2B/3B Options

[mlloyd10]

Would anyone be surprised if we signed Asdrúbal Cabrera to a cheap 1yr 5 mil deal

 

Yes I would. Stearns values defense, and Cabrera is bad wherever you put him. Shaw is a better option defensively at 2B.

 

Yeah, but if we move Shaw to 2nd, they most likely will resign Moose and he will cost more than $5 mil

[Outlander]

Now that Lowrie and Dozier are off the board, I'm all aboard the Marwin Gonzalez train. He just seems like the perfect fit on this roster. Even if we bring up Hiura in June, we will still be able to get him tons of AB's.

 

I would bet that Counsell is advocating for him, he is a weapon that could put our lineup over the top.

If the Brewers can't afford LeMahieu I doubt they can afford Gonzalez.

[NievesNoNO]

I'm really interested to see what happens here. Stearns has a pretty fair (short) history of getting pretty significant upgrades. I know it won't take much to actually have an upgrade over last season but I dont see him acquiring somebody that would qualify as a potential upgrade. I feel like if he's going to get somebody it'll be worth the effort.

 

He's already acquired significant upgrade from last year's production at 2B in the form of Spangenberg even if he just lets him play everyday and against lefties at that position. It's not a glitzy acquisition, but then again Chacin wasn't last offseason either.

 

.......................

.

 

I agree with all that. I guess I'm referring to some reports that claim the Brewers are still in pursuit of an infield upgrade. I don't see Harrison, Panik, or some of the other names being referenced as sure fire upgrades to what we already have. I think, despite the supposed financial constraints, it'll be a clear upgrade like Marwin, LeMahieu, or Moose. Maybe even a trade for somebody.

[long ball]

I’d be fine with what they have (assuming Hiura is an early call up).

 

What if Hiura struggles to adjust to MLB hitting? What if he doesn't hit well enough in AAA in April/May to justify a call-up?

 

We're still pinning a LOT of hopes on a rookie that may not be ready to be thrust into the middle of a playoff race.

 

Ya I just don’t agree.

 

It always made the most sense to try to spend on upgrading catcher because there isn’t a highly regarded prospect or young player at the position, but due to positional scarcity second base looked like the easier position to upgrade because of all the free agent options.

 

Now that they were able to upgrade at catcher we can reevaluate our thinking on second base. The brewers have followed a similar plan for Hader and Burnes in recent years (Not exactly apples to apples comparison, but you get the idea of how they’ve treated top prospects in recent seasons).

 

The brewers don’t even need Hiura to come up and be even a league average hitter. They can probably live with a ~80 wrc+ from him.

 

The brewers may still sign someone, but it’s probably someone with a history of positional versatility. I would bet if they do sign someone it’s gling to be for less than $5mm for one year since they spent big on a catcher.

[adambr2]

Spangerberg has a lower career OPS vs. RHP than Brad Miller, who didn't work out here and is still looking for work. I'm not sure he's a big upgrade even as a platoon guy.

 

Now maybe we see something and maybe he'll be more, it could happen. But personally I'd rather not count on him as more than a bench guy.

[yoshii8]

I really hope we aren't relying on Cory Spangenberg to be our answer at 2b. With LaMahieu joining the Yankees, I really hope Marwin is our answer, if not him than I'm ok with Neil Walker.

 

Either way, I believe that DS will come up with a solution.

[82brewcrew82]

Ya I just don’t agree.

 

It always made the most sense to try to spend on upgrading catcher because there isn’t a highly regarded prospect or young player at the position, but due to positional scarcity second base looked like the easier position to upgrade because of all the free agent options.

 

Now that they were able to upgrade at catcher we can reevaluate our thinking on second base. The brewers have followed a similar plan for Hader and Burnes in recent years (Not exactly apples to apples comparison, but you get the idea of how they’ve treated top prospects in recent seasons).

 

The brewers don’t even need Hiura to come up and be even a league average hitter. They can probably live with a ~80 wrc+ from him.

 

The brewers may still sign someone, but it’s probably someone with a history of positional versatility. I would bet if they do sign someone it’s gling to be for less than $5mm for one year since they spent big on a catcher.

This is the best post I've seen on this yet. There is just no reason to spend money on a temporary piece. Even if Hiura struggles, second just isn't that difficult to upgrade in season should they need to.

[Fear The Chorizo]

With the recent signing of Grandal, the current Brewers' 40 man is just about filled up - gotta think any more FA or trade additions that would be destined for the Opening Day 25 man will need to have a corresponding trade to open up space on the roster. There are some names on the 40 man that aren't necessarily dead weight, but they'd hurt to lose for nothing in return. Keep in mind guys like Ray are not on the 40 man, so a trade including Ray doesn't create a spot on the roster for the acquired player.

