UWGB Considering Adding FCS Football

[nodakfan17]

This is a link to a recent Green Bay Press Gazette article.

 

It sounds like they are considering a feasibility study. The AD mentions it would take a minimum of 6 years to field a team and they would require some major facilities upgrades.

 

UWGB’s enrollment has increased from 5,000 to nearly 8,000 in the last 10 years and they will be opening a new engineering school in 2019, as well as adding some new graduate programs.

 

I have no hopes of them dethroning Alabama any time soon, but have always wondered why they don’t have the athletic profile of a school like Akron or Toledo. They’ve been fortunate to field some decent teams with the smallest budget in the Horizon League.

 

Count me in for season tickets if they can find a way to make this happen.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greenbaypressgazette.com/amp/1739232002

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

This is interesting, but I wouldn't do it if I were UWGB. A few reasons:

 

1) It's really hard for programs like this to succeed. Even really good FCS schools (like App. State) have recently jumped to FBS because of how tough it is financially.

 

2) I think the health concerns about football and CTE are inherent in the game. I don't think rules or new equipment or tackling programs are going to fix the problem. I'm with Chris Borland here. Given that, I don't know that I would, as the leader of an institution supposed to be about education, volunteer to run a program very likely to have such serious mental and physical health risks.

 

3) Schools like UWGB seem to me to be best served by investing their athletic dollars in basketball. You're just much more likely to earn your money and application pool increases by winning one game in March than by advancing in the FCS playoffs. Plus, the ratio of investment to revenue is a little easier to maintain. This is the Gonzaga model, the Creighton model, the Marquette model. I think it would be easier for GB to become Gonzaga than to become Alabama or even Wisconsin.

 

Certainly, football would bring some Saturday excitement to GB, but I would just worry it would be coming on the wrong side of the trendline for the sport, not to mention the health risks and financial commitment it would take to get the thing going.

[lcbj68c]

 

2) I think the health concerns about football and CTE are inherent in the game. I don't think rules or new equipment or tackling programs are going to fix the problem. I'm with Chris Borland here. Given that, I don't know that I would, as the leader of an institution supposed to be about education, volunteer to run a program very likely to have such serious mental and physical health risks.

 

Certainly, football would bring some Saturday excitement to GB, but I would just worry it would be coming on the wrong side of the trendline for the sport, not to mention the health risks and financial commitment it would take to get the thing going.

 

Do you suspect there will come a day when American Football will no longer exist, given these things you mention?

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

 

2) I think the health concerns about football and CTE are inherent in the game. I don't think rules or new equipment or tackling programs are going to fix the problem. I'm with Chris Borland here. Given that, I don't know that I would, as the leader of an institution supposed to be about education, volunteer to run a program very likely to have such serious mental and physical health risks.

 

Certainly, football would bring some Saturday excitement to GB, but I would just worry it would be coming on the wrong side of the trendline for the sport, not to mention the health risks and financial commitment it would take to get the thing going.

 

Do you suspect there will come a day when American Football will no longer exist, given these things you mention?

 

You know, I really don't know. I watched football for a long time and still watch a lot of D3 and a little FBS, but I haven't watched a pro game in 3 years. At a certain point, I couldn't deal with the cognitive dissonance. D3 seems to have a little bit different mentality overall (and my alma mater was run by John Gagliardi, the recently-deceased, winningest coach in NCAA history and the guy who outlawed tackling in practice and refused to use words like "hit" or "kill"), but even that still doesn't feel completely right. Again, that's just me, and I really don't want to seem (and certainly not be) preachy here. It just got to a point where I couldn't avoid thinking about the NFL's active role in covering up the game's contributions to CTE.

 

When I first stopped watching, my sense is friends and family thought I was a little nuts. In the last few years, that perception seems to have changed, though.

 

I guess my gut tells me that there will be always be an audience for football. It's so deeply ingrained in the culture, and it is literally the highest rated thing on American television (forget highest rated sport; it's the highest rated anything--the Super Bowl gets ratings rivaled only by the freakin' moon landing, and it happens once a year). There's just too far to fall for it to disappear completely anytime soon. But I do feel like we're going to be coming to a point in the coming decades where football is more of a niche sport, something with a big regional following in some places but without the national cache of every day, every week, year-round sports media headlines.

 

I'd be pretty surprised if football was still the nation's most popular sport in 2038.

[homer]

Wonder if it would hurt UW. Guys that walk on at UW would most likely be scholie players at UWGB.

[nodakfan17]

Wonder if it would hurt UW. Guys that walk on at UW would most likely be scholie players at UWGB.

I don’t think so. The article suggests that the program would be ‘non-scholarship’ (there are a few non-scholarship leagues in FCS). If anything, it might pull the best players from the WIAC schools.

[nodakfan17]

On the health concern, I don’t think CTE would be a liability for a brand new program. The risk is known. Waivers can be signed. There are still plenty of students willing to assume that risk for a) a slim chance at the NFL or b) so they can impress pretty girls. The long-established programs are the ones who should be concerned about CTE liability.

 

As far as whether or not it makes sense for UWGB, I don’t know, but I applaud them for looking into it. Athletics help drive admissions and donations, even if that doesn’t show up in an athletic department’s Profit / Loss statement.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

On the health concern, I don’t think CTE would be a liability for a brand new program. The risk is known. Waivers can be signed. There are still plenty of students willing to assume that risk for a) a slim chance at the NFL or b) so they can impress pretty girls. The long-established programs are the ones who should be concerned about CTE liability.

 

As far as whether or not it makes sense for UWGB, I don’t know, but I applaud them for looking into it. Athletics help drive admissions and donations, even if that doesn’t show up in an athletic department’s Profit / Loss statement.

