Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)

[Litehouse]

Theoretically, if we keep Schoop for next year, give him a QO after 2019 and he signs as a FA elsewhere, we would get a compensation pick for him, correct?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Theoretically, if we keep Schoop for next year, give him a QO after 2019 and he signs as a FA elsewhere, we would get a compensation pick for him, correct?

 

Yes ... but that is assuming he is valuable enough to warrant a qualifying offer. That is far from a guarantee.

[502 to Right]

Assuming Schoop is tendered a contract this year, he'd would have to play at an elite level to get a QO in 2019.

[MrTPlush]

Theoretically, if we keep Schoop for next year, give him a QO after 2019 and he signs as a FA elsewhere, we would get a compensation pick for him, correct?

 

Yes ... but that is assuming he is valuable enough to warrant a qualifying offer. That is far from a guarantee.

 

It is pretty close to a guarantee....that we are not going to offer him a QO. That is a $18mil payday...ain't no way.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Theoretically, if we keep Schoop for next year, give him a QO after 2019 and he signs as a FA elsewhere, we would get a compensation pick for him, correct?

 

Yes ... but that is assuming he is valuable enough to warrant a qualifying offer. That is far from a guarantee.

 

It is pretty close to a guarantee....that we are not going to offer him a QO. That is a $18mil payday...ain't no way.

 

He'd have to put together an All-Star-level season for it to even be a consideration.

[Boomer5]

With the Derek Johnson news, my concerm with bringing back Schoop is about zero.

[NievesNoNO]

I think I'd roll with Schoop at 2B to start the season. He's proven when he's right, he can hit MLB pitching. Yes, he was awful this season but two years ago he's easily a top 10 second baseman. They also have the luxury of Hiura potentially being able to replace him mid season, Dubon, Perez and Shaw could slide over there if needed now (assuming then they acquired a 3B)

 

There's not a lot of 2B acquisitions with the potential to hit 30 homers. I know, HR aren't what they used to be and he doesn't get on base enough, yada , yada. Those are legit things but the upside is there and he's only 27 yet. Maybe the new hitting coach taps into something yet with him.

 

As I said, I'd hold.

[reillymcshane]

 

Yes ... but that is assuming he is valuable enough to warrant a qualifying offer. That is far from a guarantee.

 

It is pretty close to a guarantee....that we are not going to offer him a QO. That is a $18mil payday...ain't no way.

 

He'd have to put together an All-Star-level season for it to even be a consideration.

He'd have to hit .290+ with 30+ HR and play above average defense and get named to the all-star game.

 

Hey, just like 2017!

[JosephC]

The call on Schoop probably comes down to the payroll limit in 2019. If Attanasio sets it at 110 million, then I don't think the Brewers can offer Schoop arbitration. However, if Attanasio sets it at 120 million, then I think Stearns offers Schoop arbitration.

 

According to Cot's the highest the Brewers have ever gone is 104 million back in 2015. As far as the small markets and top payrolls.

1. Milwaukee = 104.2 million in 2015

2. Cincinnati = 115.3 million in 2015

3. Kansas City = 143.0 million in 2017

4. San Diego = 108.3 million in 2015

5. Baltimore = 164.3 million in 2017

6. Pittsburgh = 99.9 million in 2016

[JohnBriggs12]

I think I'd roll with Schoop at 2B to start the season. He's proven when he's right, he can hit MLB pitching. Yes, he was awful this season but two years ago he's easily a top 10 second baseman. They also have the luxury of Hiura potentially being able to replace him mid season, Dubon, Perez and Shaw could slide over there if needed now (assuming then they acquired a 3B)

 

There's not a lot of 2B acquisitions with the potential to hit 30 homers. I know, HR aren't what they used to be and he doesn't get on base enough, yada , yada. Those are legit things but the upside is there and he's only 27 yet. Maybe the new hitting coach taps into something yet with him.

 

As I said, I'd hold.

 

Well Dozier's out there as a FA with the potential to hit 30 HR. Lowrie's coming off a career high 23, and has the advantage of being a switch hitter. With Lowrie turning 35 in April and Dozier coming off a Schoop like 2018, neither would break the bank in terms of money and years. LeMahieu might be the best all around 2B on the market and he's going to command at least a 3 year deal though I don't think his AAV will be outrageous in this market. If the thought is to deal Hiura as part of deal for a top of the rotation pitcher, LeMahieu might be the way to go.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Lemahieu is a solid 2B, don't get me wrong. But I think people are overrating him with the Coors Field stats bump. Last year on the road he hit:

 

.229/.277/.422/.698

 

For his career on the road:

 

.264/.311/.362/.673

 

He did have better road splits in 2016-17, good but not great in the low to mid .700s

 

His career OPS+ is 92. Last year it was 88. These are around or below league average for a 2B. Again, league average overall for all players is 100.

 

I'd take him, but I certainly am not chomping at the bit to go get Lemahieu.