 

They've got 4 guys on the 40 man who could play 2nd, 5 if you count Shaw and 6 if you include Arcia...That's without Hiura currently being on that roster. I think the 2019 2B answer has a good likelihood of being a bunch of guys plugged into situations where they have favorable matchups as the season wears on.

 

Marwin or Harrison do make alot of sense, too - but the money has to be right.

[reillymcshane]

Would anyone be surprised if we signed Asdrúbal Cabrera to a cheap 1yr 5 mil deal

Not at all. I think Stearns is looking for value. Cabrera isn't a good defensive player, but his bat plays well at 2B.

 

I think Stearns will get the guy that provides the most value. Guessing that Gonzalez is too expensive, Cabrera and Harrison are the two main names left. Derek Dietrich is another option.

 

If money is really tight, we could go deeper into the bargain bin as well - Walker, Solarte, Forsythe.

 

My guess at this time is Harrison, but that's just a guess. I think he'll get 3-5M.

[tmwiese55]

I'd guess Harrison on a cheap one year deal too.

 

However, maybe that we're seeing all these guys taking 2/20ish deals then Marwin isn't seeing the Zobrist type contract he hoped and is more affordable than previously though. Granted he's younger and better on D but he did hit badly last year. Maybe he'd take a 1 year flyer to prove himself and try again next year.

[PeaveyFury]

This is the best post I've seen on this yet. There is just no reason to spend money on a temporary piece. Even if Hiura struggles, second just isn't that difficult to upgrade in season should they need to.

 

But why put yourself into a position to give up prospect capital in that situation when there are a number of currently available options that only cost money? Can't a short-term 2B FA signing be useful to the team as a bench bat if Hiura does work out?

[A Swing and A Drive]

I think Marwin will be out of our price range, personally.

[Humans Need Water]

I think Cory/Perez should be the default setting. I think they do add one of Marwin, Harrison, Cabrera. All of them have pretty similar numbers against both lefties and righties so you don't have to play matchups with them like you do Cory/Perez. Marwin would get a multi-year no doubt but Harrison/Cabrera are 1yr and sub-5M most likely. Even if Marwin gets 9M annually by us trading Perez and Thames that clears 8.7M for 2019 so still allows for a rotation addition and Perez is easily expendable if Marwin is here plus Dubon is in the wings too. Both are big upgrades over him. Grandal off books in 2020, Braun off 2021....this is why I don't believe Marwin is out of the price range. Lot of moving pieces but it's feasible

[Bnowell4evr]

I'm intrigued by Wilmer Flores. He's young, doesn't strike out much, versatile, crushes lefties and won't cost much.

 

He would also fit nicely as Shaws platoon partner if Keston tears the cover off the ball.

[MNBrew]

I’d be fine with what they have (assuming Hiura is an early call up).

 

What if Hiura struggles to adjust to MLB hitting? What if he doesn't hit well enough in AAA in April/May to justify a call-up?

 

We're still pinning a LOT of hopes on a rookie that may not be ready to be thrust into the middle of a playoff race.

 

Ya I just don’t agree.

 

It always made the most sense to try to spend on upgrading catcher because there isn’t a highly regarded prospect or young player at the position, but due to positional scarcity second base looked like the easier position to upgrade because of all the free agent options.

 

Now that they were able to upgrade at catcher we can reevaluate our thinking on second base. The brewers have followed a similar plan for Hader and Burnes in recent years (Not exactly apples to apples comparison, but you get the idea of how they’ve treated top prospects in recent seasons).

 

The brewers don’t even need Hiura to come up and be even a league average hitter. They can probably live with a ~80 wrc+ from him.

 

The brewers may still sign someone, but it’s probably someone with a history of positional versatility. I would bet if they do sign someone it’s gling to be for less than $5mm for one year since they spent big on a catcher.

If Hiura is a potentially elite hitter, you do what's best for his long-term development with NO pressure to perform at the MLB level. You don't throw him into a pennant race or prolonged MLB stint if it stands to be detrimental.

 

In other words, you don't count on him for 2019 at all. If he forces himself into the picture, then that's a great position for the Brewers to be in.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm intrigued by Wilmer Flores. He's young, doesn't strike out much, versatile, crushes lefties and won't cost much.

 

He would also fit nicely as Shaws platoon partner if Keston tears the cover off the ball.

 

Eh, he doesn't crush lefties. At least he didn't in 2018. He posted just a .610 OPS against LHP last year. Perez on the other hand is coming off his best year facing LHP, hitting .277/.304/.479 in 125 PA last year against lefties.

