2018 Award Season

[KeithStone53151]

Without looking at results, i don't think CCs in game decision making were manager of the year worthy. Probably not top 3.

So then which managers in game decision making were manager of the year worthy in comparison since you are sure multiple ones were better?

 

Roberts and Bochy jump out at me right away. I don't scrutizine the decision making of other managers quite like I do for CC but I don't think CC is the best game day manager in the NL.

[FVBrewerFan]

Brian Snitker wins NL Manager of the Year. I can see why he won it, but I really feel Counsell deserved that award. Imo, Counsel did more with less and molded his coaching strategies perfectly for what the Brewers strengths and weaknesses were.

 

*and Joe Maddon received one first place vote by a Chicago reporter. What a joke.

 

Was he the same reporter that didn't vote for Counsell at all? Just curious if that cost Counsell the award, if that reporter didn't even vote for CC as 2nd or 3rd?

[KeithStone53151]

Brian Snitker wins NL Manager of the Year. I can see why he won it, but I really feel Counsell deserved that award. Imo, Counsel did more with less and molded his coaching strategies perfectly for what the Brewers strengths and weaknesses were.

 

*and Joe Maddon received one first place vote by a Chicago reporter. What a joke.

 

Was he the same reporter that didn't vote for Counsell at all? Just curious if that cost Counsell the award, if that reporter didn't even vote for CC as 2nd or 3rd?

 

I find that to be very likely, but those few points didn't swing the vote. I think I saw Snitker got 116 points and CC got 99. Adding a few points to CC would get him to 102 or 104, closer but not enough.

[pacopete4]

Yes, if Counsell wasn't such a bad in-game manager, we would've won 100+ and won the World Series. Just cannot believe how he pissed away this amazing roster he was given. Oh, wait... They exceeded every single expectation of every single stupid beat writer and TV analyst that there is out there. Hell, most of them cannot spell or pronounce our roster so I wouldn't expect them to vote for our players and coaches for the awards that they deserved. Good thing that literally no one cares about awards in pro baseball. Very few people even remember who won and who lost from year to year. The MLB is a complete and utter joke in how they promote their game, their players, and their teams. They could be doing much more. So much more.

[Outlander]

This is an award that definitely would have benefited Counsell if the voters were able to see how managers manage in the playoffs. Will be tough for Counsell to win this award now unless the Brewers take step backward and sticks around for the team to get better again.

[KeithStone53151]

It's going to be really fun when these yahoos vote for Baez for MVP. I believe CY Youngs announced tonight and MVP tomorrow. Degrom looks like a no brainer in the NL unless W/L gets too much weight. Snell probably get the AL award, though there's a chance Verlander sneaks in. MVP's should be Yelich and Mookie, though I'm expecting Mookie and Baez.

[hawing]

*and Joe Maddon received one first place vote by a Chicago reporter. What a joke.

My eyeroll is reserved specifically for the Maddon voter. Ultimately, I'm accepting of Snitker getting the nod, as the Braves were likely perceived as going nowhere in 2018 and they went...somewhere. I'm glad Craig was a close second.

 

If Baez is named MVP over Yelich...riots.

[pacopete4]

Couldn't tell ya the radio guy that mentioned how dumb it is that they prolong this award season but I agree with him. Why not have a televised awards ceremony the night before the first game of the World Series? Put on a show and celebrate your players, managers, teams, etc... Announce the next year's HOF class as well. Make it a celebration of the game. The NFL for as lousy as their product has become on the field does it so well off the field. Figure it out MLB.

[jerichoholicninja]

Couldn't tell ya the radio guy that mentioned how dumb it is that they prolong this award season but I agree with him. Why not have a televised awards ceremony the night before the first game of the World Series? Put on a show and celebrate your players, managers, teams, etc... Announce the next year's HOF class as well. Make it a celebration of the game. The NFL for as lousy as their product has become on the field does it so well off the field. Figure it out MLB.

 

MLB needs to do something newsworthy this time of year.

[TURBO]

Couldn't tell ya the radio guy that mentioned how dumb it is that they prolong this award season but I agree with him. Why not have a televised awards ceremony the night before the first game of the World Series? Put on a show and celebrate your players, managers, teams, etc... Announce the next year's HOF class as well. Make it a celebration of the game. The NFL for as lousy as their product has become on the field does it so well off the field. Figure it out MLB.

 

There might be players that are scheduled to play in the World Series getting awards. Not the best time to do it if we'd expect those players to be at an awards ceremony the night before the World Series is to start.

