Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds

[Fear The Chorizo]

you gotta wonder if the Brewers' FO has a finite budget given their financial limitations if they want to be smart, and with Stearns' value appearing to dramatically rise and likely warrant a promotion to Pres of Baseball ops and a big raise to go with it, there wasn't a chance they could match a huge offer made by the Reds for Johnson to be a pitching coach.

 

The conspiracy theory/can't-have-nice-things worry in my mind is wondering if Stearns is on the way out to a big market offering the moon and the coaches are essentially free to go if they don't want the risk of a new GM/baseball ops group gutting the staff when they arrive anyway.

 

It sure seems like Stearns does a pretty good job of identifying pitching talent, so if he isn't leaving Milwaukee himself I have quite a bit of confidence that he'll find solid options to coach the pitching staff. Not a knock on Johnson, but I think sometimes his impact to improving pitchers is overestimated, particularly considering the fact that there have been some busts on the mound that his apparent pixie dust couldn't help.

[502 to Right]

Maybe Johnson prefers Skyline Chili to Real Chili.

[Madhawk23]

I have no idea if this factored in at all, but I saw someone mention that David Bell and DJ would have crossed paths by at least one year with the Cubs back around 2012. I have no idea if they may have formed a good relationship during that time or not, but it could be possible that they did become close and perhaps DJ really wanted to go help out a friend and take on a new challenge? Just spit-balling like everyone else here, but something to at least consider?

 

Then again, maybe it is just a money move - and we failed miserably here.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Adding up everything I've heard, a team threw stupid money at a guy they looked at from afar as a magician like many of us fans did. DJ is someone the Brewers would have been happy to bring back no doubt. But he's not irreplaceable. Irreplaceable is when you sign a blank check. Unless Cincinnati gets really good at placing their defenders (19th DRS), their pitchers aren't going to make the leaps they're expecting with Derek Johnson given what they're paying him. Add the money and being closer to home, and you can see why Johnson would make the leap. I can also see why the Brewers didn't think he's the sole or even biggest reason for their pitching success.

 

I also think there's something to be said for CC and DJ not necessarily having the same vision for the future of pitching. That's admittedly pure speculation but I saw that one raised earlier and it makes some sense.

[stoutdude04]

It is a little bit concerning that our hitting and pitching coaches left after the season. Hopefully it is just a coincidence.

[torts]

Wonder if this has anything to do with the the talk of moving away from starters?

[502 to Right]

Perhaps Johnson's great-grandfather was born in Cincinnati?

[KCBrewerfan34]

McCalvey brought up minor league PC Darby (I think his name is).

[jerichoholicninja]

I'll just throw out any pitching coaches from the Rays organization as candidates. There's the Matt Arnold connection and the Rays having a similar "pitcher use" philosophy. Kyle Snyder just finished his first season as pitching coach with the major league team and the Rays website lists 4 "pitching coordinators" on their staff. Rocco Baldelli just went from a non-dugout major league coach to a manager so that jump isn't totally unheard of. I think all the Brewers current minor league pitching coaches are holdovers from before Stearns and Counsell so I just don't see any of those guys being considered.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I'll just throw out any pitching coaches from the Rays organization as candidates. There's the Matt Arnold connection and the Rays having a similar "pitcher use" philosophy. Kyle Snyder just finished his first season as pitching coach with the major league team and the Rays website lists 4 "pitching coordinators" on their staff. Rocco Baldelli just went from a non-dugout major league coach to a manager so that jump isn't totally unheard of. I think all the Brewers current minor league pitching coaches are holdovers from before Stearns and Counsell so I just don't see any of those guys being considered.

 

Heck, if the hire comes from Tampa Bay I'll be of the belief that the Brewers low-balled Johnson so they could free up the spot. Then we'll see how many here start to believe in what I've been saying is coming with the usage of the pitchers. Tampa is probably the only team ahead of Milwaukee on this path so why not hire from there.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Personally I believe that there must be some sort of turmoil in the clubhouse between the coaches. That is really the only rational explanation that I can come up with as to why a team that was one win away from playing in the World Series would have this much turnover in their coaching staff.

