2B/3B Options

[Roderick]

 

And yes, Moustakas is a professional at-bat if you limit him against lefties.

 

You aren't going to sign Moose for the $s he will sign for to platoon him.

[Eye Black]

Cabrera is a horrid defender at 2B, while Flores can be described as simply bad. It seems odd to me to rule out Dietrich because of his defense, while advocating for two guys that are also poor in that area.

 

I am under the assumption that when Passan tweeted that the Brewers were in deep negotiations on a player that could upgrade 2B/3B, he was talking about Lowrie. I think the Mets upped their offer at the last minute, and that's the one he took. We've seen a run on 2B signings within the last week, which leaves the Brewers with much fewer options now. Gonzalez is still there if they want an all-around solid player. Harrison and Forsythe if they want solid fielders who may not provide a ton of offensive value. Dietrich, Cabrera, Neil Walker or Flores if they want a decent bat who would provide nothing more than a warm body on defense, or an old fart like Brandon Phillips looking to play out the string. Signing Phillips would remind me of the unheralded 1991 signing of Willie Randolph.

 

Of course, there is always the "Sign Moose and play Shaw at 2B" option. I kinda think that's what they'll go with at this point. That lineup will mash righties, but lefties will make it look silly.

I am so down for the reincarnation of 36-year old Willie Randolph. Give me this, please!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Cabrera is a horrid defender at 2B, while Flores can be described as simply bad. It seems odd to me to rule out Dietrich because of his defense, while advocating for two guys that are also poor in that area.

 

I am under the assumption that when Passan tweeted that the Brewers were in deep negotiations on a player that could upgrade 2B/3B, he was talking about Lowrie. I think the Mets upped their offer at the last minute, and that's the one he took. We've seen a run on 2B signings within the last week, which leaves the Brewers with much fewer options now. Gonzalez is still there if they want an all-around solid player. Harrison and Forsythe if they want solid fielders who may not provide a ton of offensive value. Dietrich, Cabrera, Neil Walker or Flores if they want a decent bat who would provide nothing more than a warm body on defense, or an old fart like Brandon Phillips looking to play out the string. Signing Phillips would remind me of the unheralded 1991 signing of Willie Randolph.

 

Of course, there is always the "Sign Moose and play Shaw at 2B" option. I kinda think that's what they'll go with at this point. That lineup will mash righties, but lefties will make it look silly.

I am so down for the reincarnation of 36-year old Willie Randolph. Give me this, please!

 

I remember being really bummed when they didn't resign him for 1992. He was one of the few things that made watching that 1991 palatable. A lot of fans thought his strong start to the season was a fluke, but he just kept on hitting all the way through.

 

Gumby, at age 39, split time at 2B with 33-year-old Scotty Fletcher in 1992, putting up underwhelming results.

[FVBrewerFan]

C- Grandall & Pina

1B- Aguilar (w/Walker, Shaw (Braun)

2B- Shaw/Walker/Perez

3B- Moustakas/Shaw/Perez/Walker

SS- Arica/Perez (Walker emergency)

LF- Braun/Gamel/Perez

CF- Cain/Yelich/Perez

RF- Yelich/Gamel/Perez

 

And yes, Moustakas is a professional at-bat if you limit him against lefties.

 

How do you limit him against LH? Shaw is even worse vs LH. All you have left at 2B/3B is Perez and Walker vs LHP which is pretty horrible.

[pacopete4]

There are not that many lefties that we face on a regular basis. The Cubs are about it. And it's not a straight platoon, it is limiting. Coupled with his defense and power, it would only make us a better team than we are currently.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

There are not that many lefties that we face on a regular basis. The Cubs are about it. And it's not a straight platoon, it is limiting. Coupled with his defense and power, it would only make us a better team than we are currently.

 

I agree with you. I like Moose coming back more than anything left on the 2B/3B market. That lineup would be murder on righties, but you'd need to hope that Perez/Braun/Aguilar can pick up the slack against tough lefties. It would also let them ease Hiura into the lineup, instead of tossing him in full time if/when he eventually comes up.

[pacopete4]

There are not that many lefties that we face on a regular basis. The Cubs are about it. And it's not a straight platoon, it is limiting. Coupled with his defense and power, it would only make us a better team than we are currently.

 

I agree with you. I like Moose coming back more than anything left on the 2B/3B market. That lineup would be murder on righties, but you'd need to hope that Perez/Braun/Aguilar can pick up the slack against tough lefties. It would also let them ease Hiura into the lineup, instead of tossing him in full time if/when he eventually comes up.

 

Agreed with this. Moustakas isn't a perfect player, none of them are. But if we have enough depth at those spots, it should pay dividends throughout 162 games.

