralta drops off to batting practice level. Oh wait he's younger, maybe his arm doesn't tail off it's velocity for 6 more years.

Both are keepers. Enjoy the depth and quality. Lottery tickets are more likely to hit on with the more tickets you have.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Correction to the initial post - Woodruff's struggles begin his 2ND time through (.889 OPS 2nd time through). The Brewers never even let him go a 3rd time through, even in his starts. He faced all of 2 batters all season a 3rd time through the lineup. Peralta actually had good splits his 3RD time through, a dominant BAA and is the one of the two who has actually had success as a starter. Woodruff has shined as a reliever.

 

I see the poster two above me said with regard to Peralta, "hitters seem to get him with more at bats". That a great descriptor for Woodruff and couldn't be farther from the truth for Peralta. The only starting pitcher in the majors who matched Peralta's batting average against of .178 was Blake Snell of Tampa Bay. Peralta's 3rd time through OPS against (.574) was actually lower than the 1st and 2nd time through for him. And in his postseason appearance he put up a line matched only once before in MLB history by some guy named Pedro Martinez.

 

Perception continues to lead people to say some very inaccurate things about Peralta.

 

I don't think I've ever witnessed a more misunderstood pitcher.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I appreciate both. Flamethrowe vs deception delivery. Jimmy Nelson vs Mike Fiers. Win with both. Nelson took off when he developed and worked a 3rd pitch in to his repertoire. If you have to pick a guy, you take which ever of the two is throwing a 3rd pitch better in ST. Which is multiple months away and time to work on 3rd pitch ability vs where they stand today. Woodruff would be higher likely to succeed longer because velocity is higher. When the drop in it occurs He's likely throwing ML avg while Peralta drops off to batting practice level. Oh wait he's younger, maybe his arm doesn't tail off it's velocity for 6 more years.

Both are keepers. Enjoy the depth and quality. Lottery tickets are more likely to hit on with the more tickets you have.

 

Oh where to begin...

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Both are essentially 2-pitch pitchers at this point. Woodruff is 4-seam fastball and slider. Peralta is 4-seam fastball and curve.

 

Where Peralta separates himself and why he had more success multiple trips through is three-fold. One, Peralta has far greater movement on his fastball. Two, his unearthly extension allows him to release the baseball so much closer to the plate than average that it acts to add the hitter equivalent of nearly 3 mph on his fastball. And three, Peralta throws two distinctively different fastballs with different actions almost split equally, essentially acting as a 3rd pitch. He throws his 4-seam and also throws one where he rotates his grip and it acts as a cutter.

 

The movement on Peralta's fastball is not often seen in major league baseball. It gives him a huge advantage over Woodruff. You can't teach that kind of movement. You either have it or you don't.

 

Please don't take this as knocking Woodruff or even saying Peralta is better (though I do think he is). This is info sharing to give people a better idea of the facts of both.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

When you look at Woodruff's average fastball velocity as a starter as opposed to relief, he like most pitchers isn't going to throw as hard if called on to pitch 5-6 innings like a starter traditionally would. So if you've got Woodruff throwing 95 straight as opposed to 97 straight and compare that to Peralta at 92 with movement and extreme extension that deceptively equates to an extra 3 mph, you've essentially got both throwing 95 as starters. One just happens to have ridiculously more movement.

 

The great news for Woodruff is that he may never be called on and expected to give 5-6 innings. He can be used very effectively and invaluably for 3-4 innings, even potentially as an initial out getter. And if he develops a 3rd pitch, even better.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Oh and did I mention one is 22 and the other turns 26 in February?

[brewmann04]

seems to be a great problem to have for the brewers

[RollieTime]

I think Peralta should be in the rotation and Woodruff stays in the bullpen. Peralta is young and will develop better command the more he pitches. His future is as a starter and his ceiling is as high as a guy we have had come through our system in a long time.

 

Woodruff fits the role as being a guy who can come in from the pen for 3 innings and shut down a game. Similar to Hader, but less overpowering if that makes sense. Woodruff is a weapon out of the pen and may be better suited to make a career out of that role. He can spot start if the need comes up during the season as well.

[Eye Black]

For those curious, pitch type percentages in 2018...

 

Woodruff:

Fastball - 64.1%

Slider - 23.2%

Change up - 11.3%

Curveball - 1.3%

 

Peralta:

Fastball - 77.6%

Curveball - 19.5%

Change up - 2.8%

[LouisEly]

Peralta struggles in the first inning. When you put your team behind early, it forces the manager to make decisions. Peralta's 1st inning ERA this year was 7.98. He needs to work on getting out of the gate better. Overall, I think Woodruff has better command (right now). Peralta has things to work on, and I think should work on them in AAA to start 2019.

