2B/3B Options

[TURBO]

If we enter the season with no improvements at 2B and C, and Arcia continues his struggles, it will be so disappointing.

 

I can live with Pina at C, but we have to do something better than CS and Perez at 2B.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I can live with Pina at C, but we have to do something better than CS and Perez at 2B.

 

He's going to be sitting in AAA waiting past the super 2 cutoff to start 2019 - I'd much rather focus alot more time and resources upgrading at C offensively and adding an impact starting pitcher.

 

Getting a healthy Tulo in the mix as a 2B/backup SS/3B option for the league minimum would be awesome, too.

[wallus]

We just signed a guy to a that was a regular major leaguer last year to a split contract for relatively little money. Lowrie and Gonzalez, among others, are still available as free agents. There are also trade possibilities as well. It is December 21st. No reason to worry at all yet. We are not done adding yet.

[Devinep]

I think DS is ok with a platoon at 2nd base going into the season and is more interested in targeting pitching.

 

I think he's fine with Saladino, Perez, and Spangenberg if they're confident Hiura and/or Dubon are going to be up by May. It's honestly not a terrible idea even if it isn't what I am advocating for.

 

April- Saldino, Perez, Spangenberg combo (Saldino and Spangenberg both have an option remaining so they can and probably will be optioned at some point)

May onward- Hiura (or maybe Dubon)

 

They always have the trade deadline as insurance if they need to add a veteran at second base.

 

***I'd only advocate for this plan if they're going to spend money on Grandal or a high quality reliever

 

100%agree-it’s be ok to cheap out at 2B if:

1-it’s only until prospect control is delayed a year, and

2-that $ saved goes to help other spots

[502 to Right]

I can live with Pina at C, but we have to do something better than CS and Perez at 2B.

 

He's going to be sitting in AAA waiting past the super 2 cutoff to start 2019 - I'd much rather focus alot more time and resources upgrading at C offensively and adding an impact starting pitcher.

 

 

You guys have a lot of faith that someone who has played a grand total of 96 games above Class A ball (and not one game at the AAA level) is going to be significant contributor in 2019.

 

I won't be surprised if Hiura spends all of 2019 in AAA.

[homer]

Is there anyone entering the last year of their deal that we could trade for? Probably not gonna happen but throwing it out for discussion.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I can live with Pina at C, but we have to do something better than CS and Perez at 2B.

 

He's going to be sitting in AAA waiting past the super 2 cutoff to start 2019 - I'd much rather focus alot more time and resources upgrading at C offensively and adding an impact starting pitcher.

 

 

You guys have a lot of faith that someone who has played a grand total of 96 games above Class A ball (and not one game at the AAA level) is going to be significant contributor in 2019.

 

I won't be surprised if Hiura spends all of 2019 in AAA.

 

Agree completely. Pretty hard for me to turn the 2B job on World Series contender over to a "green as grass" rookie. I don't care how high his "hit tool" is on the scale. If he tears the cover off the ball in AAA and show's he's ready defensively, and stays healthy, then I'll gladly eat crow. Still, it would be nice to not have to depend on that happening this year.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Is there anyone entering the last year of their deal that we could trade for? Probably not gonna happen but throwing it out for discussion.

 

Jason Kipnis ... but that wouldn't exactly be a sure thing. If they are serious about dangling Kluber, though, taking on his contract may be a way to lower the prospect demand going back.

[SRB]

Is there anyone entering the last year of their deal that we could trade for? Probably not gonna happen but throwing it out for discussion.

 

2020 free agents (with projected 2019 wRC+ and 2019 salary)

 

Starlin Castro (MIA), 96 wRC+, $11M + $1M buyout

Scooter Gennett (CIN), 96 wRC+, $10.7M

Jedd Gyorko (STL), 103 wRC+, $13M + $1M buyout

Brock Holt (BOS), 93 wRC+, $3.4M

Howie Kendrick (WAS), 101 wRC+, $3.5M

Jason Kipnis (CLE), 94 wRC+, $14.5M + $2.5M buyout

Eduardo Nunez (BOS), 96 wRC+, $5M

Ben Zobrist (CHC), 107 wRC+, $12M

 

Chris Owings and Jonathan Schoop are also on one-year deals that they just signed this offseason.

 

Factoring in cost none of those options exit me much more than a Spangenberg/Perez platoon. If we're willing to pay >$10M we could probably just sign Dozier on a one year rebound contract.

[long ball]

I can live with Pina at C, but we have to do something better than CS and Perez at 2B.

 

He's going to be sitting in AAA waiting past the super 2 cutoff to start 2019 - I'd much rather focus alot more time and resources upgrading at C offensively and adding an impact starting pitcher.

 

 

You guys have a lot of faith that someone who has played a grand total of 96 games above Class A ball (and not one game at the AAA level) is going to be significant contributor in 2019.

 

I won't be surprised if Hiura spends all of 2019 in AAA.

