2B/3B Options

[Oxy]

Yangervis Solarte is a name I haven't seen mentioned around here. Switch hitting utility infielder coming off a bad year for the Blue Jays. I don't know what his D is like. If he is a solid fielder he could be a decent cheap option to pick up and look for a bounce back year. Marwin Gonzalez lite.

[502 to Right]

Hard no on Murphy.

 

Care to elaborate? His bat is seemingly what this lineup is currently missing. Defense may be an issue, but I'll chalk up his bad defense last year to coming off an injury. He showed last year that while his bat may not be what it was during his prime run with the Nationals, he's still very dangerous. He also hasn't had drastic splits vs RHP and LHP up until last year, so hopefully last year was an an outlier.

 

Personally I'd prefer LeMahieu or Marwin Gonzalez, but it is quite possible that those two are either too expensive or are seeking too long of a contract. That leaves the Brewers choosing from guys like Murphy and Dozier.

 

Brutal defense. No thanks.

[FVBrewerFan]

Stearns just reiterated on mlb network radio that 2nd base is the one spot on the roster they feel they definitely need to resolve this off season.

 

Makes me think he doesn't feel he has a definite need. He's a GM, which means believe the opposite of most things he says. We see this over and over again.

 

Last year, the last thing anyone thought Stearns would do last season is get an OF. He got two. Does he need a 2B? Of course, right now Perez or Shaw would be the starting 2B. They have had discussions internally about Hiura, and we simply don't know what the plan is. But for all we know the plan is to start him from day one. Maybe use a filler until his Super 2 is passed. We also know they're very high on Dubon.

 

No, Stearns is all about value. And I will not be shocked if the biggest move me makes this off-season is for another OF. I don't know who that will be, but he'll be LH. Maybe Brantley. Perfect fit for this team.

[Oxy]

Red Sox said Xander Bogaerts might be available on his last arby year this year. I have no idea what the Sox would be looking for, but bullpen help would probably be a decent guess.

 

Three years of arby controlled Corey Knebel for Bogaerts, Darwinzon Hernandez and Durbin Feltman?

[SRB]

Murphy has historically been a below average defender, not a "terrible" defender. So annoying when some claim just becomes received wisdom even though it's totally divorced from facts/statistics.

 

Sorry to bring fantasy baseball into this ( ), but I followed Murphy's season very closely last year because I whiffed on picking him early. The reason he was so bad both defensively, and below his standards offensively, was because of his offseason knee surgery. He was initially supposed to be ready around Opening Day but it just kept getting pushed back further and further and he wasn't even doing on-field drills. Then eventually the Nationals ran out of patience months into the season and just rushed him back, even though he could not run at full speed or move side-to-side comfortably, and even though his in-game preparation was perfunctory. Obviously that's a problem at 2B.

 

Major surgery like that is still a big red flag, so it's not like Murphy is going to get the contract he would have after 2016-2017, but the upside there is tremendous. If he signs on a 2-year deal we would be very lucky.

 

He can definitely play 1B and I see no reason he can't be a super utility get in a corner OF too. He was a speedy player prior to his injury. Everything depends on whether he's healthy, of course.

[Eye Black]

The Brewers have reportedly met with Ian Kinsler at the Winter Meetings per Haudricourt (Twitter Link).

[wallus]

I am guessing you have to take a number with all of these meetings.

[long ball]

Something interesting of note for Ian Kinsler:

 

Baseball Prospectus' new batting stat DRC+ rates Kinsler at about league average the past two seasons while wRC+ has him below average the past two seasons. So if the Brewers see his offense as close to league average he makes more sense than I thought he did coming into the off season.

 

Kinsler will almost certainly only get a one year deal since he's 36.

 

Very strong defense + league average-ish bat as a stop gap till they call up Hiura is totally acceptable on a 1 yr $5mm deal.

[clancyphile]

Murphy has historically been a below average defender, not a "terrible" defender. So annoying when some claim just becomes received wisdom even though it's totally divorced from facts/statistics.

 

Sorry to bring fantasy baseball into this ( ), but I followed Murphy's season very closely last year because I whiffed on picking him early. The reason he was so bad both defensively, and below his standards offensively, was because of his offseason knee surgery. He was initially supposed to be ready around Opening Day but it just kept getting pushed back further and further and he wasn't even doing on-field drills. Then eventually the Nationals ran out of patience months into the season and just rushed him back, even though he could not run at full speed or move side-to-side comfortably, and even though his in-game preparation was perfunctory. Obviously that's a problem at 2B.

 

Major surgery like that is still a big red flag, so it's not like Murphy is going to get the contract he would have after 2016-2017, but the upside there is tremendous. If he signs on a 2-year deal we would be very lucky.