[Boomer5]

Yes, if Counsell wasn't such a bad in-game manager, we would've won 100+ and won the World Series. Just cannot believe how he pissed away this amazing roster he was given. Oh, wait... They exceeded every single expectation of every single stupid beat writer and TV analyst that there is out there. Hell, most of them cannot spell or pronounce our roster so I wouldn't expect them to vote for our players and coaches for the awards that they deserved. Good thing that literally no one cares about awards in pro baseball. Very few people even remember who won and who lost from year to year. The MLB is a complete and utter joke in how they promote their game, their players, and their teams. They could be doing much more. So much more.

 

+1

[pacopete4]

Couldn't tell ya the radio guy that mentioned how dumb it is that they prolong this award season but I agree with him. Why not have a televised awards ceremony the night before the first game of the World Series? Put on a show and celebrate your players, managers, teams, etc... Announce the next year's HOF class as well. Make it a celebration of the game. The NFL for as lousy as their product has become on the field does it so well off the field. Figure it out MLB.

 

There might be players that are scheduled to play in the World Series getting awards. Not the best time to do it if we'd expect those players to be at an awards ceremony the night before the World Series is to start.

 

The NFL has no issue with what they do. Plenty of times the celebrations still happens with their MVP held up in a hotel room waiting to play in the big game.

[MadScientist]

I'm guessing the voters looked at the Brewers record last year, noted the additions of Yelich, Cain and Chacin, and said that the improvement should have been expected (the preseason analysis was soooo long ago). They didn't follow the Brewers and see all the player and position juggling that went on to get production out of that lineup. They didn't notice how most of the starters regressed from last year leaving a rotation that held together by smoke an mirrors. How the bullpen moves were done to sacrifice some games so that they had the pitchers they needed to use when they had a small lead late.

 

Admittedly I didn't follow the Braves at all. They were a surprise team, but looking at the stats, it seems that once Acuna was up, they more or less had the same lineup day in and day out (except splitting catcher duties), and mostly threw the same starting 5 out there as well, who would at least get into the 6th and then turn things over to 1 inning guys. Maybe somebody can tell me something special he did, otherwise it sounds like run of the mill, let them play managing.

 

Atlanta under-performed Pythagorean by 2 games, Brewers over-performed by 5. They chose the wrong guy.

[Boomer5]

I'm guessing the voters looked at the Brewers record last year, noted the additions of Yelich, Cain and Chacin, and said that the improvement should have been expected (the preseason analysis was soooo long ago). They didn't follow the Brewers and see all the player and position juggling that went on to get production out of that lineup. They didn't notice how most of the starters regressed from last year leaving a rotation that held together by smoke an mirrors. How the bullpen moves were done to sacrifice some games so that they had the pitchers they needed to use when they had a small lead late.

 

Admittedly I didn't follow the Braves at all. They were a surprise team, but looking at the stats, it seems that once Acuna was up, they more or less had the same lineup day in and day out (except splitting catcher duties), and mostly threw the same starting 5 out there as well, who would at least get into the 6th and then turn things over to 1 inning guys. Maybe somebody can tell me something special he did, otherwise it sounds like run of the mill, let them play managing.

 

Atlanta under-performed Pythagorean by 2 games, Brewers over-performed by 5. They chose the wrong guy.

 

Definitely. By all measures Counsel pushed the right buttons and got the most wins any manager could have out of this roster.

[sveumrules]

Looks like Hader got one fourth place & two fifth place votes for NL Cy Young, good enough for 7th overall.

 

Agree that Counsell was a better candidate than Snitker, but also not surprised the writers whiffed it. I guess if he wants to win next year we'll just have to break the 2001 Mariners record & win 117 games.

[Lathund]

Would've liked CC to win it, but I don't have any issue whatsoever with Snitker winning. I mean the award in general is stupid, and we really have no clue at all what impact the manager actually has, but judging by how that award is usually decided Snitker was a fine choice. As would CC have been.

 

Also in regard to deGrom's much deserved Cy Young (Got 29/30 first place votes), some more data to illustrate just how amazing it was. And how stupid and misleading pitcher Wins are. Taken from a Grant Brisbee piece:

 

"In deGrom’s worst start of 2018, he allowed four runs in six innings. It’s the only time he allowed four runs in a start. It’s so, so easy for a starting pitcher to allow a bloop and a blast in one inning, followed by two doubles and a single in another, without anyone wondering what’s wrong. Allowing a bloop and a blast is what pitchers do. Sometimes they nibble on a 3-2 pitch, and sometimes their defense can’t make the great play that will bail them out. Happens. Oh, my, how it happens.