Braun played ~30 games in AAA before being callles up permanently. I’m not putting Braun expectations on the kid, but top prospects coming out of college don’t need 3-4 full years in the minors.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I can live with Pina at C, but we have to do something better than CS and Perez at 2B.

 

He's going to be sitting in AAA waiting past the super 2 cutoff to start 2019 - I'd much rather focus alot more time and resources upgrading at C offensively and adding an impact starting pitcher.

 

 

You guys have a lot of faith that someone who has played a grand total of 96 games above Class A ball (and not one game at the AAA level) is going to be significant contributor in 2019.

 

I won't be surprised if Hiura spends all of 2019 in AAA.

 

Maybe I'm stubbornly sticking to my line of thinking from around early May 2018, when Hiura 1st started seeing the field and wasn't just DH-ing in A+ ball - I mentioned then that if his throwing arm proved to be healthy and he held his own defensively at 2B, Hiura would find himself in Milwaukee before the 2019 season ended.

 

I'm not saying I expect Hiura to be up by mid June 2019 and hitting 3rd in the Brewers' lineup - I'm saying it's kind of naive to think the best 2B options available on the FA market are going to take 1 or 2 year deals from the Brewers when everyone knows the future of that position is Hiura. And, that future could arrive at some point next season. If he isn't in Milwaukee in 2019, he will be in 2020. Guys like Lowrie and LeMahieu are either looking for way more years, way more annual $, or a combination of both than what I'd want the Brewers to spend. They are looking for a Zobrist-like FA contract or something very close to it.

 

You left the last part of my previous post off your quote - the part where I mentioned looking at a guy like Tulo makes a ton of sense for the 2019 Brewers. I'd much rather take a 1 yr veteran flyer on a guy like Tulo - who you can pay league minimum - to add to the MIF mix for 2019 instead of exhausting a large chunk of remaining payroll budget to entice one of the other FA options to come here for 1-2 years (Lowrie, LeMahieu, Dozier, etc).

 

If the Brewers upgrade at C and add a pitcher of significance, and then still have budget available to bring in one of the top remaining FA, I'd be fine with it. Maybe that will be the case if there aren't other teams willing to spend significantly at 2B due to their own budgetary limitations or perceived better in-house options.

[clancyphile]

I can live with Pina at C, but we have to do something better than CS and Perez at 2B.

 

He's going to be sitting in AAA waiting past the super 2 cutoff to start 2019 - I'd much rather focus alot more time and resources upgrading at C offensively and adding an impact starting pitcher.

 

 

You guys have a lot of faith that someone who has played a grand total of 96 games above Class A ball (and not one game at the AAA level) is going to be significant contributor in 2019.

 

I won't be surprised if Hiura spends all of 2019 in AAA.

 

Maybe I'm stubbornly sticking to my line of thinking from around early May 2018, when Hiura 1st started seeing the field and wasn't just DH-ing in A+ ball - I mentioned then that if his throwing arm proved to be healthy and he held his own defensively at 2B, Hiura would find himself in Milwaukee before the 2019 season ended.

 

I'm not saying I expect Hiura to be up by mid June 2019 and hitting 3rd in the Brewers' lineup - I'm saying it's kind of naive to think the best 2B options available on the FA market are going to take 1 or 2 year deals from the Brewers when everyone knows the future of that position is Hiura. And, that future could arrive at some point next season. If he isn't in Milwaukee in 2019, he will be in 2020. Guys like Lowrie and LeMahieu are either looking for way more years, way more annual $, or a combination of both than what I'd want the Brewers to spend. They are looking for a Zobrist-like FA contract or something very close to it.

 

You left the last part of my previous post off your quote - the part where I mentioned looking at a guy like Tulo makes a ton of sense for the 2019 Brewers. I'd much rather take a 1 yr veteran flyer on a guy like Tulo - who you can pay league minimum - to add to the MIF mix for 2019 instead of exhausting a large chunk of remaining payroll budget to entice one of the other FA options to come here for 1-2 years (Lowrie, LeMahieu, Dozier, etc).

 

If the Brewers upgrade at C and add a pitcher of significance, and then still have budget available to bring in one of the top remaining FA, I'd be fine with it. Maybe that will be the case if there aren't other teams willing to spend significantly at 2B due to their own budgetary limitations or perceived better in-house options.

 

Tulo for one year, plus a team option is a good idea, IMO. If he works out well, he can still be an asset.

 

If not, how much would a buyout cost the Crew?

[JohnBriggs12]

Personally, while I'd like to see an upgrade at 2B, I'm not that freaked out by having Perez as the main guy there for a few months. One, I think Perez playing regularly mainly at one position will result in better offense. Knowing he's going to be in the lineup, he'll be less anxious at the plate and when he gets in a groove, he'll maximize it. He's a talented player all around and very underrated.

[TURBO]

Personally, while I'd like to see an upgrade at 2B, I'm not that freaked out by having Perez as the main guy there for a few months. One, I think Perez playing regularly mainly at one position will result in better offense. Knowing he's going to be in the lineup, he'll be less anxious at the plate and when he gets in a groove, he'll maximize it. He's a talented player all around and very underrated.

