Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)

[rickh150]

Nuts if we take on his big salary when he performed so poorly.

Worst looking batter against any sort of righty with mid to high 90's heat. Nice D, though, and couldn't possibly be worse at bat than what he showed last season with us, yet really this should be an easy one.

And there are a few better veteran 2B for potentially less $ on two or three year deals.

And we have Hiura in the wings.

And we have Shaw if need be...

 

The problem is they would need two or three year deals. That is a roster spot being used on someone who may only start for half a season. Using that spot on someone to play the same role as Perez or Dubon means losing a spot to protect someone on the 40 man roster next year. Or to risk losing someone who is out of options and equally valuable for less money. For me Schoop's main value is that it is only a one year commitment.

 

 

I wouldn't pay Schoop the money. We could do more with it- either get another 2B or use it for raises elsewhere and by time for Hiura.

Also, I'm all for someone better taking over for Perez.

[coolhandluke121]

To me it's just like they said at the end of the season. They're going to try to figure out why he was such a disaster and whether they can do anything to fix it, and then they'll make a decision. Personally I'd gladly take him at $10m if he reverts to his career averages, all things considered. No point to handing out 2-3 deals for one of the other guys who has all kinds of question marks himself.

 

It did look like a little more than a slump, but in recent memory we've seen young guys like Segura, Gomez, and Arcia look almost as bad before coming out of it.

[clancyphile]

To me it's just like they said at the end of the season. They're going to try to figure out why he was such a disaster and whether they can do anything to fix it, and then they'll make a decision. Personally I'd gladly take him at $10m if he reverts to his career averages, all things considered. No point to handing out 2-3 deals for one of the other guys who has all kinds of question marks himself.

 

It did look like a little more than a slump, but in recent memory we've seen young guys like Segura, Gomez, and Arcia look almost as bad before coming out of it.

 

If he did have those injury problems earlier, he may have not only been pressing, but he also may have been less than 100%.

 

As I said, the BABIP was quite low when compared to his 2015-2017 numbers. I think he will rebound.

[Thurston Fluff]

Nuts if we take on his big salary when he performed so poorly.

Worst looking batter against any sort of righty with mid to high 90's heat. Nice D, though, and couldn't possibly be worse at bat than what he showed last season with us, yet really this should be an easy one.

And there are a few better veteran 2B for potentially less $ on two or three year deals.

And we have Hiura in the wings.

And we have Shaw if need be...

 

The problem is they would need two or three year deals. That is a roster spot being used on someone who may only start for half a season. Using that spot on someone to play the same role as Perez or Dubon means losing a spot to protect someone on the 40 man roster next year. Or to risk losing someone who is out of options and equally valuable for less money. For me Schoop's main value is that it is only a one year commitment.

 

 

I wouldn't pay Schoop the money. We could do more with it- either get another 2B or use it for raises elsewhere and by time for Hiura.

Also, I'm all for someone better taking over for Perez.

 

 

I don't think we could realistically do more with it. Obviously you think it is possible to pay someone of better value than Schoop or Perez for one year who would be fine with a bench role on a couple months at bench player salary but who are these people? Can you name a single guy you think would be willing to do that? Keep in mind you have to know that guy is out there before the arby tender deadline. You can't just wait out the market if you really want to make sure there isn't a black hole at second again next season. Well, you can, but I am not in favor or it for the one year $10 million it would cost. That really isn't a whole lot of money in the big picture.

Realistically I don't think anyone better than Perez is going to settle for a bench role for one year and less than $10 million. Certainly not one willing to commit before the Brewers have to make a decision on Schoop. I would be all for it if there is mind you. In theory if there was someone who was going to do that I would be happy to have him and say goodbye to Schoop. I just don't think that is something free agents of any value would go for at this point of the offseason.

[rickh150]

The money is the biggie to me. If he was getting 1 or 2 mil, maybe he would be in the mix for playing time in 2019.

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't think you can get a average major league middle infielder for 1-2 million in the free agent market. If we can, I am all for it. If we can't, then we have to look at trades, be willing to trust in house help or scrap heap guys. That can be done. There are times and places to do just that. But it is a crapshoot. The time and place is more fitting for a team not in a position to win next season than one that is. Schoop isn't guaranteed to be a success, but I think his less than stellar performance with us so far has tainted our view of him somewhat. He is an average, albeit erratic, middle infielder. He would be overpaid next season in all likelihood. Normally I am against that. I do think one year overapys are sometimes worthwhile. I think this is one of those times.

[clancyphile]

I don't think you can get a average major league middle infielder for 1-2 million in the free agent market. If we can, I am all for it. If we can't, then we have to look at trades, be willing to trust in house help or scrap heap guys. That can be done. There are times and places to do just that. But it is a crapshoot. The time and place is more fitting for a team not in a position to win next season than one that is. Schoop isn't guaranteed to be a success, but I think his less than stellar performance with us so far has tainted our view of him somewhat. He is an average, albeit erratic, middle infielder. He would be overpaid next season in all likelihood. Normally I am against that. I do think one year overapys are sometimes worthwhile. I think this is one of those times.