 

Except it didn’t happen to deGrom. In 29 out of 32 starts, deGrom threw a quality start (6+ innings pitched, 3 or fewer earned runs), and that’s remarkable, but it still undersells him. We’ll have to invent a new stat, a step up. Instead of the quality start, let’s search for the dominant start, in which a starter throws at least seven innings with two runs or fewer allowed. deGrom did this in 18 out of his 32 starts. Only two starters had more games with seven innings pitched period. deGrom had more starts with seven innings pitched than the Brewers.

 

That’s not enough, though. We need to invent another new metric, the badass start, which is when a starter throws at least eight innings with one run or fewer. deGrom had five of them. Twenty-two different MLB teams didn’t have as many. The Brewers and Rangers didn’t have any."

 

Jacob deGrom had a 2.71 ERA in his 9 losses, a 1.62 ERA in his 13 ND, and a 0.89 ERA in his 10 wins. Imagine a league-average offense in those games. Or hell, imagine one of the worst offenses producing the average runs/game total for the year, and he'd have a ton more wins. Or imagine if he had Hader and Jeffress to close out the games. The arguments made that he didn't deserve it because of his low amount of Wins were among the dumbest things I've seen or heard all year. And that's saying a lot.

[adambr2]

...but obviously people are very opinionated about how we went about using pitchers etc. and I don't think that was very beneficial to us.

 

We came within one game of the World Series with Jhoulys Chacin and Wade Miley as our best starters. If there are actually people out there that voted against Counsell because of how he used his pitching staff, they are buffoons who should be stripped of their voting rights.

[MrTPlush]

...but obviously people are very opinionated about how we went about using pitchers etc. and I don't think that was very beneficial to us.

 

We came within one game of the World Series with Jhoulys Chacin and Wade Miley as our best starters. If there are actually people out there that voted against Counsell because of how he used his pitching staff, they are buffoons who should be stripped of their voting rights.

 

Don't kill the messenger.

 

And yes...most are buffoons. I am sure you knew that though. They prove it yearly.

[Point Beer Is Best]

So where is everyone planning to meet up tonight to riot if Yelich doesn't win the MVP?

[Boomer5]

...but obviously people are very opinionated about how we went about using pitchers etc. and I don't think that was very beneficial to us.

 

We came within one game of the World Series with Jhoulys Chacin and Wade Miley as our best starters. If there are actually people out there that voted against Counsell because of how he used his pitching staff, they are buffoons who should be stripped of their voting rights.

 

Another +1 for this post.

 

Chacin and Miley were his best starters. Let that sink in.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Any award that is issued via votes (people's opinions) will always lend itself to crappy results. There could be two guys dead set on not giving CC a 1st place vote because he sassed them in a post-game once in April. When you leave it up to human decision that is the kind of scenario that can unfold.

 

I think there was one ballot that didn't have CC on it at all. Explain that to me.

[MadScientist]

I think there was one ballot that didn't have CC on it at all. Explain that to me.

The ballot was designed in Broward County.

[KeithStone53151]

Any award that is issued via votes (people's opinions) will always lend itself to crappy results. There could be two guys dead set on not giving CC a 1st place vote because he sassed them in a post-game once in April. When you leave it up to human decision that is the kind of scenario that can unfold.

 

I think there was one ballot that didn't have CC on it at all. Explain that to me.

 

Probably the yahoo that gave Maddon a 1st place vote...this reeks of Cub-caliber stupidity.

[sveumrules]

I think there was one ballot that didn't have CC on it at all. Explain that to me.

 

Looks like that would have been Brian Golden (LA Chapter) of the Antelope Valley Press (whatever that is) who went Snitker / Shildt / Black.

 

Not sure if they've done this in the past & I missed it but the BBWAA website lists every voter's full ballot for each award. Kind of interesting to see who voted for who in which order.

 

Like how about Mikako Niwa (also LA Chapter) of Sankei Sports who went Buehler / Acuña / Yoshihisa Hirano for NL ROY, leaving Soto off his ballot entirely.

 

Or Dick Scanlon of the Lakeland Ledger (TB Chapter) who went Andujar / Joey Wendle / Ryan Yarbrough for AL ROY, skipping over Ohtani.

[KeithStone53151]

Thanks for sharing, I find it interesting to see how people voted in close races. For instance, the AL CY young...I find TB writers voting a bit suspect. Having Verlander 3rd and 4th. Bruce Levine is officially too stupid to be allowed to vote. LA writers generally seemed to have an axe to grind against CC, especially considering how well he managed the Brewers against them in the playoffs. The cases of weird voting were few and far between though, most of these writers had similar and very reasonable/defendable ballot choices.