 

He can definitely play 1B and I see no reason he can't be a super utility get in a corner OF too. He was a speedy player prior to his injury. Everything depends on whether he's healthy, of course.

 

Murphy would be worth $5 million in 2019 and 2020, and a team option of $6 million in 2021, and another team option of $7 million in 2022. The 2021 option has a $1 million buyout, the 2022 option has a $2 million buyout.

[Jopal78]

Neil Walker back in 2019 as a stop gap?

 

He had a career low BABiP (.257) last year which likely explains his poor overall slash line .219/.309/.354. It appears his eye for balls and strikes remains intact, and his ground out to fly out ratio remained at his career mark. He also played 100 innings or so at 1B, 2B, 3B, and RF with mixed results, plus he switch hits for more versatility. I like him on a one year deal or one year deal with option for a 2nd season.

[502 to Right]

Murphy has historically been a below average defender, not a "terrible" defender. So annoying when some claim just becomes received wisdom even though it's totally divorced from facts/statistics.

 

He has a bunch of double digit negative DRS seasons. I think that qualifies as "terrible."

 

In his defense I would not classify him as "the worst fielding second baseman ever."

[SRB]

Murphy has historically been a below average defender, not a "terrible" defender. So annoying when some claim just becomes received wisdom even though it's totally divorced from facts/statistics.

 

He has a bunch of double digit negative DRS seasons. I think that qualifies as "terrible."

 

In his defense I would not classify him as "the worst fielding second baseman ever."

 

Yeah, he's not good, but I don't consider that terrible especially in light of more favorable metrics like UZR. Adjusted for playing time he's roughly equivalent to Scooter Gennett, as a reference point.

 

DRS also thinks Villar is a competent defender, for what it's worth

[rickh150]

Gotta believe that they are looking for a righty bat.

[DHonks]

Gotta believe that they are looking for a righty bat.

 

do tell.

 

we have a LF, CF, SS, 1b, and C that are RH, and our park favors LH hitters. I'd like another lefty if possible, especially since most pitchers are righty.

[clancyphile]

Gotta believe that they are looking for a righty bat.

 

do tell.

 

we have a LF, CF, SS, 1b, and C that are RH, and our park favors LH hitters. I'd like another lefty if possible, especially since most pitchers are righty.

 

Both the SS and C struggled offensively, the SS so badly he was sent to the minors. The 1B was very streaky.

[rickh150]

Gotta believe that they are looking for a righty bat.

 

Then again, without Moose and Granderson, the only lefties are Shaw, Thames, and Yelich, right? I'll backtrack on this one.

[JohnBriggs12]

Gotta believe that they are looking for a righty bat.

 

do tell.

 

we have a LF, CF, SS, 1b, and C that are RH, and our park favors LH hitters. I'd like another lefty if possible, especially since most pitchers are righty.

 

I think the need for a RH bat stems from the rotation the Cubs throw at them. Certainly with Shaw at 3rd and Murphy at 2B, they'd have Perez in the lineup at one of those spots against a LH pitcher, but he's not the threat against LHP that either Shaw or Murphy are vs. RHP.

 

A guy nobody's mentioned who admittedly is coming off a bad year is Yangervis Solarte, who was non-tendered by Blue Jays. He can play both 2B and 3B and he's got some pop from both sides. They could sign him and say Dietrich and have plenty of options for Counsell to maneuver around. I liked Solarte a lot when he was in SD. He's terrorized the Brewers with 8 HR in 84 lifetime AB's and a 1.035 OPS with almost all of that damage coming at Miller Park where he has a 1.167 career OPS. Seems like the perfect guy to replace Thames on the roster. He doesn't strike out as much as Thames and can be used all around the infield including giving Aguilar a rest on occasion at 1B. An added plus is he'd fit in with the other Venezuelans on the roster.

[502 to Right]

I'd like either Brian Dozier or Ian Kinsler on a one year deal.

 

I could live with Daniel Murphy on a one year deal if David Stearns personally visited me and convinced me that their positioning metrics would turn him into a non-terrible defender at second.

 

I'm not interested in any 2B's on a two (or more) year deal.

[Oxy]

I'd like either Brian Dozier or Ian Kinsler on a one year deal.

 

I could live with Daniel Murphy on a one year deal if David Stearns personally visited me and convinced me that their positioning metrics would turn him into a non-terrible defender at second.

 

I'm not interested in any 2B's on a two (or more) year deal.

 

I'd be fine with a not-old quality versatile 2B on a multi-year deal. Like Marwin Gonzalez. Not sure if anybody else fits the bill.

[Oxy]

With the depth of the FA pool and our lack of need for a long term solution, I fully expect us to sit this one out until March at the earliest, and then snag somebody for a cheap 1 year deal. Normally, I'd find this weak, but I really don't have a strong preference between LeMahieu, Murphy, Dozier, Kinsler, Gonzalez, Lowrie, Cabrera-- heck, even a Walker, Harrison, Flores, Descalso, or Dietrich would be serviceable and have some sort of upside.