[reillymcshane]

Lemahieu is a solid 2B, don't get me wrong. But I think people are overrating him with the Coors Field stats bump. Last year on the road he hit:

 

.229/.277/.422/.698

 

For his career on the road:

 

.264/.311/.362/.673

 

He did have better road splits in 2016-17, good but not great in the low to mid .700s

 

His career OPS+ is 92. Last year it was 88. These are around or below league average for a 2B. Again, league average overall for all players is 100.

 

I'd take him, but I certainly am not chomping at the bit to go get Lemahieu.

 

One thing about LeMahieu is that he is a very good defender. If you can get even average offense from the guy, he's a nice player. Not great, but good.

 

However, in addition to the home/road splits, I'd also be worried about his left/right splits. The last couple of years, DJ has punished lefties while struggling against right handers. This can be a warning sign of things to come as players lose a little bat speed and pitch recognition ability as they get a little older (LeMahieu is 30).

[patrickgpe]

I think picking up the option is smart at this point. While my preference would be to resign Moose and keep Shaw at 2nd, bringing in Jonathan for one year makes tons of sense. I would think Huira will be the everyday 2nd baseman in 2020, you bridge the gap without having to make a long term commitment to Moose.

[long ball]

Man, with so many second basemen available someone is bound to fall through the cracks in free agency and be had for a bargain. I just don't see Schoop at $10mm fitting into this payroll.

[istanbultaye]

If there's an above average defender who can carry a .330+ OBP / .700+ OPS and 5M or so, I'd do that in a heartbeat over Schoop, but not sure that many of those exist. Among the myriads of journeyman 2b out there, i'm sure there's plenty who can do a .300/.650 line with passable defense that could be picked up midseason if Schoop continues to flop though, so no reason to rush out and get a cheap body, just to get a cheap body rather than keeping him for 1 year.

[reillymcshane]

Man, with so many second basemen available someone is bound to fall through the cracks in free agency and be had for a bargain. I just don't see Schoop at $10mm fitting into this payroll.

I was thinking this exact same thing today.

 

I've said that I think Schoop will be back - but I waver on that at times due to the glut of 2B types out there. And some of those guys can play other positions - which the team will appreciate.

 

I'm guessing the club talks to a lot of guys - and if they don't like what they see, they'll stick with Schoop. But I think they'd be foolish not to check in with some of the available players and see what it will take in years and dollars.

[JosephC]

I've moved into the "don't offer arbitration to Schoop" group and am willing to move on.

 

I kind of like Logan Forsythe the more I look at him. He was just awful last year but from 2015-2017 he was a .261/.348/.414/.762 hitter and pretty much average defensively at 2B. He'll be entering his age 32 season, that's not too old, and I'd guess he'll bounce back slightly from his bad 2018 season (.232/.313/.291/.604). Right handed bat that can also play 3B, so he could see some at-bats there if they decide to sit Shaw against certain lefty pitchers. Contract estimates on him are 1 year for somewhere between 1 and 2 million. Worst case scenario is that he bombs. If so then Hiura comes up at the end of May and Forsythe was a 1-2 million dollar investment which allowed the Brewers to play the service time and Super Two games with Hiura. Minimal financial risk with a bit of OBP upside.

[SRB]

I've moved into the "don't offer arbitration to Schoop" group and am willing to move on.

 

I kind of like Logan Forsythe the more I look at him. He was just awful last year but from 2015-2017 he was a .261/.348/.414/.762 hitter and pretty much average defensively at 2B. He'll be entering his age 32 season, that's not too old, and I'd guess he'll bounce back slightly from his bad 2018 season (.232/.313/.291/.604). Right handed bat that can also play 3B, so he could see some at-bats there if they decide to sit Shaw against certain lefty pitchers. Contract estimates on him are 1 year for somewhere between 1 and 2 million. Worst case scenario is that he bombs. If so then Hiura comes up at the end of May and Forsythe was a 1-2 million dollar investment which allowed the Brewers to play the service time and Super Two games with Hiura. Minimal financial risk with a bit of OBP upside.

 

Why would we gamble in Forsythe bouncing back, when we could gamble on Schoop (a better player) bouncing back.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I've moved into the "don't offer arbitration to Schoop" group and am willing to move on.

 

I kind of like Logan Forsythe the more I look at him. He was just awful last year but from 2015-2017 he was a .261/.348/.414/.762 hitter and pretty much average defensively at 2B. He'll be entering his age 32 season, that's not too old, and I'd guess he'll bounce back slightly from his bad 2018 season (.232/.313/.291/.604). Right handed bat that can also play 3B, so he could see some at-bats there if they decide to sit Shaw against certain lefty pitchers. Contract estimates on him are 1 year for somewhere between 1 and 2 million. Worst case scenario is that he bombs. If so then Hiura comes up at the end of May and Forsythe was a 1-2 million dollar investment which allowed the Brewers to play the service time and Super Two games with Hiura. Minimal financial risk with a bit of OBP upside.

 

Why would we gamble in Forsythe bouncing back, when we could gamble on Schoop (a better player) bouncing back.

