2B/3B Options

[coolhandluke121]

It saddens me that people seem to be fine with a punk like Manny Machado on our roster.

 

How soon some forget his antics in the NLCS. He was public enemy number one around here, and now there are those willing to let that slide?

 

I don't care what he brings to the team on the positive side, the negative vibes he creates would be a total bummer, on the field and in the clubhouse...

 

The thought of him as a Brewer, my team, disgusts me.

 

While I agree, I think this is overstated in terms of putting people who would support the move on the defensive. It comes down to what you care about in the fan experience. I wouldn't trade last year's experience for one of the Yankees' titles. I'd rather love the team than the piece of hardware. Their resourcefulness and resilience and personality last year was much better than buying a title.

 

So I definitely wouldn't support it because loving and respecting the team is too steep of a price to pay for me. I actually think loving the team should be the reason you want them to win in the first place, and not the other way around. But that's a matter of personal taste.

[adambr2]

It saddens me that people seem to be fine with a punk like Manny Machado on our roster.

 

How soon some forget his antics in the NLCS. He was public enemy number one around here, and now there are those willing to let that slide?

 

I don't care what he brings to the team on the positive side, the negative vibes he creates would be a total bummer, on the field and in the clubhouse...

 

The thought of him as a Brewer, my team, disgusts me.

 

How do you know be would be a big clubhouse problem? How do you know the team wouldn't get him and Aguilar together before a signing and try to bury the hatchet?

 

Regardless, I'm able to separate my personal feelings about a player from my desire to see this team win. I don't particularly care for Ryan Braun, but I certainly root for him to do well.

 

Also, we hardly field a team of 25 angels every season. We know Braun's history. We acquired K-Rod numerous times despite him being a known abuser.

 

I'd probably draw the line at Addison Russell, but a guy being a dislikeable punk like Machado or Puig isn't enough for me to just totally cross him off the list.

[xisxisxis]

I'd probably draw the line at Addison Russell, but a guy being a dislikeable punk like Machado or Puig isn't enough for me to just totally cross him off the list.

 

If the Brewers need a hither then Addison Russell's your man...

[TURBO]

It saddens me that people seem to be fine with a punk like Manny Machado on our roster.

 

How soon some forget his antics in the NLCS. He was public enemy number one around here, and now there are those willing to let that slide?

 

I don't care what he brings to the team on the positive side, the negative vibes he creates would be a total bummer, on the field and in the clubhouse...

 

The thought of him as a Brewer, my team, disgusts me.

 

Why care about something that isn't going to happen?

 

true...

[TURBO]

It saddens me that people seem to be fine with a punk like Manny Machado on our roster.

 

How soon some forget his antics in the NLCS. He was public enemy number one around here, and now there are those willing to let that slide?

 

I don't care what he brings to the team on the positive side, the negative vibes he creates would be a total bummer, on the field and in the clubhouse...

 

The thought of him as a Brewer, my team, disgusts me.

 

How do you know be would be a big clubhouse problem? How do you know the team wouldn't get him and Aguilar together before a signing and try to bury the hatchet?

 

Regardless, I'm able to separate my personal feelings about a player from my desire to see this team win. I don't particularly care for Ryan Braun, but I certainly root for him to do well.

 

Also, we hardly field a team of 25 angels every season. We know Braun's history. We acquired K-Rod numerous times despite him being a known abuser.

 

I'd probably draw the line at Addison Russell, but a guy being a dislikeable punk like Machado or Puig isn't enough for me to just totally cross him off the list.

 

You'd have to get Arcia together with him too since he pulled an equally dirty move with him in the NLCS...So Jesus and Arcia might not be happy with him on the roster, and my bet is there would be many others as well. Team chemistry is tricky, Machado could come in and wreck it from day one, never allowing the team to gel and flow like it did last year. Not worth the risk, and rooting for him would be unpleasant as could be...

[jjfanec]

It saddens me that people seem to be fine with a punk like Manny Machado on our roster.

 

How soon some forget his antics in the NLCS. He was public enemy number one around here, and now there are those willing to let that slide?

 

I don't care what he brings to the team on the positive side, the negative vibes he creates would be a total bummer, on the field and in the clubhouse...

 

The thought of him as a Brewer, my team, disgusts me.

 

Are you okay with Ryan Braun being on the team?

[RollieTime]

It saddens me that people seem to be fine with a punk like Manny Machado on our roster.

 

How soon some forget his antics in the NLCS. He was public enemy number one around here, and now there are those willing to let that slide?

 

I don't care what he brings to the team on the positive side, the negative vibes he creates would be a total bummer, on the field and in the clubhouse...

 

The thought of him as a Brewer, my team, disgusts me.

 

Are you okay with Ryan Braun being on the team?

