2018 Award Season

[MrTPlush]

I don't see why it is hard to believe someone left off Counsell. You only get to vote for three guys, right? Thinking Counsell isn't Top 3 seems believable. Top manager is so subjective...most vote just on results vs. expectations. The rest vote for lovability. Actual moves isn't looked at unless you are a complete idiot...at which point you probably aren't running a winning team.

[sveumrules]

I guess I could see giving Shildt a 3rd place vote if you were a homer STL writer, but putting him second on your ballot for one hot month (7-7 in July, 22-6 in August, 12-15 in September) seems pretty dubious, even with the bar set as low as it is.

[MadScientist]

I don't see why it is hard to believe someone left off Counsell. You only get to vote for three guys, right? Thinking Counsell isn't Top 3 seems believable. Top manager is so subjective...most vote just on results vs. expectations. The rest vote for lovability. Actual moves isn't looked at unless you are a complete idiot...at which point you probably aren't running a winning team.

Brewers were predicted to win 77-86 (exceeding expectations by 10-19 games)

Braves were predicted to win 72-80 (exceeding expectations by 10-18 games)

 

Brewers division lived up to expectations and was very tough.

Braves division fell apart, all teams other than the Braves would have finished 5 (or 6th) in the central.

 

Voters just forgot about what teams were actually predicted to do, didn't consider the competition, and didn't know or pay attention to how games were actually managed.

 

Maybe Baseball-Reference or Fangraphs can come up with a managerial WAR stat.

[MrTPlush]

I don't see why it is hard to believe someone left off Counsell. You only get to vote for three guys, right? Thinking Counsell isn't Top 3 seems believable. Top manager is so subjective...most vote just on results vs. expectations. The rest vote for lovability. Actual moves isn't looked at unless you are a complete idiot...at which point you probably aren't running a winning team.

Brewers were predicted to win 77-86 (exceeding expectations by 10-19 games)

Braves were predicted to win 72-80 (exceeding expectations by 10-18 games)

 

Brewers division lived up to expectations and was very tough.

Braves division fell apart, all teams other than the Braves would have finished 5 (or 6th) in the central.

 

Voters just forgot about what teams were actually predicted to do, didn't consider the competition, and didn't know or pay attention to how games were actually managed.

 

Maybe Baseball-Reference or Fangraphs can come up with a managerial WAR stat.

 

So the players are responsible for expectations and the manager is responsible for anything over that? I mean I don't even know how to rate managers...there are so many variables and reasons a manager is good. It doesn't shock me someones opinion had Counsell outside the Top 3.

 

This isn't like the MVP where finding the best and ranking them is much easier.

[MadScientist]

I don't see why it is hard to believe someone left off Counsell. You only get to vote for three guys, right? Thinking Counsell isn't Top 3 seems believable. Top manager is so subjective...most vote just on results vs. expectations. The rest vote for lovability. Actual moves isn't looked at unless you are a complete idiot...at which point you probably aren't running a winning team.

Brewers were predicted to win 77-86 (exceeding expectations by 10-19 games)

Braves were predicted to win 72-80 (exceeding expectations by 10-18 games)

 

Brewers division lived up to expectations and was very tough.

Braves division fell apart, all teams other than the Braves would have finished 5 (or 6th) in the central.

 

Voters just forgot about what teams were actually predicted to do, didn't consider the competition, and didn't know or pay attention to how games were actually managed.

 

Maybe Baseball-Reference or Fangraphs can come up with a managerial WAR stat.

 

So the players are responsible for expectations and the manager is responsible for anything over that? I mean I don't even know how to rate managers...there are so many variables and reasons a manager is good. It doesn't shock me someones opinion had Counsell outside the Top 3.

 

This isn't like the MVP where finding the best and ranking them is much easier.

It comes down to two questions. 1) Given the quality of the players, how well did the manager convert that talent into wins. 2) How much better (or worse) is each player due to the influence of the manager? Question 1 can be somewhat assessed based on projections and simulations. Question 2 has two elements a) how often was a player put in the best chance to succeed (e.g. L-R split advantages, facing batters 3 times, etc), and b) What intangible influences did a manager have on a player's performance (calming influence during streaks, creating a positive clubhouse atmosphere, strategic use of days off, etc). The last one is almost impossible to ascertain, but it seems like many writers are using guesses about it to judge MotY voting. It may not be shocking, but it doesn't seem like the best way to vote.