[coolhandluke121]

Yeah, I'd be fine with Moustakas. I don't think you should prioritize how you perform against LHP's to the point where you want a good RHB option at every position. There's just not enough opposing LHP's to waste precious roster spots like that. I also think there was somewhat of a statistical aberration in their performance against LHP's last year. Didn't Braun, Santana, Pina, and Arcia all slump against them at the same time last year? I wouldn't worry too much about it. Braun, Aguilar, Arcia, Perez, Cain, Yelich, and Pina should be an above average lineup against LHP's, even with Shaw or Moustakas.

 

Would be fine with a strict Corenan Sperezburg platoon as well. Not real interested in Walker.

[TURBO]

To be honest, I'd like to have rolled with Schoop and see what he had to offer for a full season. I think we gave up on him too quickly.

[pacopete4]

To be honest, I'd like to have rolled with Schoop and see what he had to offer for a full season. I think we gave up on him too quickly.

 

I don't think Grandal happens if they keep him though. So I would rather solidify the catcher position and try to find a diamond in the rough at 2B if it is me on the call.

[mlloyd10]

Just say no to Walker

[502 to Right]

No way was Schoop worth a $10 million roll of the dice.

[TURBO]

Just say no to Walker

 

agreed.

 

been there done that.

 

he is now older, and even less effective.

[TURBO]

No way was Schoop worth a $10 million roll of the dice.

 

For a one season commitment?

 

I disagree.

[yoshii8]

Just say no to Walker

 

agreed.

 

been there done that.

 

he is now older, and even less effective.

 

 

He is older but was super productive in 2017 with the Brewers (.843 OPS). He's a really good hitter, and looking at his stats and reading about his year, I don't think he's totally washed up yet.

[KeithStone53151]

Yeah, I'd be fine with Moustakas. I don't think you should prioritize how you perform against LHP's to the point where you want a good RHB option at every position. There's just not enough opposing LHP's to waste precious roster spots like that. I also think there was somewhat of a statistical aberration in their performance against LHP's last year. Didn't Braun, Santana, Pina, and Arcia all slump against them at the same time last year? I wouldn't worry too much about it. Braun, Aguilar, Arcia, Perez, Cain, Yelich, and Pina should be an above average lineup against LHP's, even with Shaw or Moustakas.

 

Would be fine with a strict Corenan Sperezburg platoon as well. Not real interested in Walker.

 

I generally agree with you on overutilizing platoons/splits being a bad strategy over the course of a season. SP generally aren't as tough on same handed hitters as relief pithcers. And you don't want to hide Shaw from all lefties or Perez from all righties...as they'll have to see them at least some of the time when relief pitchers come in. They only get worse in those situations if you try to hide them.

 

With our current roster, Yelich/Cain/Braun/Aguilar/Shaw/Grandal/Arcia should be playing almost every day. The occasional off days for Braun/Aguilar/Shaw/Grandal should generally come against same handed SP, but I wouldn't at all call it a platoon and look at as simply planning the occasional offday. Shaw and Grandal should see plenty of LHP, Braun and Aguilar will obviously see plenty of RHP.

[tigerbrew]

At 33, Walker is not that old. Wouldn't mind giving Walker a one year "spring training invite" deal like what we gave Yovani last year, if his performance is not good we can cut him after spring training. If he performs great, we could have a 2B stopgap until Hiura is called up.

[yoshii8]

I can't imagine Walker not getting a major league contract. He plays 2b, 3b and 1b and besides last season has been a consistently good player.

[tmwiese55]

and after his brutal start last year his 2nd half was good. 248/346/788. He's not the worst option if nothing better comes up. Too bad he has a fairly stark split and is worse as a RH

[bill hAll Star]

Yeah, I'd be fine with Moustakas. I don't think you should prioritize how you perform against LHP's to the point where you want a good RHB option at every position. There's just not enough opposing LHP's to waste precious roster spots like that. I also think there was somewhat of a statistical aberration in their performance against LHP's last year. Didn't Braun, Santana, Pina, and Arcia all slump against them at the same time last year? I wouldn't worry too much about it. Braun, Aguilar, Arcia, Perez, Cain, Yelich, and Pina should be an above average lineup against LHP's, even with Shaw or Moustakas.

 

Would be fine with a strict Corenan Sperezburg platoon as well. Not real interested in Walker.

 

I generally agree with you on overutilizing platoons/splits being a bad strategy over the course of a season. SP generally aren't as tough on same handed hitters as relief pithcers. And you don't want to hide Shaw from all lefties or Perez from all righties...as they'll have to see them at least some of the time when relief pitchers come in. They only get worse in those situations if you try to hide them.

 

With our current roster, Yelich/Cain/Braun/Aguilar/Shaw/Grandal/Arcia should be playing almost every day. The occasional off days for Braun/Aguilar/Shaw/Grandal should generally come against same handed SP, but I wouldn't at all call it a platoon and look at as simply planning the occasional offday. Shaw and Grandal should see plenty of LHP, Braun and Aguilar will obviously see plenty of RHP.

