Game thread: Green Bay at New England Patriots, 11/04/18

[OldSchoolSnapper]

This is the first season in a while that the majority of the disappointment rests with the offense IMO. They have not closed games, have disappeared for 50-75% of some games, and just have not had a rhythm.

 

The final and stats of this game will betray the defense. They kept us in this one, offense did not help at all.

 

And also why McCarthy will be fired. It's his masterful offense that's been awful.

 

 

 

McCarthy is one of the best coaches in the league. McCarthy is one of the best coaches in Packers history.

 

But..as Walsh said...you have a lifespan of 10 years in the NFL. After that, your message gets stale. Look at Andy Reid. He was run outta Philly after 5 trips to the NFCG...and now his offense looks brand new after a few years in KC. I think MM will be similar. I just hope we can hit on the FIRST coach we hire after MM and not waste 2-3 more years in the meantime.

 

One of the best in the league because he piggybacked off Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers and ran up his career wins total? We've thrown away another year of Aaron Rodgers doing this stupidity. The guy is unimaginative, won't play his best players, and is flat garbage.

 

Belichick won with Matt Cassel. Tomlin won with Landry freaking Jones. Zimmer won with Case Keenum and whoever else on the QB carousel over there. Pete Carroll as much as I hate him is a better coach. Sean McVay is running circles around McCarthy and pretty much the rest of the league. Sean Payton is a good coach. Nagy is pulling a miracle with Trubisky. Mike McCarthy has aborted seasons with Brett Hundley among others. Give me a break on the best coaches in the league stuff, he's barely top 10.

 

Elite coaches don't plant players like Aaron Jones on the bench while continuing to force guys like Randall Cobb in there who is washed up aside from a couple fluke bombs the past few years implanted in our memories. Only the idiots like the Dolphins, Browns, Bengals, etc coaches do.

 

I agree on the whole, but I don't think any coach would have saved 2018. The roster is a mess, and a bunch of bad TT decisions finally caught up with them. When Rodgers (justifiably) controls such a large portion of cap space, you simply cannot afford to have massive amounts tied to guys like Cobb, Matthews and Perry. When you sign Rodgers, the rest of the team becomes similar to the Brewers in a way. He can mask a lot of flaws, but you need to do a really good job with what's left over, and they just haven't.

 

I think they are primed for a very good 2019. A lot of money coming off the books, a very strong '18 draft class, and a bunch of picks in '19. This year was a soft rebuild. BG brought in some low-risk guys that might get us over the hump if Rodgers pulls off another miracle but it's not working. They are playing teams like LAR and NE very tough. They're close, but lack some experience and a couple impact guys.

 

But I also reject MM as an elite coach. I defended him for a while, but soured on him in 2015. It's time to go and I'm confident he's fired New Year's Eve.

[KeithStone53151]

Regarding the ejection, I wouldn't mind it as much if it was even remotely consistent. There were probably 10 instances of that happening yesterday, and 1 ejection. There were probably over 100 similar instances of that happening this season, and 1 ejection. As soon as that happened, this felt like one of those games where Vegas needed the Patriots to cover so the refs started making stuff up.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Vegas needed to cover so eject Jermaine Whitehead after he slaps someone in the head. That plan would have very easily been foiled by him not slapping someone in the head.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Vegas needed to cover so eject Jermaine Whitehead after he slaps someone in the head. That plan would have very easily been foiled by him not slapping someone in the head.

 

Or Jermaine Whitehead actually being a valuable player, and not the worthless scrub that he actually is.

[brewcrewdue80]

Watched this game cuz Brady v Rodgers. I see not much has changed since week 3. Officials crucial flag calls hurting Green Bay. Ejection? Wow. Pretty sure weve seen what? OBJ? That Giants WR throw aggressive punches and not get ejected, just flagged.

2DBs down add #3 in King. Add OT Bulaga. Then for encore Martinez rolls ankle steppi g on Brady! Rodgers had multiple injured moments once again due to pathetic Oline protection. McCarthy takes amped up Offense and proceeds back to 5second dropbacks ignores running game's success, takes Jones out after fumble on good hit...2hand protection unlucky timing...oh on a 10? Yard gain. Deflation complete especially with that Edelman trick screen pass play.