 

Plus, if Schoop does rebound to his 2015-2017 form, then the $10 million is less of an overpay.

 

The ideal scenario is for Hiura to be forcing the issue, with Schoop rebounding to close to his 2017 form. Once you have that, the Brewers will have options.

[brewmann04]

I starting to think we keep him.

[dlk9s]

I'm pretty entertained that we're about to hit 160 posts in a thread about Jonathan Schoop.

[rickh150]

Still not sure why this is a debate.... he played horribly for us. Just too much $ for a small market team, even for just one year.

Also, if we nontender him, we have options internally, with trades, and FA.

[MNBrew]

^^Right, but there's no guarantee any of those options are any better than the revolving door options we kept trying last year with such poor results.

 

In a nutshell, it's potentially as much of a risk not keeping Schoop as it is keeping him. $10M-ish for potentially horrid results on one side of the scale, 2017 MVP-race caliber results on the other side. If our crystal ball had the answer, this decision would be a no-brainer.

 

In the spirit of the old '70s game show, To Tell the Truth, "Will the real 2019 Jonathan Schoop please stand up?"

[rickh150]

Another byproduct of this decision....

Offering him arby puts added weight on Stearns shoulders with more salary and less flexibility. DS would be even more limited in making moves or adding salary before most of the offseason action even begins. A strength, his wheeling and dealing, would be hindered. Some options to potentially improve the team probably wouldn't be off the table, but the next moves might be.

 

Signing Schoop means he is the 2B to start the season, right? Shaw is penciled in at 3B. Really, the whole lineup is set outside of a blockbuster move for a catcher. Are we ok with the same boom or bust offense? For me, we think more of getting a plus contact bat at 3B OR 2B in the top/middle of the lineup. Stearns gets the luxury of having some time to get that done. Whether that is a Lowrie on a 2 or 3 year deal or a DS trade, getting a solid bat would be a top goal. If it isn't there between now and spring training, so be it. We go with Perez or some other temporary option.

 

If we could offer Schoop arby in Feb. as a last resort instead of by the end of the week, I'd see it more your way.

[DHonks]

just remember, that we can also offer Schoop arby, then trade him later or cut him without full financial ramifications. Cutting him in Spring Training would only cost $1.5-2.5 million.

[rickh150]

just remember, that we can also offer Schoop arby, then trade him later or cut him without full financial ramifications. Cutting him in Spring Training would only cost $1.5-2.5 million.

 

Thanks for the info. This would ease my concern if we do offer arby.

[MNBrew]

Another byproduct of this decision....

Offering him arby puts added weight on Stearns shoulders with more salary and less flexibility. DS would be even more limited in making moves or adding salary before most of the offseason action even begins. A strength, his wheeling and dealing, would be hindered. Some options to potentially improve the team probably wouldn't be off the table, but the next moves might be.

 

Signing Schoop means he is the 2B to start the season, right? Shaw is penciled in at 3B. Really, the whole lineup is set outside of a blockbuster move for a catcher. Are we ok with the same boom or bust offense? For me, we think more of getting a plus contact bat at 3B OR 2B in the top/middle of the lineup. Stearns gets the luxury of having some time to get that done. Whether that is a Lowrie on a 2 or 3 year deal or a DS trade, getting a solid bat would be a top goal. If it isn't there between now and spring training, so be it. We go with Perez or some other temporary option.

 

If we could offer Schoop arby in Feb. as a last resort instead of by the end of the week, I'd see it more your way.

I don't know if the bolded part is directed toward my remarks or someone else's -- and not that it really matters.

 

Personally, I was already too wary of his 2018 production when we made the trade -- he was only the reigning AL Player of the Week, not like he was having anything near a good year -- and his performance in MIL for the balance of 2018 did nothing to elevate my trust in him.

 

If it's my call, I non-tender him or find a way to move him to another team who might value him more (or who might be better equipped financially to stomach a $10M-ish mistake).

 

Yeah, he might become this year's Scooter. Or he might be this year's version of disaster averted (like Villar thankfully rejecting that 5-yr./$20M-ish contract a couple years back).

 

Offering him arby then cutting him by the end of ST is indeed a lesser risk -- one I might be willing to take -- but the accompanying risk of doing that is having very limited options available at the end of March compared to what may be available in the first half of the off-season.

[502 to Right]

I'm increasingly thinking they will tender Schoop and hope he rebounds. If he doesn't, you bring Hiura up in June. I don't see the Brewers investing in a 2-3 year contract for a 2B when Hiura is close. They only need a 1 year bridge.

 

And when you get down to it, where else are the Brewers going to spend the cash in 2019? SP? Maybe but the highest priced guys are likely not coming to Milwaukee anyway.

 

 

Edit - I'm rethinking this. I think they non-tender Schoop but see if they can bring him back at a lower salary than he would have gotten in arbitration. In other words, they'd be interesting in keeping him for 2019 but not at $8.5+ million. I don't see Schoop having a robust market elsewhere so this strategy could pay off.