 

I disagree.........with all that was said above.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The problem with Perez is that he's shown little to no improvement through what should be his prime years. He's basically the same player he was when the Brewers first acquired him. While he does have value as a versatile super sub, that lack of improvement has made him the type of player that good teams are consistently looking to replace. It will eventually get to the point where he's going to cost to much in arbitration to justify what he provides to the team. He gets closer to that breaking point every year.

[PeaveyFury]

The problem with Perez is that he's shown little to no improvement through what should be his prime years. He's basically the same player he was when the Brewers first acquired him. While he does have value as a versatile super sub, that lack of improvement has made him the type of player that good teams are consistently looking to replace. It will eventually get to the point where he's going to cost to much in arbitration to justify what he provides to the team. He gets closer to that breaking point every year.

 

I think this is spot on. Perez has value to the team in the versatile bench role that he's designed to play at a modest cost. It's when the cost is no longer modest or the role involves starting at one position that he's not the player you want in that role. I have zero doubt that Perez is valuable to this team, but it isn't as an expected starter.

[TURBO]

The problem with Perez is that he's shown little to no improvement through what should be his prime years. He's basically the same player he was when the Brewers first acquired him. While he does have value as a versatile super sub, that lack of improvement has made him the type of player that good teams are consistently looking to replace. It will eventually get to the point where he's going to cost to much in arbitration to justify what he provides to the team. He gets closer to that breaking point every year.

 

I think this is spot on. Perez has value to the team in the versatile bench role that he's designed to play at a modest cost. It's when the cost is no longer modest or the role involves starting at one position that he's not the player you want in that role. I have zero doubt that Perez is valuable to this team, but it isn't as an expected starter.

 

 

I agree.........with all that was said above.

[502 to Right]

My issue with going cheap on 2B in 2019 is that this is the one position the Brewers can really improve from the 2018 season. I don't want to see that opportunity squandered with a bargain basement platoon and a hope that people get better.

[Fear The Chorizo]

My issue with going cheap on 2B in 2019 is that this is the one position the Brewers can really improve from the 2018 season. I don't want to see that opportunity squandered with a bargain basement platoon and a hope that people get better.

 

True, but it's also a position they would be foolish to break their proverbial piggybank over given the fact they will have an impact offensive prospect manning that position and making league minimum in the near future. Unless hiura is traded for realmuto or kluber, which I strongly doubt, his presence in the organization has to impact what the brewers want to open 2019 with at 2b.

 

And in reality, there are alot of ways the brewers can get much more production offensively from 2b that don't include giving out a huge FA contract this offseason.

[Oxy]

Still too early. If April comes around and this is the roster, then we can complain. Then--if Stearns does nothing-- June will come around and we can all see who was signed for how much and what kind of production they provided and we can evaluate then.

 

(Hopefully we make another add before April)

[Eye Black]

Is there anyone entering the last year of their deal that we could trade for? Probably not gonna happen but throwing it out for discussion.

There doesn’t appear to be many feasible options in that regard (2020 Free Agents). If the Reds weren’t apparently going for it in 2019 they have a second baseman with one year of control remaining. I’m leaving the name redacted so I don’t accidentally sound the alarms.

[clancyphile]

The problem with Perez is that he's shown little to no improvement through what should be his prime years. He's basically the same player he was when the Brewers first acquired him. While he does have value as a versatile super sub, that lack of improvement has made him the type of player that good teams are consistently looking to replace. It will eventually get to the point where he's going to cost to much in arbitration to justify what he provides to the team. He gets closer to that breaking point every year.

 

I think this is spot on. Perez has value to the team in the versatile bench role that he's designed to play at a modest cost. It's when the cost is no longer modest or the role involves starting at one position that he's not the player you want in that role. I have zero doubt that Perez is valuable to this team, but it isn't as an expected starter.

 

But what price do you place on having Perez, and being able to keep 13 pitchers?

 

He's a massive bonus in roster flexibility.

[JohnBriggs12]

Is there anyone entering the last year of their deal that we could trade for? Probably not gonna happen but throwing it out for discussion.

 

Well, there's a guy who came up as a 3B who kills LHP and is said to be on the market. That's Nick Castellanos. Okay, I realize his defense at 3B is an issue as it is in the OF, but it's hard to ignore his splits vs. LH (.381/.432/.571 in 2018) and having his bat in the lineup against teams like the Cubs with all their LH starting pitching makes him very intriguing and insurance if Aguilar falls off the cliff.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Just curious, what if Hiura regresses or blows out his elbow?

[Roderick]

Just curious, what if Hiura regresses or blows out his elbow?

 

Then you configure with the parts you have: Perez, Spangenberg, Dubon, Saladino etc, etc.

 

If they don't work out, then you trade for a Hairston, Walker at the deadline.

 

We can always trade Zach Brown and others to get back Sogard.