Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)

[trwi7]

The Schoop trade didn't make sense at the time.

 

He might have been acquired just to help against a team like the Dodgers in the playoffs with all their LHP.

 

He has a .693 career OPS against LHP, so it was really stupid to acquire him if that was the reason.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The Schoop trade didn't make sense at the time.

 

He might have been acquired just to help against a team like the Dodgers in the playoffs with all their LHP.

 

He has a .693 career OPS against LHP, so it was really stupid to acquire him if that was the reason.

 

I think the bolded part pretty much sums up the deal. Stearns felt the need to make a big move, and looked past Schoop's warts hoping that his hot week prior to the trade would carry over. The truth is, though, Schoop is the exact type of hitter Stearns had shown he was trying to get away from by signing Cain and trading for Yelich and to a lesser extent, Moustakas. Schoop is very much a player Doug Melvin would have loved, but while he has the type of bat that can carry a team for short stretches in a Babe Ruthian style, it is no even close to sustainable due to his poor approach and lack of discipline. I was super excited about the deal when it happened, but I naively was looking past Schoop's warts and was thinking, or rather hoping, he would be the middle-of-the-order bat the team desperately needed at the time. I was completely wrong on that front. Thankfully Moose was decent, Shaw improved, Yelich became super human and Braun channeled his 2011 self, and when combined with terrific pitching, it was enough to go on that great run and win the division.

 

I think Stearns likely had a different deal in mind involving Ortiz (I'm guessing for Gausman or another 2B), and when that deal fell apart, he panicked and grabbed Schoop because he felt the need to grab someone at the deadline. It happens. I'd love to see them get some value out of Schoop, but if it doesn't happen, oh well I guess. You can't compound mistakes by prolonging them. It also wouldn't surprise me to see him go somewhere else and be great again. I just don't ever see that happening for the Brewers.

[pacopete4]

The part we don't mention much is that Arcia was basically trash last season until the last month or so. My guess is that this played a role in acquiring Schoop as well. If Arcia had been doing his job all year, we might not have been so desperate to make this move.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The part we don't mention much is that Arcia was basically trash last season until the last month or so. My guess is that this played a role in acquiring Schoop as well. If Arcia had been doing his job all year, we might not have been so desperate to make this move.

 

You are right. I think that was part of it too. Along with the revolving door of sub replacement-level crap (Villar, Sogard, Miller, Saladino, Perez) that the team was running out regularly at 2B. Plus I think there were people in the organization who had doubts that Shaw could play a passable 2B.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The part we don't mention much is that Arcia was basically trash last season until the last month or so. My guess is that this played a role in acquiring Schoop as well. If Arcia had been doing his job all year, we might not have been so desperate to make this move.

 

That was indeed significant in late July - as Schoop got a decent amount of starts early in his Brewer stint at SS. I think the fact he proved to play a passable shortstop should be considered for 2019 as well - he gives them a reverse platoon option spelling Arcia there on occasion and would give the team less reason to have a roster spot dedicated to a backup MIF of Saladino/Sogard's ilk.

 

If nothing else the Brewers shunned some of the positional norms to get bats in the lineup down the stretch - while relying on shifts to mitigate what would traditionally be perceived as defensive liabilities (i.e., Shaw at 2nd, Perez at SS, etc)

[502 to Right]

The truth is, though, Schoop is the exact type of hitter Stearns had shown he was trying to get away from by signing Cain and trading for Yelich and to a lesser extent, Moustakas. Schoop is very much a player Doug Melvin would have loved

 

I agree with this completely--which I was I was highly negative on the trade from the word go. I love what Stearns has done but the Schoop trade was a head scratcher.

[FVBrewerFan]

The Schoop trade didn't make sense at the time.

 

He might have been acquired just to help against a team like the Dodgers in the playoffs with all their LHP.

 

He has a .693 career OPS against LHP, so it was really stupid to acquire him if that was the reason.

 

I think the bolded part pretty much sums up the deal. Stearns felt the need to make a big move, and looked past Schoop's warts hoping that his hot week prior to the trade would carry over. The truth is, though, Schoop is the exact type of hitter Stearns had shown he was trying to get away from by signing Cain and trading for Yelich and to a lesser extent, Moustakas. Schoop is very much a player Doug Melvin would have loved, but while he has the type of bat that can carry a team for short stretches in a Babe Ruthian style, it is no even close to sustainable due to his poor approach and lack of discipline. I was super excited about the deal when it happened, but I naively was looking past Schoop's warts and was thinking, or rather hoping, he would be the middle-of-the-order bat the team desperately needed at the time. I was completely wrong on that front. Thankfully Moose was decent, Shaw improved, Yelich became super human and Braun channeled his 2011 self, and when combined with terrific pitching, it was enough to go on that great run and win the division.