 

I just don't get the "anybody but Perez" thinking. Perez is a good heads up player. He might hit better playing primarily one position but he's a respectable .263 hitter with a .404 slugging percentage in a Brewer uniform. With the potential impact guys off the market, I'm fine with Perez with occasional starts by Spangenberg as the alternative until Hiura.

[AKCheesehead]

Wholeheartedly agreed, Briggs. It likely gives the most value per dollar.

[Humans Need Water]

What if Hiura struggles to adjust to MLB hitting? What if he doesn't hit well enough in AAA in April/May to justify a call-up?

 

We're still pinning a LOT of hopes on a rookie that may not be ready to be thrust into the middle of a playoff race.

 

Ya I just don’t agree.

 

It always made the most sense to try to spend on upgrading catcher because there isn’t a highly regarded prospect or young player at the position, but due to positional scarcity second base looked like the easier position to upgrade because of all the free agent options.

 

Now that they were able to upgrade at catcher we can reevaluate our thinking on second base. The brewers have followed a similar plan for Hader and Burnes in recent years (Not exactly apples to apples comparison, but you get the idea of how they’ve treated top prospects in recent seasons).

 

The brewers don’t even need Hiura to come up and be even a league average hitter. They can probably live with a ~80 wrc+ from him.

 

The brewers may still sign someone, but it’s probably someone with a history of positional versatility. I would bet if they do sign someone it’s gling to be for less than $5mm for one year since they spent big on a catcher.

If Hiura is a potentially elite hitter, you do what's best for his long-term development with NO pressure to perform at the MLB level. You don't throw him into a pennant race or prolonged MLB stint if it stands to be detrimental.

 

In other words, you don't count on him for 2019 at all. If he forces himself into the picture, then that's a great position for the Brewers to be in.

*No pressure* doesn't exist when you're on a WS caliber team and this team is built to for that 2019-2021. Every player is different intellectually, emotionally, psychologically, etc. You don't treat them all in the same manner. Hiura is an intelligent and poised individual with a very professional approach. No stage is too big for him.

 

And Hiura being called up won't have anything to do with his slash line. It'll be how good are his PAs - how well and consistent is his contact - how is he performing in the field.

[tmwiese55]

I'm intrigued by Wilmer Flores. He's young, doesn't strike out much, versatile, crushes lefties and won't cost much.

 

He would also fit nicely as Shaws platoon partner if Keston tears the cover off the ball.

 

Eh, he doesn't crush lefties. At least he didn't in 2018. He posted just a .610 OPS against LHP last year. Perez on the other hand is coming off his best year facing LHP, hitting .277/.304/.479 in 125 PA last year against lefties.

 

I just don't get the "anybody but Perez" thinking. Perez is a good heads up player. He might hit better playing primarily one position but he's a respectable .263 hitter with a .404 slugging percentage in a Brewer uniform. With the potential impact guys off the market, I'm fine with Perez with occasional starts by Spangenberg as the alternative until Hiura.

 

I wouldn't say I'm in the any but but Perez camp. I generally like him as the 25th man, I like that he can put a charge in a ball at anytime. However, going into the year with him needing to play as large of a role as currently pegged seems much to me. I'd really like someone less K prone and who can take a walk. That said, most of these options don't upgrade all that much but adding one more guy slightly above him might put him more in the role he should be in. And would allow for more platoon work with Shaw and more insurance if Jesus falters to play Shaw at 1B and if someone gets hurt to not need Perez everyday. After all these guys got signed though IDK. Maybe Walker is the best they can do if they move Thames, it would create more positional flex.

[brewmann04]

I sticking to my belief that the crew will be going with a platoon at 2nd base.

[Devinep]

Josh Harrison would be like adding another Hernan Perez. There’s already quantity at 2B-just go get a quality 2B. Someone who’d actually be an upgrade to the current roster (ie: not Harrison)

[pacopete4]

If you go with a platoon and they stink, it will put a lot more pressure on Stearns and Co to rush Hiura. If they find a decent one year guy, it will allow that process to play itself out on its own. Either Hiura takes and forces his way up or he spends a year in AAA getting better. Very risky in more ways than one with going with just Perez/Cory.

[MNBrew]

If Hiura is a potentially elite hitter, you do what's best for his long-term development with NO pressure to perform at the MLB level. You don't throw him into a pennant race or prolonged MLB stint if it stands to be detrimental.

 

In other words, you don't count on him for 2019 at all. If he forces himself into the picture, then that's a great position for the Brewers to be in.

