2B/3B Options

[pacopete4]

It’d be great to get Yuni and Schoop on the same team and see how it goes

[JosephC]

I kind of like Logan Forsythe. He was bad, bad, bad, bad this past season. His power numbers were also bad in 2017. But the OBP in the 3 year splits (.243/.333/.364/.697) is still OK. If last year was an outlier, the three year splits from 2015-2017 is a very respectable .261/.348/.414/.762. Defensive metrics pretty much have him as an average defender at 2B and he can also play some 3B, since he's a right-handed bat he probably could give Shaw some days off against lefties. Next year will be his age 32 season so he won't be too old.

 

The couple estimates I've seen have him on a 1 year deal for 1 or 2 million dollars. If he bounced back to 2015-2017 form he'd be a great addition. If he'd flop, well hopefully Hiura would be ready by June and then Forsythe could back him up and still probably get some playing time at third against lefties.

 

If I was confident that I could get him signed to a 1 year, 2 million (or less) contract, I'd lean towards declining arbitration on Schoop and just sign Forsythe as a stop-gap for Hiura.

[sveumrules]

Some MLBTR predictions for 2B/3B options...

 

Manny Machado, 13/390

Josh Donaldson, 1/20

Marwin Gonzalez, 4/36

Jed Lowrie, 3/30

Daniel Murphy, 2/20

Brian Dozier, 1/10

DJ LeMahieu, 2/18

Mike Moustakas, 2/16

 

Really kind of odd that Moose would turn down a 1/15 option from us if his market really is 2/16. Unless he just already knew we weren't going to exercise 1/15 from our end either.

 

They had Moose at 5/85 last year, so they really whiffed that one. There was the rumored 3/45 offer early in FA that was turned down, but of course Boras is going to deny that after the way things played out.

 

I expect another long winter for Moose.

[KCBrewerfan34]

So did the Brewers allow Moose to decline his part of the option for optics? We weren't going to pick it up were we?

[clancyphile]

Yuni is still active in the Mexican League!

Damn straight. I hit .406 this year. Almost won the battling title.

 

I've still got it, my friends. Show me some love.

 

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mlb/players/full/6218.png&w=350&h=254

 

I'm not opposed to a NRI with an invite to spring training - and an opt-out if he doesn't make the roster...

[clancyphile]

They had Moose at 5/85 last year, so they really whiffed that one. There was the rumored 3/45 offer early in FA that was turned down, but of course Boras is going to deny that after the way things played out.

 

I expect another long winter for Moose.

 

If that prediction is right, if I'm DS, I offer Moose 4 years and $35 million and make Erceg available for the right deal.

[TURBO]

I don't want to roll with 2 3B playing infield. We need a true 2B, and let Shaw play his actual position.

 

imo

[pacopete4]

What did Shaw do in his time at 2B to suggest he’s not a second basemen? I thought he fit well in that position.

[SRB]

I doubt they go shopping for a 2B when Hiura should be ready by at least 2020. Then you're stuck with an overpaid free agent for a few more years.

 

Part of the appeal of the Schoop trade ( ) was that he gives you a bridge year starting 2B.

[brewmann04]

I think its either Schoop or Shaw at second in 2019

[JohnBriggs12]

Some MLBTR predictions for 2B/3B options...

 

Manny Machado, 13/390

Josh Donaldson, 1/20

Marwin Gonzalez, 4/36

Jed Lowrie, 3/30

Daniel Murphy, 2/20

Brian Dozier, 1/10

DJ LeMahieu, 2/18

Mike Moustakas, 2/16

 

 

I have a hard time believing any team is gonna come close to $400 mil for Machado. Just don’t see it. Granted it’s over 13 years....just seems like too much for a low character individual.

 

A team would be insane to give any player 13 years at $30 million per year. Maybe 10 years with an option, but definitely not 13 or 14 years.

[SRB]

$390 million for Hanley Ramirez 2.0??? (With the caveat that Machado is actually worse than young Hanley was)

 

What is MLBTR smoking

[coolhandluke121]

Some MLBTR predictions for 2B/3B options...

 

Manny Machado, 13/390

Josh Donaldson, 1/20

Marwin Gonzalez, 4/36

Jed Lowrie, 3/30

Daniel Murphy, 2/20

Brian Dozier, 1/10

DJ LeMahieu, 2/18

Mike Moustakas, 2/16

 

Really kind of odd that Moose would turn down a 1/15 option from us if his market really is 2/16. Unless he just already knew we weren't going to exercise 1/15 from our end either.

 

They had Moose at 5/85 last year, so they really whiffed that one. There was the rumored 3/45 offer early in FA that was turned down, but of course Boras is going to deny that after the way things played out.

 

I expect another long winter for Moose.

 

No inside info here obviously, but I tend to believe the rumors that there was a decent offer early in free agency and they turned it down. There was some money early on in free agency, and a few teams could have used him. He eventually signed for a much worse deal after teams realized how much of a buyer's market it was and the money dried up. It's probably a fallacy to think his current deal was "market value" last off season. It's more likely that he rejected a market value deal and was left holding the bag. And as you said, Boras is very good at keeping things like that under wraps.

 

Also, lest we forget, the compensatory pick was a huge deterrent for any team interested in his services, and that's not there now. I have a very hard time believing a consistent ~110 OPS 3B with solid defense who just turned 30 will have to settle for 2/$16m.

[coolhandluke121]

Some MLBTR predictions for 2B/3B options...