 

While the mWAR suggestiion was somewhat in jest, it seems something could be calculated based on 1 and 2a above, so there would at least be an objective starting point for MotY discussions.

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't see why it is hard to believe someone left off Counsell. You only get to vote for three guys, right? Thinking Counsell isn't Top 3 seems believable. Top manager is so subjective...most vote just on results vs. expectations. The rest vote for lovability. Actual moves isn't looked at unless you are a complete idiot...at which point you probably aren't running a winning team.

Brewers were predicted to win 77-86 (exceeding expectations by 10-19 games)

Braves were predicted to win 72-80 (exceeding expectations by 10-18 games)

 

Brewers division lived up to expectations and was very tough.

Braves division fell apart, all teams other than the Braves would have finished 5 (or 6th) in the central.

 

Voters just forgot about what teams were actually predicted to do, didn't consider the competition, and didn't know or pay attention to how games were actually managed.

 

Maybe Baseball-Reference or Fangraphs can come up with a managerial WAR stat.

 

Once again, not taking anything away from the Braves or Snitker but, the Brewers over-performed and won a highly competitive division (not to mention best record in NL) while the Braves over-performed and won a division where everyone else was "tanking", collapsed, or failed miserably while having the worst record among all the playoff teams. Based on what people generally expect from manager of the year, Snitker and Counsell are the only two who should have been considered. I'd say maybe Black but the Rockies only improved by 4 wins from 2017.

[MrTPlush]

Christian Yelich is the MVP!!!

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm totally fine with Counsell not winning it. I think he should have, but it's not some robbery. Same way I felt with Cain and the GG.

 

Leaving him off the ballot is lunacy. That's someone who shouldn't have a credential. It's just idiotic.

[clancyphile]

Yelich MVP, Cain 7th, Aguilar 16th.

 

Three Brewers on ballots. WOW.

[long ball]

A nice cap to the 2018 season. The best and probably most fun Brewers season of my lifetime.

[OnaBadger58]

Yelich received 29 1st place votes and one 2nd place vote. deGrom was the only player other than Yelich to receive a 1st place vote.

 

1. Yelich 415

2. Baez 250

3. Arenado 203

[Bombers]

Pretty cool reaction video where Braun was there in support

 

[adambr2]

Yelich received 29 1st place votes and one 2nd place vote. deGrom was the only player other than Yelich to receive a 1st place vote.

 

1. Yelich 415

2. Baez 250

3. Arenado 203

 

I can understand that a lot more than Baez.

[MrTPlush]

Pretty cool reaction video where Braun was there in support

 

 

Heck, he is probably staying with Yelich these days. He had to evacuate his at one point.

[bork]

In the 36 years since 1982, the Brewers now have had 3 MVPs, 1 gold glove and 0 Cy Youngs

[baybeachbum1]

In the 36 years since 1982, the Brewers now have had 3 MVPs, 1 gold glove and 0 Cy Youngs

 

Nice cut-off date there. Are you a youngling who doesn't remember (and so doesn't want to acknowledge) pre-1983 Brewers baseball? If your first memory of the Brewers was 1983 - I get it and will let it slide. However - if you are an oldster, "What's with the cut-off date?"

[bork]

In the 36 years since 1982, the Brewers now have had 3 MVPs, 1 gold glove and 0 Cy Youngs

 

Nice cut-off date there. Are you a youngling who doesn't remember (and so doesn't want to acknowledge) pre-1983 Brewers baseball? If your first memory of the Brewers was 1983 - I get it and will let it slide. However - if you are an oldster, "What's with the cut-off date?"

 

Nope, I've seen it all as a Brewers fan. I'm just pointing out how bad things have been since 1982. Prior to that they had 2 MVPs, 2 Cy Youngs, and 9 gold gloves in 13 years.

[Pugger]

I think there was one ballot that didn't have CC on it at all. Explain that to me.

The ballot was designed in Broward County.

 

[RollieTime]

Well deserved for Yelich. That “extended hot streak” was almost unmatched in history. If his hot streak production becomes his norm, we will be in for a real treat the next 4 seasons. The sky is the limit with Yelich.

[dlk9s]

Well deserved for Yelich. That “extended hot streak” was almost unmatched in history. If his hot streak production becomes his norm, we will be in for a real treat the next 4 seasons. The sky is the limit with Yelich.

