2B/3B Options

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

What about Aguilar at third, Shaw at second, leaving Thames at first?

 

Stop with the Jesus to 3b nonsense.

 

It's not going to happen, nor should it.

 

Agreed. The Playstation-level player moving gets pretty old. Shaw playing 2B worked out to a degree, but an infield of Aguilar/Arcia/Shaw/Thames would be catastrophically bad, no matter now good Arcia is out there on D.

[clancyphile]

What about Aguilar at third, Shaw at second, leaving Thames at first?

 

Stop with the Jesus to 3b nonsense.

 

It's not going to happen, nor should it.

 

Agreed. The Playstation-level player moving gets pretty old. Shaw playing 2B worked out to a degree, but an infield of Aguilar/Arcia/Shaw/Thames would be catastrophically bad, no matter now good Arcia is out there on D.

 

The very small sample size points to Aguilar being at least adequate at third. Shaw was okay at second over the second half of 2018. So, to some extent, this sort of thing has already happened.

 

At the very least, this arrangement should be able to work for 2-3 months - long enough for Keston Hiura to come up. By then, Thames may well have established enough value that some team will take him off our hands. Shaw then goes to third, Aguilar back to first, and Hiura takes second.

 

Oh yeah, the Crew could then go for Kikuchi and stand pat at catcher. Spangenberg and Perez can serve as defensive replacements.

 

cf: Cain

rf: Yelich

3b: Aguilar (to 1B by June 30)

2b: Shaw (to 3B by June 30)

lf: Braun

1b: Thames (Replace by Hiura playing 2B by June 30)

c: Pina

ss: Arcia

pitcher

bench: Kratz, Spangenberg, Perez, Broxton, Gamel

rotation: Chacin, Kikuchi, Woodruff, Peralta, Burnes

bullpen: Jeffress, Hader, Knebel, Claudino, Barnes, T. Williams, Guerra

[ebmackenzie]

This time last year it would have been said,"Stop with the Shaw to 2b nonsense. It's not going to happen, nor should it." Yet the Jesus to 3b has already happened for 8 ABs. If you are fishing for more runs and don't have the capital to bring in Realmuto, Grandal, Tulo, Lowrie, et al then this is what creative teams have to do just to get by.

 

Kinda like having openers rather than starters...whatever you have to do to get through that period of the year and get to the playoffs. Maybe this year we don't have openers, we have starters and maybe next year we have players at natural positioning, but this level of creativity is very much in play even for just a few ABs a month.

[adambr2]

This time last year it would have been said,"Stop with the Shaw to 2b nonsense. It's not going to happen, nor should it." Yet the Jesus to 3b has already happened for 8 ABs. If you are fishing for more runs and don't have the capital to bring in Realmuto, Grandal, Tulo, Lowrie, et al then this is what creative teams have to do just to get by.

 

Kinda like having openers rather than starters...whatever you have to do to get through that period of the year and get to the playoffs. Maybe this year we don't have openers, we have starters and maybe next year we have players at natural positioning, but this level of creativity is very much in play even for just a few ABs a month.

 

It's a fair point here, and as much as the Brewers get by with creativity, I don't think radical ideas should be so quickly dismissed.

 

With that being said, it's pretty much been said by both the Brewers and Braun that he is never moving back to 3B.

 

As far as Aguilar goes, I could see him getting plugged in for an occasional game or two at 3rd as he was last season to get his bat in the lineup. On a regular basis however I seriously doubt that Aguilar at 3rd would be considered given his defensive limitations. I get that it happened with Shaw, but I think they simply saw it as a unique situation, rather than a green light now to shuffle players at will.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

This time last year it would have been said,"Stop with the Shaw to 2b nonsense. It's not going to happen, nor should it." Yet the Jesus to 3b has already happened for 8 ABs. If you are fishing for more runs and don't have the capital to bring in Realmuto, Grandal, Tulo, Lowrie, et al then this is what creative teams have to do just to get by.