 

On top of all of this, when you know you have a stretch of 5 lefty starting pitchers in 7 days coming up, somebody can and will exaggerate an injury and Tyler Saladino will be on a flight from San Antonio to join the team to start against 3 or 4 of them or at least be a bat off the bench.

[FVBrewerFan]

Shaw hit .599 vs LHP last year, he should not be in the lineup vs LHP. Want to give him some rope in April/May to see if he can improve? I have no problem with that. But I think an option of even an avg RH bat in his place would be a big improvement.

 

I also don't buy into "they don't face LH starters very often." I don't know where/how to find the info but I would guess they faced LH starter at least 40 games last year. That's just my guess of course, could be wrong.

 

Changed my mind on Moose after looking a the numbers. .721/ .763 the past two years vs LHP, that's even higher than what I thought. So I would be fine with him at 3B and Perez at 2B vs LHP. Still not ideal, but hey, not going to have All Stars at every position. Then Moose could still play vs RHP at 3B or 1B.

[KeithStone53151]

Shaw hit .599 vs LHP last year, he should not be in the lineup vs LHP. Want to give him some rope in April/May to see if he can improve? I have no problem with that. But I think an option of even an avg RH bat in his place would be a big improvement.

 

I also don't buy into "they don't face LH starters very often." I don't know where/how to find the info but I would guess they faced LH starter at least 40 games last year. That's just my guess of course, could be wrong.

 

Changed my mind on Moose after looking a the numbers. .721/ .763 the past two years vs LHP, that's even higher than what I thought. So I would be fine with him at 3B and Perez at 2B vs LHP. Still not ideal, but hey, not going to have All Stars at every position. Then Moose could still play vs RHP at 3B or 1B.

 

The problem with platooning Shaw is, what do you do when the other team brings in a LH relief pitcher? Are you going to pinch hit him every time? If he rarely sees LHP for the first 2 months of the season, do you think he'll still be a 600 OPS guy against LHP? Probably far worse, and you'll basically be forced to PH for him or take a virtually guaranteed out.

 

September and October baseball, yes absolutely try to protect him against LHP. In september you have basically unlimited PH options. In October, the games matter more and each at bat is critical. I think Shaw should be starting 5-6 days a week and against lefties...at least for the first few months of the season.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I also don't buy into "they don't face LH starters very often." I don't know where/how to find the info but I would guess they faced LH starter at least 40 games last year. That's just my guess of course, could be wrong.

 

Particularly after last year's trade deadline and down the stretch, it seemed like the Brewers were facing tons of lefty starters. In the NLCS the only righty they faced was Buehler (Ryu twice, Hill, Kershaw twice). The Cubs seemingly shuffle all their lefty starters against the Brewers, too. This happened in the 2nd half because their key RH bats that were supposed to take advantage of lefties struggled.

 

Overall, they'll face more righty starters than lefties over the regular season, but I think it should remain a priority to find a RH hitter who can mash lefty pitching and has the ability to play a few IF positions before Opening Day - assuming Hiura isn't breaking camp with the club.

[monkeyman343434]

In 2017 Shaw had a .743 OPS in 146 PAs vs LHP, so why would you do a platoon with him in 2019? You have to let him be a full time player. He also has a career .713 OPS vs LHP in 479 PAs.

[FVBrewerFan]

Shaw hit .599 vs LHP last year, he should not be in the lineup vs LHP. Want to give him some rope in April/May to see if he can improve? I have no problem with that. But I think an option of even an avg RH bat in his place would be a big improvement.

 

I also don't buy into "they don't face LH starters very often." I don't know where/how to find the info but I would guess they faced LH starter at least 40 games last year. That's just my guess of course, could be wrong.

 

Changed my mind on Moose after looking a the numbers. .721/ .763 the past two years vs LHP, that's even higher than what I thought. So I would be fine with him at 3B and Perez at 2B vs LHP. Still not ideal, but hey, not going to have All Stars at every position. Then Moose could still play vs RHP at 3B or 1B.

 

The problem with platooning Shaw is, what do you do when the other team brings in a LH relief pitcher? Are you going to pinch hit him every time? If he rarely sees LHP for the first 2 months of the season, do you think he'll still be a 600 OPS guy against LHP? Probably far worse, and you'll basically be forced to PH for him or take a virtually guaranteed out.

 

September and October baseball, yes absolutely try to protect him against LHP. In september you have basically unlimited PH options. In October, the games matter more and each at bat is critical. I think Shaw should be starting 5-6 days a week and against lefties...at least for the first few months of the season.

 

As I said, if you want to give him some rope in April and May, fine. I could live with giving him a chance vs LHP for a couple months. If he's struggling again, yea I PH for him vs LHP. Depends on the game situation though.