 

Manny Machado, 13/390

Josh Donaldson, 1/20

Marwin Gonzalez, 4/36

Jed Lowrie, 3/30

Daniel Murphy, 2/20

Brian Dozier, 1/10

DJ LeMahieu, 2/18

Mike Moustakas, 2/16

 

Other than Moustakas, I would rather just take a chance on a Schoop/Hernan platoon for another year. Schoop has the reverse splits (60 OPS points better against RHP's for his career) and Hernan is good against LHP's.

 

Moustakas will get more as long as he doesn't overplay his hand. He doesn't have the qualifying offer hanging over his head and he's still a pretty good player. I think he gets about 3/$30m with an option.

[rcc]

$390 million for Hanley Ramirez 2.0??? (With the caveat that Machado is actually worse than young Hanley was)

 

What is MLBTR smoking

 

I couldn't agree more. Excellent example.

[sveumrules]

A worse hitter, sure.

 

The main difference between Manny & Hanley is their fielding ability, +73 defensive runs saved for Manny through age 25 compared to -32 for Hanley.

 

Agree that 13/390 is probably a little steep. Think he comes in closer to 10/300.

[Oxy]

What is the rule regarding QO's? I know a player has to be on the same team for the entire final year before they declare FA, and a player can only receive the QO once in his career--but does that include players like Moustakas who reject the QO but re-sign with the team that offered him the QO? I.E is it more that a team can only receive compensation once or a team can literally only offer the QO once?

[Eye Black]

What is the rule regarding QO's? I know a player has to be on the same team for the entire final year before they declare FA, and a player can only receive the QO once in his career--but does that include players like Moustakas who reject the QO but re-sign with the team that offered him the QO? I.E is it more that a team can only receive compensation once or a team can literally only offer the QO once?

A player is only eligible to be offered a Qualifying Offer one time in their career, regardless of whether they turned it down or accepted it.

[502 to Right]

I would kick the tires on a one year deal for Donaldson and keep Shaw at 2B for 2019.

[KeithStone53151]

I would kick the tires on a one year deal for Donaldson and keep Shaw at 2B for 2019.

 

That's risky, but it could be awesome.

[Vollbc74]

Lowrie at 2/18 would be a great get for this team. He starts at 2B this year and moves into the RH side of a 3B platoon when Huira is ready while still getting spot starts at 2B. This would allow you to move/non-tender Perez and use Dubon as your primary backup SS/2B. He has also played some 1B and can be a LH option there if we can find a taker for Thames.

[sveumrules]

Would love Lowrie at 2/18, but I think he gets a bigger payday than that.

 

Zobrist got 4/56 three years ago as a 35 year old, switch hitting, mostly second baseman after posting a 274/356/419 (119 wRC+) line & 7.7 WAR in the two seasons prior to free agency.

 

Lowrie is a 35 year old, switch hitting, mostly second baseman who has posted a 272/356/448 (122 wRC+) line & 8.5 WAR over the last two years.

[long ball]

I agree that Lowrie probably gets more than 2/18. MLBtr predicted 3/30, Kiley McDaniel of Fangraphs predicted 2/30, Jim Bowden of the Athletic 2/20.

 

I do think that Lowrie is a great fit for the Brewers though.

 

Primary 2b to start 2019. If/When Hiura arrives in 2019 Lowrie becomes either the super sub between 2b and 3b (maybe ss, if they were willing to play Schoop/Miller there maybe they'd be willing to play Lowrie there depending on who the SP is). The likelihood of Aguilar repeating 2018 are slim so him getting fewer PAs vs RHP is a good thing so Shaw can play first as well. Lowrie will help them push the boundaries of positionless defense on the infield.

 

With the number of options at 2b available the Brewers can be patient though. Unless they really like a guy (maybe it's Schoop??), I don't think we will see them be super aggressive in acquiring a 2b if Schoop is non-tendered.

[tmwiese55]

I agree that Lowrie probably gets more than 2/18. MLBtr predicted 3/30, Kiley McDaniel of Fangraphs predicted 2/30, Jim Bowden of the Athletic 2/20.

 

I do think that Lowrie is a great fit for the Brewers though.

 

Primary 2b to start 2019. If/When Hiura arrives in 2019 Lowrie becomes either the super sub between 2b and 3b (maybe ss, if they were willing to play Schoop/Miller there maybe they'd be willing to play Lowrie there depending on who the SP is). The likelihood of Aguilar repeating 2018 are slim so him getting fewer PAs vs RHP is a good thing so Shaw can play first as well. Lowrie will help them push the boundaries of positionless defense on the infield.

 

With the number of options at 2b available the Brewers can be patient though. Unless they really like a guy (maybe it's Schoop??), I don't think we will see them be super aggressive in acquiring a 2b if Schoop is non-tendered.

 

Generally agree with all of this post, including the 1B flex in future years with either him or Shaw. Even at that 3/30 I'd be tempted due to him being such a solid fit, 3rd year is tough though at that age.

 

What I wanted to add is that they should really be kicking down all these doors right now prior to deciding on Schoop in a few weeks. As in, if they know they have Lawrie or someone they like better in the bag then they can just non-tender Schoop and/or trade him for whatever they can get.

[long ball]

I'm sure there are conversations going on, but I'd be surprised if any of the notable options actually sign before the non-tender deadline.

 

In an ideal world they wrap up their preferred second baseman in the next two weeks and then non-tender or trade Schoop before the deadline. I just don't think it will actually play out that way.