 

I really hope this is not a case of Attanasio being cheap and if it is you have to wonder if he will be willing to pay Stearns at the top of the market which he has certainly earned. We must do whatever it takes to keep our GM in the fold. If Attanasio has to pay 8 or even 10 million per season to keep Stearns he just has to do it. We cannot afford to lose him and hope that we don't hire the next Bando or Taylor. Losing Johnson is a big blow and I really hope its not a sign of things to come.

 

It is a rational explanation, but definitely not the only one. Many other possibilities have been mentioned in the thread, most of which are equally rational.

 

 

I wanted to respond to this too. The excerpt about Counsell from the book "The Chicken Runs at Midnight" was posted here, but I'm going to post it again. I suggest anyone who thinks CC is difficult to work for should read it and then explain how CC transformed from a wonderful guy to some power mad tyrant driving assistant coaches to other organizations. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24852392/chicken-runs-midnight

[reillymcshane]

Johnson was the pitching coach at Vanderbilt - in Nashville - for 11 years. He and his wife have two kids - one in grade school and and one in high school. The family continues to live in Nashville.

 

A big part of the move may simply be about being a little closer to family and home. Milwaukee is more than twice as far from Nashville as Cincinnati.

[torts]

Johnson was the pitching coach at Vanderbilt - in Nashville - for 11 years. He and his wife have two kids - one in grade school and and one in high school. The family continues to live in Nashville.

 

A big part of the move may simply be about being a little closer to family and home. Milwaukee is more than twice as far from Nashville as Cincinnati.

 

yeah, but... ohio... kinda sucks.

[502 to Right]

Maybe he's a big horse racing guy and wants to be closer to Churchill Downs in Louisville for the Kentucky Derby.

[dlk9s]

I heard Counsell threatened to "kick his punk ass" every day if he didn't do intravenous drugs with him in the parking lot.

[danzig6767]

It's always about the money.

Usually is and non-managers on a coaching staff don't make millions like the players do.

 

Sure, maybe something else was a bigger reason, but in a situation like this, i'd always bet on money being the biggest factor. This very well was Johnson's best chance to maximize his financial value.

[OnaBadger58]

DJ gives some reason for moving on to the Reds.

 

[TURBO]

DJ gives some reason for moving on to the Reds.

 

 

Was that a little "shot" at the end?

 

The Reds made him feel wanted...

 

Did the Brewers not do the same?

[OnaBadger58]

DJ gives some reason for moving on to the Reds.

 

 

Was that a little "shot" at the end?

 

The Reds made him feel wanted...

 

Did the Brewers not do the same?

I didn't take it as that way, but I could see how it could maybe be interpreted that way. I really think it just comes down to a higher pay and geographically being closer to home for him. I do think the Brewers had a chance to retain him though...

[owbc]

I didn't take it as that way, but I could see how it could maybe be interpreted that way. I really think it just comes down to a higher pay and geographically being closer to home for him. I do think the Brewers had a chance to retain him though...

 

Yep--and it sounds like the Brewers would have needed to beat the Reds' offer to keep him, not just match. It is what it is.

[homer]

Seems odd the Brewers wouldn't match. I don't think these guys make all that much in the grand scheme of things. Why not just give him the extra dough? Makes me think the Brewers approach to pitching doesn't jibe with some of the old school guys. Maybe they feel like their opinion isn't valued anymore.

[MadScientist]

I didn't take it as that way, but I could see how it could maybe be interpreted that way. I really think it just comes down to a higher pay and geographically being closer to home for him. I do think the Brewers had a chance to retain him though...

 

Yep--and it sounds like the Brewers would have needed to beat the Reds' offer to keep him, not just match. It is what it is.

 

He also said the Reds were extremely persistent. So its possible DJ went back and forth a couple of times, where the Brewers matched / upped the offer and the Reds topped it, and finally the Brewers stopped.

[AZBrewCrew]

A wise young urban gentleman once said “no money,mo problems”

 

 

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[Boomer5]

DJ gives some reason for moving on to the Reds.

 

 

Interesting he only mentioned liking Craig.

[Boomer5]

Seems odd the Brewers wouldn't match. I don't think these guys make all that much in the grand scheme of things. Why not just give him the extra dough? Makes me think the Brewers approach to pitching doesn't jibe with some of the old school guys. Maybe they feel like their opinion isn't valued anymore.

 

Crazy they didn’t beat the Reds offer. A coach who helps $2M pitchers perform like $10M pitchers are worth a fortune.