How does the rest of NFL allow the Patriots to steal a #1 WR? They seriously seem to make the best midseason trades every year! Gordon clearly best WR on field. Adams ought to be embarrassed how JG made huge impact while he sucked it up. Cobb was a joke out there. It all became worse because McCarthy can't stop himself from relying on Rodgers and not a run game. How do you keep the ball away from a 6yd per carry RB over and over? Ditched the runs after that fumble and Offense was predictable.

Oh, another official review, I thought Adams? Caught that ball. 2arms/hands cradles underneath the ball. So what it deflected off his chest? His hands/arms were cradling below the ball. Called a catch and enough to overturn that? Oh now I remember. The bonehead run in to punter call that was described as just a 5yard penalty that was called auto 1st down. 4th&21 and you have such a punt rush?

Enjoy the rest of a losing season. Dont think theres another matchup to bring me back to NFL watching.

[KeithStone53151]

Vegas needed to cover so eject Jermaine Whitehead after he slaps someone in the head. That plan would have very easily been foiled by him not slapping someone in the head.

 

Or Jermaine Whitehead actually being a valuable player, and not the worthless scrub that he actually is.

 

Every little subtle excuse to tilt the odds in the Patriots favor. I can't figure out another way to explain ejecting someone for something that happens regularly and literally never ever ever ever ever ever ever results in an ejection. Add in the roughing the punter penalty that definitely should have been the 5 yard and not the 15 yard variety. I'm sure there was other nonsense that I don't remember off the top of my head. The refs have generally been out to get the Packers all year. Last week against the Rams was the only game all season I don't recall the refs completely screwing us over with a well-timed terrible call...but also that game the refs might as well have left their flags in the locker room as it was basically anything goes all game(which I'm not complaining about, rather have that than let the refs determine the outcome of games).

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The refs have been out to get the Packers? Do people actually, genuinely believe this sort of thing?

 

They aren't very good, and a lot of people thought they were .500 or slightly below team. The Packers have had comedic errors this season in nearly every loss. They could have beaten Minnesota, LAR, and had a chance last night and took themselves out of these game with self-inflicted mistakes. Refs don't take kickoffs out of the end zone or fumble on game-changing drives.

 

Why would the same officials conspiring review a play and take a NE touchdown off the board? If you think the refs or Vegas had Whitehead ejected it may be time to take a few weeks off. Why are you watching if you think the game is fixed? That seems counter-intuitive.

 

I don't get the complaining about the ejection. It is all moot if he simply does not smack the dude in the head. That some other official doesn't make the call doesn't mean he can't be reasonably ejected for it. Most of those things go unseen by the officials, and even when those little spats happen, I'll say again, the contact is rarely as solid and flagrant as it was. I'm never going to defend any player getting tossed for slapping somebody in the face. It was stupid and they tossed the idiot. Good.

[FVBrewerFan]

It is actually possible for both to be true. Players made bone-headed mistakes, AND the refs were "wrong" in my opinion. (Whitehead, and roughing the punter.)

 

I've never seen an ejection for something that minor, and by rule it was not roughing the punter. So yes, the refs blew those calls, and the players were at fault for putting the refs inposition to make those bad calls.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The refs being wrong is a far cry from the refs have it out for the Packers, or the famed "Vegas needed it."

 

The roughing call was blown, but ultimately moot as the Packers forced a 3 and out on the following plays.Yes it changed field position, but was your typical blown call that happens every week in every game.

[pacopete4]

I don't believe the refs are out to get us but I do believe we have been on the bad side of a lot of really questionable calls this year. In the NFL, all these teams are so close and all it takes is a few really terrible calls to go the other way and you're losing a game.

[nodakfan17]

The refs being wrong is a far cry from the refs have it out for the Packers, or the famed "Vegas needed it."

 

The roughing call was blown, but ultimately moot as the Packers forced a 3 and out on the following plays.Yes it changed field position, but was your typical blown call that happens every week in every game.