[NYChez]

7 out of his last 8 months his OBP has been .266 or below. If his OBP is .266 at the end of April, do you keep running him out there? Will his salary be a factor re: how long they stick with him?

[MNBrew]

^^ Exactly this. Maybe he rebounds. Maybe the offseason helps clear his head & maybe gets him to actually improve his approach..... Or maybe he's just as lousy as last year, you know it after a month, and you're stuck paying him for the next 5 months to do nothing or go away.

 

I'm habitually an optimist, but I'd far rather just move on from Schoop.

[Mr Southpaw]

Schoop needs to take less money to make this work. If he is non-tendered, no one will sign him for $10 million a year. If they do, they are not very smart. He is in the position of "You have to show me you can still hit." with GMs.

[Boomer5]

They desperately needed offense vs LA and Schoop wasn’t used. That should tell us all they think about him, let alone taking up most of our payroll flexibility.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Schoop needs to take less money to make this work. If he is non-tendered, no one will sign him for $10 million a year. If they do, they are not very smart. He is in the position of "You have to show me you can still hit." with GMs.

 

The convenience in tendering Schoop is that it's only a one year commitment. If he is non-tendered, you are correct that there is no way anyone is going to pay him $10 million/year. But ... given his age and history, he'd probably be looking at a 3-4 year deal at at $21-28 million. The per year average is substantially less, but the overall commitment is much greater if he tanks.

 

That said, I would 100% non-tender him and move on. Watching his at-bats in September and October were sickening. He just had absolutely no clue. Could he rebound? Yes, of course, but only to a degree. He's always going to be a streaky hitter, and while there may be stretches of the season where he's hot and carries the offense, there are also likely to be longer stretches where he just has no clue up there. This offense is frustrating enough to watch as it is without adding another hitter like that to the fray.

[Boomer5]

Schoop needs to take less money to make this work. If he is non-tendered, no one will sign him for $10 million a year. If they do, they are not very smart. He is in the position of "You have to show me you can still hit." with GMs.

 

The convenience in tendering Schoop is that it's only a one year commitment. If he is non-tendered, you are correct that there is no way anyone is going to pay him $10 million/year. But ... given his age and history, he'd probably be looking at a 3-4 year deal at at $21-28 million. The per year average is substantially less, but the overall commitment is much greater if he tanks.

 

That said, I would 100% non-tender him and move on. Watching his at-bats in September and October were sickening. He just had absolutely no clue. Could he rebound? Yes, of course, but only to a degree. He's always going to be a streaky hitter, and while there may be stretches of the season where he's hot and carries the offense, there are also likely to be longer stretches where he just has no clue up there. This offense is frustrating enough to watch as it is without adding another hitter like that to the fray.

 

Agreed. The Yankees could make a $10M bet, the Brewers can not because that number would for all reasonable purposes fill our budget.

 

If they pay him, we are pretty much all in on Schoop becoming his 2017 version for our roster upgrades.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Dietrich clearing waivers probably signals a non tender for Schoop. Whether he's the guy they sign or not, its one more addition to a crowded field that can play 2B. I think Stearns lands Dietrich though. That versailtity, his numbers away from Marlins Park, and his LH bat make too much sense. I think there's a good chance Dietrich is signed before Friday's tender deadline.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I still think the plan for Schoop is to tender him and then try to negotiate a palatable contract amount for 2019 before his arbitration hearing arrives. He made $10M based off a very good year in 2017, 2018 was poor. The Brewers could submit a lowball arbitration offer, and Schoop's camp would be wise not to try and submit a figure much over $10M - then the two sides could hopefully iron out a deal at or even slightly below $10M to avoid the hearing. If that doesn't materialize, the Brewers could either win the hearing and have Schoop for $8-10M, or lose the hearing and have him potentially at $12M. If they lose the hearing and don't want to pay him that amount, there are plenty of routes they could take at 2B that would be solid options and include just cutting Schoop during spring training and paying him the $1.5-2M salary. Schoop's team would be wise not to let things get that far, because he'd probably have a difficult time finding another team to sign him for a value anywhere near the $10M he made in 2018 right before the 2019 season starts.

 

Tendering Schoop and taking this approach gives the Brewers time to sort their 2B situation out, and I think it's in both sides' best interest to make it happen.

[RollieTime]

Dietrich clearing waivers probably signals a non tender for Schoop. Whether he's the guy they sign or not, its one more addition to a crowded field that can play 2B. I think Stearns lands Dietrich though. That versailtity, his numbers away from Marlins Park, and his LH bat make too much sense. I think there's a good chance Dietrich is signed before Friday's tender deadline.

 

At least when they sign Cabrera, everyone will be well versed as to why.

 

The second quote is from a different thread.

 

I find it highly unlikely that the Brewers will be signing both guys. I could see one of them being of interest to Milwaukee, specifically Dietrich, but not both ending up here. I am curious why you believe that the Brewers will be signing Dietrich on top of signing Asdrubal Cabrera?