 

With as much as Woodruff was yanked back and forth between the majors and AAA and between starting and relieving, I take his time-through-the-order stats with a grain of salt. He never had a consistent role. And they're small samples with both guys.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Peralta struggles in the first inning. When you put your team behind early, it forces the manager to make decisions. Peralta's 1st inning ERA this year was 7.98. He needs to work on getting out of the gate better. Overall, I think Woodruff has better command (right now). Peralta has things to work on, and I think should work on them in AAA to start 2019.

 

With as much as Woodruff was yanked back and forth between the majors and AAA and between starting and relieving, I take his time-through-the-order stats with a grain of salt. He never had a consistent role. And they're small samples with both guys.

 

Some good points here. Peralta definitely needs to figure out why he starts each outing so slow. That's plagued other pitchers before and has proven to be correctable. The hope is that with growth and experience his first inning wildness goes away. The one time he repeated a level his control improved dramatically. That will be something to watch if he breaks with the big club out of spring training. My prediction is that he's in Milwaukee from day one.

 

And for sure, small samples for both. Woodruff does have good control so that's a big plus for him. As said by someone above, this is a great problem to have. Woodruff just needs to develop a 3rd pitch. His troubles going through an order even a 2nd time are real. That's no fluke. When you throw a straight fastball and only have the slider to go with it, batters are tuned in and ready to tee off on a repeat viewing. Woodruff really needs that 3rd pitch.

 

The awesome news is that pitchers refine command (Peralta) and add 3rd pitches (Woodruff) all the time. And worst case these guys can very effectively be used the way they already have. I think people forget the success Peralta had as a starter. And Woodruff has shown he can be a force for 2-3 innings. Plenty of reason to expect more growth from both, especially Peralta given his age.

[CheezWizHed]

Woodruff just needs to develop a 3rd pitch. His troubles going through an order even a 2nd time are real. That's no fluke. When you throw a straight fastball and only have the slider to go with it, batters are tuned in and ready to tee off on a repeat viewing. Woodruff really needs that 3rd pitch.

 

In terms of sharing facts, you should note Eye Black's stats on Woodruff's 3rd pitch. FB and Slider were his heavy two, but he was still throwing 11% change ups. By comparison, Kershaw's third pitch averages about 13%.

[rickh150]

I think Peralta should be in the rotation and Woodruff stays in the bullpen. Peralta is young and will develop better command the more he pitches. His future is as a starter and his ceiling is as high as a guy we have had come through our system in a long time.

 

Woodruff fits the role as being a guy who can come in from the pen for 3 innings and shut down a game. Similar to Hader, but less overpowering if that makes sense. Woodruff is a weapon out of the pen and may be better suited to make a career out of that role. He can spot start if the need comes up during the season as well.

 

All of this....

[LouisEly]

I wouldn't say that Woodruff is less overpowering than Hader. In the playoffs Woodruff was consistently hitting 97-98 for 3-4 innings. Hader tops out at a max of 97 and starts losing velocity after 25-30 pitches.

 

Hader definitely hides the ball better, which makes his 94-95 look like 100. But he can't sustain his velocity as long as Woodruff can.

[rickh150]

I wouldn't say that Woodruff is less overpowering than Hader. In the playoffs Woodruff was consistently hitting 97-98 for 3-4 innings. Hader tops out at a max of 97 and starts losing velocity after 25-30 pitches.

 

Hader definitely hides the ball better, which makes his 94-95 look like 100. But he can't sustain his velocity as long as Woodruff can.

 

Woodruff wasn't ever hitting 97-99 in his starts like he was in his playoff spots......he threw really hard in a few playoff games. Hader threw mid to upper 90's all season- very sustainable for a couple innings. I'm not sure if Woodruff could hold up throwing that extra hard for 7 months. Worth finding out, though...

 

Interesting to see what happens...

[JohnBriggs12]

Oh and did I mention one is 22 and the other turns 26 in February?

 

Exactly. Peralta will get stronger naturally. Woodruff is at his physical peak. It's hard to ignore these stats:

 

49 hits allowed in 78 1/3 innings, a 1.136 Whip, 96 K's. If he learns to command his curveball better, Peralta won't need a third pitch to be an effective starter. He was an effective starter with marginal command already. His curve is a devastating out pitch and hitters had trouble picking up his fastball at 91. When he's more consistently at 94, he's a right handed Hader.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

With all the starters they have, neither may be in the rotation. I think Peralta has more to work on and will likely start in AAA but I see him as a starter long term. The brewers were very cautious with Woodruff and did not let him go a third time through the order. Maybe his postseason performance will change their minds. For now, I see him as a shutdown long reliever. Extremely valuable with the Brewers current rotation.

 

I think the brewers will get a LH starter this offseason and maybe trade Chase Anderson. They have Chacin, Nelson, Burnes, Anderson?, Davies. I think Guerra will be in the bullpen (as will Hader). That's a lot of depth. Plus more waiting in the wings at AAA/AA (Z.Brown, Supak, Diplan, Derby, Roegner, Webb)