Yeah, but it kept the depleted defense on the field longer. Again, all these little things added up to doom the Packers.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Packers were doomed when Aaron Jones coughed up the rock in the middle of a great drive that looked poised to give them a 24-17 lead. That is without a doubt the single play that most shifted their chances last night.

[nodakfan17]

The Packers were doomed when Aaron Jones coughed up the rock in the middle of a great drive that looked poised to give them a 24-17 lead. That is without a doubt the single play that most shifted their chances last night.

Hard to argue against that. The poor guy has one career fumble on a hard tackle. What a time for it to come. Packers’ season in a nutshell.

[PeaveyFury]

Lost in all of the questions about talent, etc. and the (correct) criticism of Thompson's recent drafts, that 2017 draft looks to be fairly solid at this point. Williams and Jones seem to have the makings of legit 1-2 tandem talent, I maintain hope for Josh Jones and look forward to his increased playing time, and King looks to be a legit corner when he's able to be on the field. The 'able to be on the field' part of that probably ends up making or breaking the '17 class, but at this point things seem to be encouraging.

[homer]

The Packers were doomed when Aaron Jones coughed up the rock in the middle of a great drive that looked poised to give them a 24-17 lead. That is without a doubt the single play that most shifted their chances last night.

 

Well yeah turnovers are the biggest factor in determining wins and losses. And since there was only one in the game it gave NE a huge advantage.

[KeithStone53151]

I don't believe the refs are out to get us but I do believe we have been on the bad side of a lot of really questionable calls this year. In the NFL, all these teams are so close and all it takes is a few really terrible calls to go the other way and you're losing a game.

 

How many games in a row do we need to be on the bad side of really questionable calls before you wonder whether it's an intentional pattern? Whatever the reason, we are getting screwed. Against the Vikings we had a guaranteed win had they not called the nonsense roughing the passer penalty. There's no debate, it was a done deal. No penalty equals kneel downs. We actually should have lost that game after the refs basically teed it up for them. Fortunately their kicker was trash. Every week except against the Rams, we've had far more questionable calls go against us than for us.

 

The "happens every week stuff" is when Bahktiara gets called for a hold that is questionable, but then Jaire Alexander gets away with being super handsy and legit holding on a WR. That's every week stuff that happens to every team in all directions and I won't really bat an eye at. It's the critical calls that keep consistently going against us. The roughing the punter on 4th and a million, the roughing the passer to keep the game from being over. The other roughing the passer penalties that were clearly not roughing penalties.

 

I was honestly surprised they reversed the TD at the goalline yesterday. At some point, you have to actually call the game correctly or it's too obvious you are tilting the odds. Plus, you have to figure with 2 more tries, that the Patriots could punch it in.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Why would the league be out for the Packers, specifically? This is tin foil hat stuff, man. The only difference between this year and many others is that the Packers aren't good enough to overcome mundane bad calls. A pass interference or roughing the passer is forgotten when the Packers win 37-20. When the team is bad and has no margin for error these little things stay in your head. You can visit any message board of any marginal team and you will usually find a solid group of people convinced they "get no calls" and "would be a playoff team if not for a single play in Weeks 2, 6 and 9."

 

Roughing the punter is miscalled pretty often. They coach those guys to crumble on contact for that reason.

 

The Packers also drew an illegal contact penalty against SF which you left off your list. It was 3rd and 15 and in essence gave them the game.

 

 

I'm not saying it was a bad call, but was the anti-Packer crusade on break that week or what?

[homer]

Yeah that stuff evens out over the course of a season. Packers got a very favorable spot on a Davante Adams catch that would not have been a 1st down.

[FVBrewerFan]

The Packers were doomed when Aaron Jones coughed up the rock in the middle of a great drive that looked poised to give them a 24-17 lead. That is without a doubt the single play that most shifted their chances last night.

 

Well yeah turnovers are the biggest factor in determining wins and losses. And since there was only one in the game it gave NE a huge advantage.

 

Yea, as the game turned out it certainly was the turning point, but it didn't HAVE to play out that way. They just needed a big play to respond to that, and they couldn't come up with one.