 

Kinda like having openers rather than starters...whatever you have to do to get through that period of the year and get to the playoffs. Maybe this year we don't have openers, we have starters and maybe next year we have players at natural positioning, but this level of creativity is very much in play even for just a few ABs a month.

 

It's a fair point here, and as much as the Brewers get by with creativity, I don't think radical ideas should be so quickly dismissed.

 

With that being said, it's pretty much been said by both the Brewers and Braun that he is never moving back to 3B.

 

As far as Aguilar goes, I could see him getting plugged in for an occasional game or two at 3rd as he was last season to get his bat in the lineup. On a regular basis however I seriously doubt that Aguilar at 3rd would be considered given his defensive limitations. I get that it happened with Shaw, but I think they simply saw it as a unique situation, rather than a green light now to shuffle players at will.

 

Exactly. The idea of moving your sure-handed and athletic 3B to 2B has much more credence than moving your lumbering nearly 300-pound 1B to 3B. Just because Shaw played 2B doesn't mean that it's fair game on putting guys wherever you want. I'm all for creativity in the lineup and defensively, but the idea that Jesus is going to play 3B on a regular basis is just too far out there to make any logical sense.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Jesus spent the majority of his minor league career as a 3B.

 

I actually think it is less of a crazy idea then it was to move Shaw to 2B in the middle of a pennant race when he had never played a game there at any level.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Jesus spent the majority of his minor league career as a 3B.

 

I actually think it is less of a crazy idea then it was to move Shaw to 2B in the middle of a pennant race when he had never played a game there at any level.

 

I doubt that Jesus was pushing three bills when he was playing 3B regularly.

[clancyphile]

The problem is that we have yet to see a quality stopgap at second. The Brewers also need to move Thames (or Aguilar) at some point. The best way to do so is to see if he can produce, and get hot enough that when Hiura forces the issue at second, the Brewers can find a willing buyer.

 

Jesus hasn't been awful at third. Shaw was far better than expected at second.

 

Ideally, it's for two months at most, Hiura takes over second, and one of Thames/Aguilar gets traded while the other plays first, and Shaw goes back to third.

[sveumrules]

Jesus spent the majority of his minor league career as a 3B.

 

I actually think it is less of a crazy idea then it was to move Shaw to 2B in the middle of a pennant race when he had never played a game there at any level.

 

Where are you getting this info?

 

BRef lists Jesus playing 6,940 innings at 1B in the minors compared to 14 innings at 3B.

[TURBO]

 

Jesus hasn't been awful at third.

 

Really? How many games did he play there?

 

Jesus at 3B would be a total nightmare. Imagine that infield for 2 months... By that time, we may have played our way out of the playoffs.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Jesus hasn't been awful at third.

 

Really? How many games did he play there?

 

Jesus at 3B would be a total nightmare. Imagine that infield for 2 months... By that time, we may have played our way out of the playoffs.

 

But, but ...... but DINGERS!!!

[coolhandluke121]

Could the Gamel acquisition foreshadow a return to 3B for Ryan Braun blue font?

[NievesNoNO]

The problem is that we have yet to see a quality stopgap at second. The Brewers also need to move Thames (or Aguilar) at some point. The best way to do so is to see if he can produce, and get hot enough that when Hiura forces the issue at second, the Brewers can find a willing buyer.

 

Jesus hasn't been awful at third. Shaw was far better than expected at second.

 

Ideally, it's for two months at most, Hiura takes over second, and one of Thames/Aguilar gets traded while the other plays first, and Shaw goes back to third.

 

I give the Brewers credit for thinking out of the box last season and I'd expect some creativity this year as well. Some of that creativity was forced by a non-existent Arcia, a black hole at 2B and a slumping Aguilar/Thames. Moustakas was an option to inject some life into the infield offense and thankfully Shaw really held his own at 2B. I wouldn't count on that type of scenario as a plan A or even plan B to start the season. I think the stopgap at second is Perez\Spangenberg. I don't think there's really a debate on who the starting 1B is at this point. Aguilar has earned that and is the better bat though Thames still has his uses against Rhp, so I don't see either going anywhere. At least not to the point that they "need" to move one of them.