 

I'm not endorsing either player but the obvious answer would be $$$

[reillymcshane]

The thing about Schoop is that as you compare him to other guys, I circle back to these things:

 

1. Age. He's only 27. The other 2B options are generally 30-35 years old. That isn't that old - but history has shown that as players age they generally don't get better. If someone is going to get better - it's more likely to be the 27 year old player, who is generally considered in his prime.

 

2. He's had recent success. 32 HR and a .293 BA just a year ago. You can hope he can return to that point - or at least get somewhere in between - say 25 HR and a .260-.270 BA. While he's not going to be a high OBP guy, that would make him a really solid player.

 

3. He plays good defense. Some guys - Daniel Murphy, for instance, are awful fielders. Schoop is a good defender, and I think that matters on this team.

 

4. The team's commitment is limited to one year. Some of the better 2B options - such as Marwin Gonzalez - are going to get 3-4 years and $10M+ a year.

 

5. He's been healthy. This is often age-related. He just doesn't have the mileage of the other players - and thus isn't as beat up. A lot of the older players have significant health-related issues.

 

I'm not saying that Schoop should be our guy. The Brewers have to believe he can get back on track. Despite his struggles last year, I can see how the club might want him back.

[502 to Right]

The Brewers faced 6 lefty starters in the playoffs and Schoop started only one of those games (and he went 0 for 5 in that game). I think that tells you all you need to know about his future with the Brewers. He's a turd.

[PeaveyFury]

The Brewers faced 6 lefty starters in the playoffs and Schoop started only one of those games (and he went 0 for 5 in that game). I think that tells you all you need to know about his future with the Brewers. He's a turd.

 

Just out of curiosity, the Brewers just went on a deep playoff run and came within one game of making the World Series. Despite that, and after looking back through your posts since July, 2/3 or more of your posts were directly related to Schoop. So, what's the deal? Why so stuck on this one move/player?

[torts]

The thing about Schoop is that as you compare him to other guys, I circle back to these things:

 

1. Age. He's only 27. The other 2B options are generally 30-35 years old. That isn't that old - but history has shown that as players age they generally don't get better. If someone is going to get better - it's more likely to be the 27 year old player, who is generally considered in his prime.

 

2. He's had recent success. 32 HR and a .293 BA just a year ago. You can hope he can return to that point - or at least get somewhere in between - say 25 HR and a .260-.270 BA. While he's not going to be a high OBP guy, that would make him a really solid player.

 

3. He plays good defense. Some guys - Daniel Murphy, for instance, are awful fielders. Schoop is a good defender, and I think that matters on this team.

 

4. The team's commitment is limited to one year. Some of the better 2B options - such as Marwin Gonzalez - are going to get 3-4 years and $10M+ a year.

 

5. He's been healthy. This is often age-related. He just doesn't have the mileage of the other players - and thus isn't as beat up. A lot of the older players have significant health-related issues.

 

I'm not saying that Schoop should be our guy. The Brewers have to believe he can get back on track. Despite his struggles last year, I can see how the club might want him back.

 

I think #3 and #4 are going to be the main reasons he stays. Brewers value defense rather high, AND they have two young guys in Dubon and Huira that could be ready in a year at 2B. No need to create a log-jam in the IF

[brewmann04]

I think he stays for that one year and they role the dice and try to add to the catching spot.

[JosephC]

I've moved into the "don't offer arbitration to Schoop" group and am willing to move on.

 

I kind of like Logan Forsythe the more I look at him. He was just awful last year but from 2015-2017 he was a .261/.348/.414/.762 hitter and pretty much average defensively at 2B. He'll be entering his age 32 season, that's not too old, and I'd guess he'll bounce back slightly from his bad 2018 season (.232/.313/.291/.604). Right handed bat that can also play 3B, so he could see some at-bats there if they decide to sit Shaw against certain lefty pitchers. Contract estimates on him are 1 year for somewhere between 1 and 2 million. Worst case scenario is that he bombs. If so then Hiura comes up at the end of May and Forsythe was a 1-2 million dollar investment which allowed the Brewers to play the service time and Super Two games with Hiura. Minimal financial risk with a bit of OBP upside.

 

Why would we gamble in Forsythe bouncing back, when we could gamble on Schoop (a better player) bouncing back.

 

I'm not endorsing either player but the obvious answer would be $$$

 

Yep, ~10 million dollars versus ~1.5 million dollars. I'd take that money and add it to other available funds and make a run at Wilson Ramos. All speculation, but I'm guessing that 10 million dollars dedicated to Schoop will really limit what the Brewers will be able to do this off-season in roster moves. Hopefully I'm wrong and Attanasio bumps the payroll to 125 million, which is a level that would make offering arbitration to Schoop a no-brainer yes. But I'll believe it when I see is (referring to the 125 million dollar payroll). I'm looking at it as Schoop + Pina/Kratz or perhaps Forsythe + Ramos/Pina. And with Hiura waiting in the wings, to me taking Ramos and a 6-8 week downgrade with at 2B with Forsythe (assuming Schoop will outplay him, and I'd agree the odds favor that) is the better decision.