 

It was still 17-17 and the Pats had it relatively deep in their own territory. At that point the game was far from over, or at least it shouldn't have been. They simply have no ability to play 4 full quarters of football. So Jones is the excuse, but they gave up 14 points after that and couldn't come close to scoring themselves after that.

 

MM just looks and sounds defeated, not the same person who was always confident, even defiant in the face of adversity. Maybe it's just me, but he just looks like he's punching the clock every week and knows he's done at the end of the season.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I doubt MM has given up or is punching the clock. They have been left for dead numerous times during his tenure, and he is more immune to the ups and downs as someone who has lived them over and over. They have looked worse than this. 4-6 in 2016 and getting walloped numerous times before turning it on. "Run the table" was mocked before it started to happen.

 

I think that an unlikely outcome, but something like that is still within possibility. The rest of the schedule contains many winnable games, if they find a groove and start figuring out how to finish drives and games.

[KeithStone53151]

I doubt MM has given up or is punching the clock. They have been left for dead numerous times during his tenure, and he is more immune to the ups and downs as someone who has lived them over and over. They have looked worse than this. 4-6 in 2016 and getting walloped numerous times before turning it on. "Run the table" was mocked before it started to happen.

 

I think that an unlikely outcome, but something like that is still within possibility. The rest of the schedule contains many winnable games, if they find a groove and start figuring out how to finish drives and games.

 

The Packers did look like a very good team against the 2 best teams in football on the road the last 2 weeks. We were arguably a couple key turnovers away from winning both games. Winning against the Patriots is a bit more up for debate, but I think our odds of winning that Rams game were very high had Montgomery not gone against the coaches wishes and run the ball out of the end zone. Considering we just faced the best 2 teams in football, level of competition only goes down from here for the rest of the season. We probably need to win 6-7 of our last 8 games to make the playoffs, not impossible.

 

I also believe this team only gets better as the season goes on...assuming we get back to decent health with some key guys on defense. We play so many young players, and they are only going to improve as they get comfortable in the system and get more reps in game action. The Rodgers-MVS connection will also hopefully improve. That guy looks at worst like an excellent deep threat and at best like AJ Green lite. Also the biggest factor, Rodgers is looking better and better on that knee as he distances himself from the injury.

[LouisEly]

The Packers were doomed when Aaron Jones coughed up the rock in the middle of a great drive that looked poised to give them a 24-17 lead. That is without a doubt the single play that most shifted their chances last night.

After the Patriots scored off of the turnover the Packers were down 24-17 with 10 minutes left. Rodgers proceeded to go 2-7 for 15 yards after that point. The turnover didn't doom them; it was the inability to respond and move the ball.

 

A big part of that was the left side of the OL. Bak looked lost in the 2nd half; he and Taylor to a lesser extent were getting beat left and right by Claiborne and Flowers. At least Spriggs looked good - by my count he only gave up one pressure, no hits, no sacks.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

A game is not a piece of machinery, you can't just pick apart certain parts and decide how it would have gone.

 

Anybody watching that game could tell the wheels fell off right after that fumble. If they go up 24-17 the complexion of the game is totally different. They aren't playing the entire 4th quarter from behind.

[homer]

A game is not a piece of machinery, you can't just pick apart certain parts and decide how it would have gone.

 

Anybody watching that game could tell the wheels fell off right after that fumble. If they go up 24-17 the complexion of the game is totally different. They aren't playing the entire 4th quarter from behind.

 

You say you can't pick apart certain parts and decide how it would have gone and then say the game would have been totally different had something not happened.

[CheezWizHed]

Lost in all of the questions about talent, etc. and the (correct) criticism of Thompson's recent drafts, that 2017 draft looks to be fairly solid at this point. Williams and Jones seem to have the makings of legit 1-2 tandem talent, I maintain hope for Josh Jones and look forward to his increased playing time, and King looks to be a legit corner when he's able to be on the field. The 'able to be on the field' part of that probably ends up making or breaking the '17 class, but at this point things seem to be encouraging.

 

That is true with one big asterisk. TJ Watt. I actually liked the King+Biegel draft over TJ pick at the time of the draft. But Biegel is gone and King just can't stay healthy... and Watt has 7 sacks this year. Ouch that was a miss.