 

There’s a difference between Braun’s situation and a guy deliberately trying to injure other players. One of the main things also is that when a guy is on your team and does something, it’s easier to look past what they’ve done since they are a part of your organization. We are also comparing one single event from 2011 compared to a repeat offender from as recently as 3 months ago. I honestly can’t believe how much people still talk bad about Braun from that long ago. Let it go and enjoy the generational talent that we have in him. He is one of the best, if not the best, to ever wear the Brewers uniform. Players as talented as him don’t play for your organization very often.

[xisxisxis]

Let it go and enjoy the generational talent that we have in him. He is one of the best, if not the best, to ever wear the Brewers uniform. Players as talented as him don’t play for your organization very often.

 

Robin Yount 66.5 fWAR

Paul Molitor 56.0 fWAR (total = 67.6)

Ryan Braun 42.0 fWAR

Jeff Cirillo 26.0 fWAR (total = 33.0)

Brady Clark 4.6 fWAR (total = 4.2)

[jjfanec]

It saddens me that people seem to be fine with a punk like Manny Machado on our roster.

 

How soon some forget his antics in the NLCS. He was public enemy number one around here, and now there are those willing to let that slide?

 

I don't care what he brings to the team on the positive side, the negative vibes he creates would be a total bummer, on the field and in the clubhouse...

 

The thought of him as a Brewer, my team, disgusts me.

 

Are you okay with Ryan Braun being on the team?

 

There’s a difference between Braun’s situation and a guy deliberately trying to injure other players. One of the main things also is that when a guy is on your team and does something, it’s easier to look past what they’ve done since they are a part of your organization. We are also comparing one single event from 2011 compared to a repeat offender from as recently as 3 months ago. I honestly can’t believe how much people still talk bad about Braun from that long ago. Let it go and enjoy the generational talent that we have in him. He is one of the best, if not the best, to ever wear the Brewers uniform. Players as talented as him don’t play for your organization very often.

 

I am glad to have braun but he cheated and he threw another human being under the bus when he cmgot caught. It wasn't one event. It was getting caught (we have no idea how often he did it) and then his subsequent response. I am fine with braun being on the team. Cheer for him all the time. That doesn't change what he did. Just like if Machado was a brewer fans would probably forgive what he did if he became a good player for the Brewers. Fans have long memories when the guy is on another team but short memories when he is on their team.

[pacopete4]

Braun admitted guilt and went on his apology tour and hasn’t been anything but a great guy to the Brewers clubhouse and community since. You never see Braun take plays off when he’s out there. Machado is a repeated punk who doesn’t give you his full effort no matter what the situation is and is a total me-me-me guy. If chasing a WS doesn’t get you his best effort, what would? Just because two guys have errors in their pasts doesn’t make them equal today and it definitely doesn’t bode well for Machado right now as I believe he would already have his deal if well, he wasn’t Machado.

[jjfanec]

Didnt mean to hijack the thread. I can see most dont agree with me

 

Back to Machado I really do not want him because I dont want to spend the money at that position.

[brewmann04]

Manny a Punk don't need him here and i sure the brewers are not in the bidding

[RollieTime]

Braun admitted guilt and went on his apology tour and hasn’t been anything but a great guy to the Brewers clubhouse and community since. You never see Braun take plays off when he’s out there. Machado is a repeated punk who doesn’t give you his full effort no matter what the situation is and is a total me-me-me guy. If chasing a WS doesn’t get you his best effort, what would? Just because two guys have errors in their pasts doesn’t make them equal today and it definitely doesn’t bode well for Machado right now as I believe he would already have his deal if well, he wasn’t Machado.

 

Braun is exactly what you want a face of the franchise player to be. He is active in community events, provides numerous scholarships to different schools in Wisconsin, he is involved in the Make-A-Wish foundation, visits Children’s Hospitals, it goes on and on.

 

He is also a great clubhouse presence that guides the young guys and provides positive insight to help them better themselves on and off the field. People look to him to be the leader and he provides that veteran leadership while still being a productive player.

[adambr2]

Braun admitted guilt and went on his apology tour and hasn’t been anything but a great guy to the Brewers clubhouse and community since. You never see Braun take plays off when he’s out there. Machado is a repeated punk who doesn’t give you his full effort no matter what the situation is and is a total me-me-me guy. If chasing a WS doesn’t get you his best effort, what would? Just because two guys have errors in their pasts doesn’t make them equal today and it definitely doesn’t bode well for Machado right now as I believe he would already have his deal if well, he wasn’t Machado.

 

Braun is exactly what you want a face of the franchise player to be. He is active in community events, provides numerous scholarships to different schools in Wisconsin, he is involved in the Make-A-Wish foundation, visits Children’s Hospitals, it goes on and on.