 

Just imagine what he will become if he masters the slap tag. We're talking Presidential Medal of Freedom status.

[rht]

Just reading through some of this thread. Cain was robbed of the Gold Glove and Yelich was absolutely the MVP. Was fine with Counsell not winning the Manager of the year for the following reasons which probably won't be popular on this board. Does everyone really think that in spring training Counsell sat there by himself and was like, this year I am going to do something the league has never done before, I'm going to only let the starters go through twice through the order no matter what, won't let them touch the third time through and use the bullpen to the max....I doubt it. This "strategy" in my mind was all front office and forced upon through the coaches with what they were given based on all the analytics available. I think this was the reason that Coles and DJ left as well. They weren't allowed to do their jobs. Sure they may have been given more money, but to be that close to the World Series with the same cast in play, something doesn't seem right. I think the voters saw this as well and didn't want to credit him for something that wasn't his idea. The Brewers also added Cain and Yelich which were two of the best players in the NL this year which doesn't help in a Managers case for improving the team, one being the MVP. I think Counsell kept a great clubhouse from what was in the media, I don't think his in game strategy was the greatest as there were a number of head scratching moments during the year(pitcher pinch hitting for a pitcher with 3 position players not used during the game, pitchers hitting then taken out the next inning without pitching the next inning on several occasions, not moving runners over in the NLCS when needed, letting a struggling JJ continue to pitch in tight games in the NLCS with giving up the game losing HR in Game 2, loading the bases with no outs in game 3, giving up the dagger in Game 7. I think the Brewers had a better team then the Dodgers and home field advantage and we ended up losing partly due to coaching decisions. I think if we had Bruce Bochy or even dare I say Tony Larussa coach in the NLCS, the Brewers would have been playing in the World Series. Neither of those managers would have let JJ touch the ball late in a tight game and they would have manufactured more runs knowing the bullpen we had. Just seems like alot of people are giving this pitching "strategy" credit to Counsell when I think it was driven by the Front Office, help prove me wrong on this. For that, I think Stearns was absolutely robbed of being the executive of the year.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

Bruce Bochy? Really? What has Bochy done without top of the rotation starters. He's had in his run Kevin Brown, Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, Barry Zito, Madison Bumgarner, Tim Hudson, Jake Peavy, Johnny Cueto. Maybe not all, but most were at the prime of their careers, All, were accomplished enough to know what it takes to get it done.

 

I'll give you Tony LaRussa. I always admired how he could run a bullpen, but I don't think he could have done it much if any better than Counsell.

 

I think Counsell was phenomenal with what he had to work with. I don't think you give him as much credit as I apparently do.

 

I don't think Jeffress what as horrible as you think in the playoffs. I was at some of the games. Yes, he, walked a couple of guys that killed him. The homer that barely scraped over the wall killed him. Most of the hits against him were off the end of the bat lazy loopers that found a hole.

[rht]

Bruce Bochy was an excellent in game manager, especially in the playoffs. He knew his teams strengths and knew what buttons to push pitching aside. How many aces did the Braves have for the better part of a decade and how many championships did they win, 1? Braves had 5 - 100 win seasons under Cox where they didn't make the WS. Bochy took 92 win, 94 win and 88 win teams to World Champions and one more time taking the Padres to the World Series. Its not like they were the 100 win Yankee or Braves teams of the late 90's.

 

Counsell managed very good during the regular season, I think his NLCS managing was subpar. JJ was struggling bad with his command in Game 2 7th inning as he walked in a runner and decided it would be a good idea to bring him back out for the 8th, we win that game its a whole different series.

 

I'm not saying I hate Counsell or that he's the worst, but I think I bring up valid points and I think too many people give him credit for the pitching "strategy" they went with this year.

[Eye Black]

The Brewers were named Baseball America’s “Organization of the Year”.

[sveumrules]

The Baseball Info Solutions blog has a pretty cool article today with GIFs comparing the range of the best/worst fielder at each OF position which includes Cain...

 

https://sportsinfosolutionsblog.com/2018/11/20/visualizing-the-range-of-mlbs-best-and-worst-outfielders-in-2018/

 

Would love it if the various defensive metrics published some sort of play log or opportunity log so we could get a better idea how all the different results are arrived at, but this is still a pretty interesting glimpse under the hood of DRS.