 

You may be right. It's just, given what we know now, it sure seems to me like the decision to play high-level football puts one at A LOT of risk for cognitive impairment down the road. If I were GB, I wouldn't want to put myself in a position where I'm basically asking folks to make a short-sighted decision. As you say, people who sign these waivers will do so in the hopes of overcoming long odds (1) or for a really shallow reason (2). It might not be a legal liability, but it sure seems like ethically shaky ground for a university to ask young men to risk their long-term mental health.

 

You've just got to do a whole lot of compartmentalization to square the mission of a university with football. Just IMO, of course, but I wouldn't personally be able to square that circle if I were a university administrator. The numbers on CTE are alarmingly high for college-aged players, 48 of 53 brains according to the JAMA study. I don't think the risk is really 91 percent for college players, but even if it's down to ten or fifteen percent, that's still an unacceptable risk for me given what the mission of a university is supposed to be.

[MrTPlush]

I don't think there is any chance this happens.

[nodakfan17]

Realistically, I’d guess there’s a 10-20% this happens, but I still applaud them for thinking big and finding ways to keep talented kids in Wisconsin. I’m not referring to football players, but rather students who might value big time football (relative term) as part of their college experience.

[3and2Fastball]

Too bad UWGB won't add Baseball. To have only one D1 Baseball team in Wisconsin is sad.

[jerichoholicninja]

Too bad UWGB won't add Baseball. To have only one D1 Baseball team in Wisconsin is sad.

 

Why would any D1 talent come to Wisconsin to play in our crap weather? At least UW-M plays in Miller Park sometimes.

[pacopete4]

Too bad UWGB won't add Baseball. To have only one D1 Baseball team in Wisconsin is sad.

 

Why would any D1 talent come to Wisconsin to play in our crap weather? At least UW-M plays in Miller Park sometimes.

 

Gophers have a program.

[nodakfan17]

The Horizon League sponsors baseball, so there would at least be a slate of home games for UWGB to count on every year. Still, the weather would be a significant obstacle - not just for scheduling, but also for fans and recruiting.

[jerichoholicninja]

Too bad UWGB won't add Baseball. To have only one D1 Baseball team in Wisconsin is sad.

 

Why would any D1 talent come to Wisconsin to play in our crap weather? At least UW-M plays in Miller Park sometimes.

 

Gophers have a program.

 

They also play some games in the Twins stadium, which while also outside, is a lot nicer than playing next to Lake Michigan in the middle of March with a 20 MPH coming off the lake putting the wind chill around 15 degrees.

[DHonks]

On the health concern, I don’t think CTE would be a liability for a brand new program. The risk is known. Waivers can be signed.

 

Cigarettes were shown to be hazardous to health and lead to cancer in the 1950s, but that didn't stop people from starting smoking after that. And it also didn't stop states from suing Big Tobacco in the 00s.

[JimH5]

Wisconsin seems to have no shortage of high school players willing to play non-scholarship football in college. Whitewater, LaCrosse, Oshkosh all have over 100 players listed on their rosters. Presumably all of those guys are paying full tuition. I don't know if they pay athletic fees to be on the teams.

 

So, as a way to boost enrollment, it might make sense to have a football program that is ostensibly playing a notch above a club sport.

 

I don't know how much it costs to run a football program. I suspect they do need some fan support, and one thing that's a concern in CFB is a drop in attendance, especially students. Add in the health concerns, the challenge of starting a low level program from scratch, and the willingness of the Green Bay community to turn out, and I think it's pretty unlikely that they'll play. But you never know.

[reillymcshane]

 

2) I think the health concerns about football and CTE are inherent in the game. I don't think rules or new equipment or tackling programs are going to fix the problem. I'm with Chris Borland here. Given that, I don't know that I would, as the leader of an institution supposed to be about education, volunteer to run a program very likely to have such serious mental and physical health risks.

 

Certainly, football would bring some Saturday excitement to GB, but I would just worry it would be coming on the wrong side of the trendline for the sport, not to mention the health risks and financial commitment it would take to get the thing going.

 

Do you suspect there will come a day when American Football will no longer exist, given these things you mention?

I don't think it will come to that - but it is diminishing.

 

My old school district recently did not have an 8th grade team after having one for decades. And at the HS level, they won't have separate freshman and sophomore teams.

 

The health issue is certainly on people's minds. You hear it all the time from parents. But I think the other thing is kids simply have more options. Track, cross country, gymnatstics, volleyball, soccer, football, baseball, basketball, swimming, tennis, la crosse, hockey, wrestling, etc., etc. Heck, rock climbing is a sport in Colorado; kids get scholarships for it.

 

And that leads to more specialization as some kids focus on one sport to get really good at it - and thus get some sort of scholarship.

 

All of it means that there will be fewer kids for football. Again, I doubt it will go away as a whole - but it certainly could go away in communities with smaller populations as there are just not enough bodies to fill the roster.

 

I also don't think it's out of the question that some schools abandon football for health reasons. But I think they will be few and far between. It will likely happen - just not a lot.

[nodakfan17]

The average attendance for an FCS football game in 2017 was just over 8,200. UWGB men’s basketball draws 4,000 for a weekend home game. 8,000 for football doesn’t seem like a stretch. Green Bay would also be an above average market by FCS standards. NDSU, the reigning FCS champs, play in Fargo (whose metro area is smaller than Green Bay’s).

 

Interestingly, Vince Leaving Lombardi once advised UWGB to start a soccer program instead of football. He was right about soccer’s growth, but that did not translate to much revenue or increased interest in the school.