 

He is also a great clubhouse presence that guides the young guys and provides positive insight to help them better themselves on and off the field. People look to him to be the leader and he provides that veteran leadership while still being a productive player.

 

He's done and said all the right things, but to say he is "exactly what you want a face of a franchise player to be" completely disregards the damage he did. Moving on from it doesn't mean its just undone. He will never be considered for the HOF because of it. It's great that he's involved in the community and says the right things but that doesn't erase the magnitude of his transgressions.

 

Plenty of players do and say the right things while also not having a black mark in their history on this level. It is not exactly what you would want a franchise player to be any more than Sammy Sosa should be just exactly what the Cubs wanted in a franchise player just because he kissed babies and said all the right things. It was the largest performance enhancing drug scandal in baseball history and he was one of the people at the center of it. Just because a lot of time has passed does not erase that fact from history.

[TURBO]

It saddens me that people seem to be fine with a punk like Manny Machado on our roster.

 

How soon some forget his antics in the NLCS. He was public enemy number one around here, and now there are those willing to let that slide?

 

I don't care what he brings to the team on the positive side, the negative vibes he creates would be a total bummer, on the field and in the clubhouse...

 

The thought of him as a Brewer, my team, disgusts me.

 

Are you okay with Ryan Braun being on the team?

 

 

Yup, and it's not the same situation, not even close...

[jjfanec]

It saddens me that people seem to be fine with a punk like Manny Machado on our roster.

 

How soon some forget his antics in the NLCS. He was public enemy number one around here, and now there are those willing to let that slide?

 

I don't care what he brings to the team on the positive side, the negative vibes he creates would be a total bummer, on the field and in the clubhouse...

 

The thought of him as a Brewer, my team, disgusts me.

 

Are you okay with Ryan Braun being on the team?

 

 

Yup, and it's not the same situation, not even close...

 

That is your opinion and i get it but just asked fans from other teams to say who their least favorite players in the MLB are and Braun's name often comes up. Just did a quick google search and he made most "hated" lists each time and when there where threads about it Bran's name constantly was one of the first thrown out and the one with almost the most people agreeing. He is becoming less disliked and that could be because of his apologies, the time since it happened but it may be as much because he isnt the star he was and isnt in the spotlight as much. You are completely justified in thinking Braun isnt on the same level as Manny but there are many who dont agree. Although I think after this last playoffs Manny probably is easily public enemy number 1.

[MNBrew]

Braun admitted guilt and went on his apology tour and hasn’t been anything but a great guy to the Brewers clubhouse and community since. You never see Braun take plays off when he’s out there. Machado is a repeated punk who doesn’t give you his full effort no matter what the situation is and is a total me-me-me guy. If chasing a WS doesn’t get you his best effort, what would? Just because two guys have errors in their pasts doesn’t make them equal today and it definitely doesn’t bode well for Machado right now as I believe he would already have his deal if well, he wasn’t Machado.

^^This, at least per the non-forgiving folks re: Braun (those who still cite him first and foremost as a cheater, for which he's now served his punishment and ever since which he's said & (more importantly) done the right things)...

 

On a VERY related note, it seems curious that we aren't really seeing/hearing any of the outrage about Grandal (the signing thread I don't think ones cites that "he's a cheat"), but he was also a Biogenesis customer, part of that scandal, and suspended 50 games by MLB.

 

The only thing -- and of course it was anything but small -- he didn't do that Braun did was publicly throw someone under the bus while fallibly trying to deny guilt.

 

I LOVE Machado's talent and production. I don't care for what I saw & have heard of his character. I'd welcome the addition of his talent to our roster if it were to actually happen, but I'm not thrilled about him as a person. Thankfully -- I think -- it would seem the odds are really slim that he'd actually sign with MIL, which in the end probably renders all this speculation and the accompanying character vs. production dilemma moot.

[jjfanec]

Braun admitted guilt and went on his apology tour and hasn’t been anything but a great guy to the Brewers clubhouse and community since. You never see Braun take plays off when he’s out there. Machado is a repeated punk who doesn’t give you his full effort no matter what the situation is and is a total me-me-me guy. If chasing a WS doesn’t get you his best effort, what would? Just because two guys have errors in their pasts doesn’t make them equal today and it definitely doesn’t bode well for Machado right now as I believe he would already have his deal if well, he wasn’t Machado.

^^This, at least per the non-forgiving folks re: Braun (those who still cite him first and foremost as a cheater, for which he's now served his punishment and ever since which he's said & (more importantly) done the right things)...

 

On a VERY related note, it seems curious that we aren't really seeing/hearing any of the outrage about Grandal (the signing thread I don't think ones cites that "he's a cheat"), but he was also a Biogenesis customer, part of that scandal, and suspended 50 games by MLB.