[TURBO]

Could the Gamel acquisition foreshadow a return to 3B for Ryan Braun blue font?

Yup, it is a given...

[3and2Fastball]

Maybe they should move Yelich to Shortstop.

[pacopete4]

Maybe they should move Yelich to Shortstop.

 

Well it worked for my little league team to have our best player play there so it should work for the Brewers.

[MNBrew]

....Jesus hasn't been awful at third. Shaw was far better than expected at second.

 

Ideally, it's for two months at most, Hiura takes over second, and one of Thames/Aguilar gets traded while the other plays first, and Shaw goes back to third.

Seriously? First, Shaw & Aguilar are different players. Just because one scenario worked does not make it an accurate predictor for the other.

 

Second, and more importantly, Aguilar has all of 8 MLB appearances at 3B for a total of 16.1 innings (7 appearances for 14.1 innings of which was for MIL) -- not even 2 full games! Doing that basically helped the Brewers get by for a couple games and at the end of a couple late-game double-switches or post-PH field maneuvering instances -- and that's it!

[KeithStone53151]

I'll agree aguilar at 3b simply isn't realistic. A large part of last year's success came from very good defense. Aguilar weakens that no matter how well we shift. Im starting to think lowrie is going to be our guy. He fits so well.

[MNBrew]

I'm okay if we spend a little more than seems practical if it brings in a good 2B for 2018. We need to improve that position the most -- more than SP & RP and especially more so than C.

 

If that's Lowrie, I'm all for it. I agree that he may be the best fit. I also like LeMahieu a lot. I do wonder if we're targeting more of a one-year signing. Hiura can hit BUT it's not automatic (or at least not known yet) if he'll be up forever the first time he gets promoted to the majors, so a more-than-one-year deal may not be so outrageous. Having proven veteran depth is nice insurance, especially in case of injury (in other words, I really don't want Perez to end up starting 100 games).

 

If, per the OP, the next highest-ranked FA options are Dozier & Cabrera, the holes in their respective games make me a bit wary. Neil Walker was respectable for us in 2017 and might be a more quietly solid signing. Moustakas, similar thing as Dozier & Cabrera, but we know that puts Shaw at 2B and, while maybe not completely ideal, we know that configuration can work.

 

I really like the hitter than Daniel Murphy is, but we lost out on him. If it'd been Ian Kinsler v. 2013-ish, I'd be bummed, but I'm not sad to miss out on Ian Kinsler v.2018.

[Eye Black]

A (slightly crazy) outside the box idea to add a 2B/3B for 2019 and beyond...

 

Trade Keston Hiura and 1-2 additional pieces (either MLB player or prospects) to the Reds for infielder Nick Senzel.

 

Reds top prospect Nick Senzel is coming off a couple injuries, but is major league ready if he’s healthy. He played some 2B at Triple-A last season before suffering a season ending right index finger injury. He also dealt with vertigo earlier in the season and had surgery this past October (during instructs) to remove bone chips from his left elbow. The injuries are a little concerning, but the talent is immense.

 

The Reds don’t appear to have a ton of at bats to give Senzel at the major league level this season with Eugenio Suárez at 3B and Scooter Gennett at 2B (unless they move Senzel to the OF). Suarez is signed through 2024, but Scooter is set to become a free agent after this upcoming season so the Reds will have an opening at 2B beginning in 2020.

 

There would certainly be risk for both teams in making this move, but it could make some sense for each organization as well.

[Fear The Chorizo]

A (slightly crazy) outside the box idea to add a 2B/3B for 2019 and beyond...

 

Trade Keston Hiura and 1-2 additional pieces (either MLB player or prospects) to the Reds for infielder Nick Senzel.

 

Reds top prospect Nick Senzel is coming off a couple injuries, but is major league ready if he’s healthy. He played some 2B at Triple-A last season before suffering a season ending right index finger injury. He also dealt with vertigo earlier in the season and had surgery this past October (during instructs) to remove bone chips from his left elbow. The injuries are a little concerning, but the talent is immense.