*No pressure* doesn't exist when you're on a WS caliber team and this team is built to for that 2019-2021. Every player is different intellectually, emotionally, psychologically, etc. You don't treat them all in the same manner. Hiura is an intelligent and poised individual with a very professional approach. No stage is too big for him.

 

And Hiura being called up won't have anything to do with his slash line. It'll be how good are his PAs - how well and consistent is his contact - how is he performing in the field.

I worded that poorly and already understand well what you felt compelled to explain. Restating:

 

I'd rather see the Brewers bring in someone else respectable/proven, leave Perez & Spangenberg (probably) as the two reserve IFs, and NOT force-feed Hiura to the bigs in May if he's not ready yet (whatever the organization deems "not ready yet" means) just because that presumably would be past the Super-Two cutoff and have it come down to "Help us, Keston Hiura. You're our only hope."

 

In other words, hopefully Hiura will be up when he's ready -- and hopefully raking big-time and therefore for good -- and not just because the Super-Two deadline has likely past. If he's ready by late May, then great. If not, I wouldn't want to see the Brewers bring him up because everyone else stunk and they felt he was the only remaining option, Hiura's developmental needs notwithstanding.

 

Hiura's definitely the Brewers' best hitting prospect since Braun came up. But it's no given that once he's up, he'll never go back down (well, hopefully he's up for good, but no guarantees). His performance would dictate if he stays in MIL.

[Humans Need Water]

If Hiura is a potentially elite hitter, you do what's best for his long-term development with NO pressure to perform at the MLB level. You don't throw him into a pennant race or prolonged MLB stint if it stands to be detrimental.

 

In other words, you don't count on him for 2019 at all. If he forces himself into the picture, then that's a great position for the Brewers to be in.

*No pressure* doesn't exist when you're on a WS caliber team and this team is built to for that 2019-2021. Every player is different intellectually, emotionally, psychologically, etc. You don't treat them all in the same manner. Hiura is an intelligent and poised individual with a very professional approach. No stage is too big for him.

 

And Hiura being called up won't have anything to do with his slash line. It'll be how good are his PAs - how well and consistent is his contact - how is he performing in the field.

I worded that poorly and already understand well what you felt compelled to explain. Restating:

 

I'd rather see the Brewers bring in someone else respectable/proven, leave Perez & Spangenberg (probably) as the two reserve IFs, and NOT force-feed Hiura to the bigs in May if he's not ready yet (whatever the organization deems "not ready yet" means) just because that presumably would be past the Super-Two cutoff and have it come down to "Help us, Keston Hiura. You're our only hope."

 

In other words, hopefully Hiura will be up when he's ready -- and hopefully raking big-time and therefore for good -- and not just because the Super-Two deadline has likely past. If he's ready by late May, then great. If not, I wouldn't want to see the Brewers bring him up because everyone else stunk and they felt he was the only remaining option, Hiura's developmental needs notwithstanding.

 

Hiura's definitely the Brewers' best hitting prospect since Braun came up. But it's no given that once he's up, he'll never go back down (hopefully, but no guarantees). His performance would dictate if he stays in MIL.

Then, yes, I agree!

[Bnowell4evr]

I'm intrigued by Wilmer Flores. He's young, doesn't strike out much, versatile, crushes lefties and won't cost much.

 

He would also fit nicely as Shaws platoon partner if Keston tears the cover off the ball.

 

Eh, he doesn't crush lefties. At least he didn't in 2018. He posted just a .610 OPS against LHP last year. Perez on the other hand is coming off his best year facing LHP, hitting .277/.304/.479 in 125 PA last year against lefties.

 

I just don't get the "anybody but Perez" thinking. Perez is a good heads up player. He might hit better playing primarily one position but he's a respectable .263 hitter with a .404 slugging percentage in a Brewer uniform. With the potential impact guys off the market, I'm fine with Perez with occasional starts by Spangenberg as the alternative until Hiura.

 

In 2018, Flores had some weird reverse platoon stats going on with an .804 OPS against RHP and only a .604 OPS against LHP. However, he slugged .710 and .553 against LHP in 2016/2017 and has slugged .471 against LHP in his career. His reverse platoon in 2018 and his past history against LHP is what gives me hope that a breakout might be coming. I've never seen anything from Hernan Perez that gives me hope that he can handle RHP. That is the reason behind the "anybody but Perez" thinking. Even if we signed someone like Wilmer Flores, that doesn't mean that Hernan's role on the team would change. Travis Shaw is a complete liability against lefties and it would greatly benefit the team if Hernan picked up those AB's. If we go with a 13 man pitching staff, that leaves 4 spots on the bench. Perez is our only RH bat besides a catcher so one of Spangeberg/Gamel (LH bat with an option) would be the odd man out unless we moved Thames.