 

The only thing -- and of course it was anything but small -- he didn't do that Braun did was publicly throw someone under the bus while fallibly trying to deny guilt.

 

I LOVE Machado's talent and production. I don't care for what I saw & have heard of his character. I'd welcome the addition of his talent to our roster if it were to actually happen, but I'm not thrilled about him as a person. Thankfully -- I think -- it would seem the odds are really slim that he'd actually sign with MIL, which in the end probably renders all this speculation and the accompanying character vs. production dilemma moot.

 

I guess I am probably one of the unforgiving people. I still really like Braun just hard for him to be my favorite Brewer anymore. It was that he cheated but it was much more how he responded and I think that is why people outside of Milwaukee dont like him. I am sure Braun wishes he could do a lot over and he has done the right things since the suspension but that doesnt mean his public image with change a ton. All that said I do get why fans of other teams would not forgive him. They have no reason to, they dont see him in the clubhouse, and what he did was pretty bad

[MNBrew]

That is your opinion and i get it but just asked fans from other teams to say who their least favorite players in the MLB are and Braun's name often comes up. Just did a quick google search and he made most "hated" lists each time and when there where threads about it Bran's name constantly was one of the first thrown out and the one with almost the most people agreeing. He is becoming less disliked and that could be because of his apologies, the time since it happened but it may be as much because he isnt the star he was and isnt in the spotlight as much. You are completely justified in thinking Braun isnt on the same level as Manny but there are many who dont agree. Although I think after this last playoffs Manny probably is easily public enemy number 1.

(I didn't see your reply just above until after I finished typing this, which corroborates your point...)

 

I sat through a Brewers game in Pittsburgh in 2017 (the one where Vogt got crashed into at the plate). Guys right in front of me were constantly (and very annoying) on Braun every time he was up. What were they yelling (besides just profane names)? "STEROIDS." They were acting pretty idiotic & self-righteous, to be honest, but for the sake of this discussion, that's not the point.

 

The point is, I'd guess this is pretty representative of many fans in many cities who boo/heckle/etc. Braun: They very possibly...

 

- paid attention to the headlines in only a cursory way;

- don't know or remember that steroids were never the actual issue;

- don't care so much what he did but that they feel entitled to vilify him for it;

- don't pay enough attention to know or care that he's "done his time" with the biggest suspension at the time for PEDs, or everything he's done positively both in atonement and otherwise since then, only feeling that the headlines for which he rightly earned horrible repute give them endless license to heckle/swear/etc. relentlessly.

[SRB]

I am glad to have braun but he cheated and he threw another human being under the bus when he cmgot caught.

 

Not to derail the thread further, but he never threw anybody under the bus. That guy created legitimate chain-of-custody issues which is why Braun successfully fought the test on procedural grounds.

[clancyphile]

I am glad to have braun but he cheated and he threw another human being under the bus when he cmgot caught.

 

Not to derail the thread further, but he never threw anybody under the bus. That guy created legitimate chain-of-custody issues which is why Braun successfully fought the test on procedural grounds.

 

Too bad MLB decided to fire the arbitrator who ruled correctly on that matter - even as they changed the procedures in question.

[jjfanec]

I am glad to have braun but he cheated and he threw another human being under the bus when he cmgot caught.

 

Not to derail the thread further, but he never threw anybody under the bus. That guy created legitimate chain-of-custody issues which is why Braun successfully fought the test on procedural grounds.

 

Well since there is no news at 2b I guess we can blame Stearns for this thread going sideways.

 

Here is what people point to when saying he threw the guy under the bus. Although you are right and I shouldn't use the phrase bc it is misleading. Maybe this report has been proven completely false

 

https://www.si.com/si-wire/2013/08/19/ryan-braun-discredit-urine-collector

[Eye Black]

***Logs into BrewerFan.net after 24-hour hiatus.***

 

 

Me (Internal Dialogue): Oh cool, the 2B/3B Options thread is heating up. I must have missed some juicy Brewers related rumors and speculation. Can’t wait to see what my BF.net friends have to say...

 

 

Me (Reading): ...Machado... Machado... Machado... Addison Russell... Machado... Braun... Braun.... STEROIDS... Chain-of-Custody...

 

 

Me:

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

***Logs into BrewerFan.net after 24-hour hiatus.***

 

 

Me (Internal Dialogue): Oh cool, the 2B/3B Options thread is heating up. I must have missed some juicy Brewers related rumors and speculation. Can’t wait to see what my BF.net friends have to say...

 

 

Me (Reading): ...Machado... Machado... Machado... Addison Russell... Machado... Braun... Braun.... STEROIDS... Chain-of-Custody...

 

 

Me:

 

The only cure is some juicy Derek Dietrich rumors ...

[Eye Black]

The only cure is some juicy Derek Dietrich rumors ...