 

The Reds don’t appear to have a ton of at bats to give Senzel at the major league level this season with Eugenio Suárez at 3B and Scooter Gennett at 2B (unless they move Senzel to the OF). Suarez is signed through 2024, but Scooter is set to become a free agent after this upcoming season so the Reds will have an opening at 2B beginning in 2020.

 

There would certainly be risk for both teams in making this move, but it could make some sense for each organization as well.

 

Senzel went 2nd overall in his draft year (2016) out of college - I'd argue Hiura could've easily landed in the top couple overall picks in his draft year had more been known about the longterm health of his arm. Hiura is 1 year younger and doesn't carry the same longterm injury risk he had leading into 2018, and will likely be a top-10 prospect in all of baseball - my guess is there won't be 5 other "prospects" ranked ahead of Hiura who aren't starting their seasons in the major leagues in 2019, unless there are some egregious service time shenanigans with the likes of Vlad Jr, Jimenez, etc. I think both have the potential to be great MLB players, and it's pretty much guaranteed that prospect for prospect trades like this don't happen. The Reds will need Senzel to open up 2019 at AAA to get his feet back under him after the injury-plagued 2018. Despite the Reds' apparent IF logjam, if Senzel is healthy he'll be up sometime in 2019 playing everyday for Cincinnati - perhaps even as an OF.

[Eye Black]

Understood, I was much higher on Hiura than any other player who could have reasonably been available at the Brewers selection in the 2017 draft.

 

The biggest thing Senzel offers that Hiura doesn’t is more positional flexibility, and a higher likelihood of being MLB ready in 2019. I agree the odds of a prospect-for-prospect trade are nearly zero (and the Brewers would have to give up additional value to make it work) which is why I prefaced with “slightly crazy”.

 

I remain very excited for Keston Hiura’s future, but given a current comparison of the two players I would bet on Senzel to be a better overall major leaguer provided he stays relatively healthy. Just my opinion, and not meant to be a knock on Hiura at all.

 

Anyway, it’s a long offseason and just throwing out something that I realize isn’t actually going to happen.

[Lathund]

This isn't really a serious suggestion as I doubt they're looking to move a guy with 6 years of control, but I'd love to see Willians Astudillo in a Brewers uniform. He's someone who's a bit of a late bloomer. Plays mainly catcher, but also played a lot of 1B and 3B. Whats interesting about him is that he's the anti "three true outcomes" player. His BB% is typically between 2-4%. Which isn't good. But his K% is also typically between 2-4%. Which is astounding. The man puts the ball in play a lot. A ton of IFFB too ofc. Has consistently put up wRC+ in the 120s in the minors, and had a wRC+ of 139 (In only 97 PAs) with the Twins last year. As for how good he is defensively I don't really know, he's got a quite, uhm, unique constitution for a baseball player. Decent framer apparently.

 

Would be a RH bat-first C/1B/3B, which makes for a pretty good roster fit too. Like I said, unlikely to happen, but it makes some sense and he'd be an instant fan favourite. Just finished his winter league play: .325/.370/.500. 13 BBs, 4Ks in 234 ABs.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Tulo to the Yanks, cross him off the list.

[MNBrew]

If Astudillo is everything he seems to be, then there's no reason the Twins would want to let him go -- precisely for the same reasons he has appeal to our eyes and maybe others'.

 

It seems curious that the guy has pretty consistently had a .300+ BA, usually with a respectable workload, coming up through the minors (though only a minimally higher OBP), yet he wasn't ranked one of the Twins' Top 30 Prospects coming into this year. Minimal power and okay-ish run production for the most part. Somehow he's on his 4th organization.

 

Hopefully he's indeed just a late bloomer. Otherwise, it seems rather peculiar that such a good-hitting bat like his hasn't gained him more acclaim or organizational traction as a prospect on his way up.