 

I'm sure that one of these guys is going to have a great year next year, and if the front office is confident they know which one, by all means I hope they target them and offer them a decent contract. If not, wait it out.

[Eye Black]

With the depth of the FA pool and our lack of need for a long term solution, I fully expect us to sit this one out until March at the earliest, and then snag somebody for a cheap 1 year deal. Normally, I'd find this weak, but I really don't have a strong preference between LeMahieu, Murphy, Dozier, Kinsler, Gonzalez, Lowrie, Cabrera-- heck, even a Walker, Harrison, Flores, Descalso, or Dietrich would be serviceable and have some sort of upside.

 

I'm sure that one of these guys is going to have a great year next year, and if the front office is confident they know which one, by all means I hope they target them and offer them a decent contract. If not, wait it out.

I agree in that I also think the ultimate play will be to find the cheapest serviceable option. Daniel Descalso for instance could likely be signed on a one year deal for around $2 million. In the past two seasons he has played every position across the infield, he has played in the outfield, and he has even pitched. You aren’t likely going to want him hitting higher than 7th in the lineup, but he is a left-handed bat that will likely give better overall production than Saladino and much better on-base skills than Perez.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

With the depth of the FA pool and our lack of need for a long term solution, I fully expect us to sit this one out until March at the earliest, and then snag somebody for a cheap 1 year deal. Normally, I'd find this weak, but I really don't have a strong preference between LeMahieu, Murphy, Dozier, Kinsler, Gonzalez, Lowrie, Cabrera-- heck, even a Walker, Harrison, Flores, Descalso, or Dietrich would be serviceable and have some sort of upside.

 

I'm sure that one of these guys is going to have a great year next year, and if the front office is confident they know which one, by all means I hope they target them and offer them a decent contract. If not, wait it out.

I agree in that I also think the ultimate play will be to find the cheapest serviceable option. Daniel Descalso for instance could likely be signed on a one year deal for around $2 million. In the past two seasons he has played every position across the infield, he has played in the outfield, and he has even pitched. You aren’t likely going to want him hitting higher than 7th in the lineup, but he is a left-handed bat that will likely give better overall production than Saladino and much better on-base skills than Perez.

 

Aren't we past finding the "cheapest serviceable option" though? This team is a World Series contender right now, and with the improvements the other teams in the NL Central have made so far, it's shaping up to be a close race, and every game is important. I don't want to see another "warm body" signed just because they need a guy to throw out there at 2B. I mean, if we are going to throw a short-term deal at a guy like Descalso, we might as well just hand the job to Saladino and chalk up the 2B spot as an easy out at the back of the lineup. With so many solid bats available at the 2B spot, I think it would be prudent to grab one and maybe pay a little more for it.

[Eye Black]

I think it all depends on what their likely timeline and overall plan is for Keston Hiura. I am not sure spending between $20-$30 million on a multi-year deal for a second baseman makes sense if they believe Hiura can be a regular in the major leagues at some point this season. I guess the caveat I should have added is that if they stick with the serviceable option to fill 2B at the start of the season they really need to add some offense from the catcher position (and maybe even a solid outfield acquisition).

 

Don’t get me wrong, if they can sign Daniel Murphy or D.J. LeMahieu to a two year deal for a total commitment of less than $18 million, then great.

[Oxy]

 

Aren't we past finding the "cheapest serviceable option" though? This team is a World Series contender right now, and with the improvements the other teams in the NL Central have made so far, it's shaping up to be a close race, and every game is important. I don't want to see another "warm body" signed just because they need a guy to throw out there at 2B. I mean, if we are going to throw a short-term deal at a guy like Descalso, we might as well just hand the job to Saladino and chalk up the 2B spot as an easy out at the back of the lineup. With so many solid bats available at the 2B spot, I think it would be prudent to grab one and maybe pay a little more for it.

 

"Cheapest serviceable option" is kind of a negative way to put it. It's more that the guys we'd spend more on are not highly likely to significantly outperform the cheaper guy. That's where I'm at, anyway. As I said, if the FO sees it differently and targets a guy they are confident in, great--I hope they go sign him and he does even better than expected.

[Roderick]

 

Aren't we past finding the "cheapest serviceable option" though? ......

 

Not in this instance. If you save money on 2B, then you have that money for midseason acquistions or even picking up a new catcher or pitcher now.

 

And the position to save at is 2B, as Hiura is in the wings and will come up when he is conservatively can save us a year of control. Perez can play there if needed, especially if we pick up a lefty bat. And if Hiura isn't an improvement due to injury or performance, 2B isn't that hard to usually find a guy to trade for.