 

I think Stearns likely had a different deal in mind involving Ortiz (I'm guessing for Gausman or another 2B), and when that deal fell apart, he panicked and grabbed Schoop because he felt the need to grab someone at the deadline. It happens. I'd love to see them get some value out of Schoop, but if it doesn't happen, oh well I guess. You can't compound mistakes by prolonging them. It also wouldn't surprise me to see him go somewhere else and be great again. I just don't ever see that happening for the Brewers.

 

I agree with everything you said, except I don't think it was a panic move. I think he wanted pitching and couldn't get a deal done that he thought was fair. So he figured Schoop, while not the ideal type of hitter, could still be an upgrade for the stretch run- especially since he appeared to be "hot" at the time. Catch lightning in the bottle for a month or two. I think it was a calculated risk, not a panic move.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think the worries about how high the payroll is now might be overblown somewhat. Payrolls go up over time so it being higher now than in the past should be expected. We can't be comparing it to years past. If we are going to be competitive now it is going to be higher than the last time we had a competitive team.

[Boomer5]

We all knew he would get non tendered. We don’t have the payroll for $10M if he isn’t a middle of the order bat.

[sveumrules]

He hasn't been non-tendered yet & even if he eventually is, we didn't all know it was going to happen ahead of time or else this thread would not exist to the extent it does.

[coolhandluke121]

We all knew he would get non tendered. We don’t have the payroll for $10M if he isn’t a middle of the order bat.

 

What? A credible insider says they're leaning that way. That's not at all a done deal, and it certainly doesn't indicate that it was ever even remotely conclusive or an easy decision.

[markedman5]

#Brewers non-tender Jonathan Schoop, Xavier Cedeno and Dan Jennings.

 

[JDBrewCrew]

Adam McCalvy

Verified account

@AdamMcCalvy

54s55 seconds ago

David Stearns looking at the Schoop trade in hindsight: "Look, it was a bad deal, and that's on me. We made a trade for a player we thought was going to be here for a year and a half, and I was wrong."

 

Love the accountability here.

[Thurston Fluff]

We all knew he would get non tendered. We don’t have the payroll for $10M if he isn’t a middle of the order bat.

 

$10 million doesn't get you a middle of the order bat these days and hasn't for a while now.

[markedman5]

Like this kind of accountability from Stearns

 

David Stearns looking at the Schoop trade in hindsight: "Look, it was a bad deal, and that's on me. We made a trade for a player we thought was going to be here for a year and a half, and I was wrong."

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Like this kind of accountability from Stearns

 

David Stearns looking at the Schoop trade in hindsight: "Look, it was a bad deal, and that's on me. We made a trade for a player we thought was going to be here for a year and a half, and I was wrong."

 

Love the honesty. Now time to move on and find a better fit. No shortage of options available.

[rcc]

Bad deal is so right. Stearns has done a very good job in his deals but Schoop wasn't a good fit and the cost was too high. Gotta respect David for admitting it.

[502 to Right]

That's very refreshing of Stearns to admit he whiffed.

 

I will also add that a statement like that pretty much forecloses the possibility of Schoop coming back at a lower price. Clearly, the Brewers did not like what they saw in his time here.

[coolhandluke121]

but Schoop wasn't a good fit

 

This is the real issue. You will guess wrong on some moves or non-moves, but you have to make the moves for the right reasons. Once they decided to acquire Moustakas and play Shaw at 2B, they should have crossed Schoop off the list. In a vacuum, I would have been fine with taking the gamble, and even with gambling on him again next year, but I think they had an itchy trigger finger at the deadline and that's not a good way to operate.

[anglotiger]

Specifically, people irrationally overvalue sunk costs and undervalue opportunity costs. What Schoop was traded for is a sunk cost. It's gone, and nothing will change that. In business, you should never make decisions based on sunk costs. This is also why people lose more money gambling than they should - they try to "make it up" by playing longer or trying another game, but rarely does it work; they are making decisions based on sunk costs (earlier gambling losses).

 

People should make decisions based on opportunity costs. That is the question here - what is the opportunity cost of resigning Schoop? Is there someone else they can get who will likely be a better value (value defined as production compared to salary)?

 

Excellent post. I'm always advising people about getting hung up on sunk costs (in a different context to those that you mentioned).

 

Like everyone else, I'm glad that Stearns is owning this and, I'm sure, will be that much better a GM for the experience.

[SRB]

You don't usually see comments like that from GMs! I suspect the front office is/was unsurprisingly upset with Schoop about how badly he disappeared in the second half.

[PeaveyFury]

It really is too bad that his arby number was going to be so high. As others have rightfully said and the Brewers obviously determined, the price made bringing him back really tough for the Brewers to do. I have little doubt that he'll return to being a respectable 2B somewhere else, but for 10 million the Brewers would have needed to be sure he'd be more than just that.

[PinaMadness]

Makes you wonder how much they hated Villar.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Makes you wonder how much they hated Villar.

 

They should love Villar. He saved them $30M-$40M easily.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Now I'm fully expecting next year's al or nl 2b silver slugger to get awarded to Schoop, given brewer luck with sending MIF's packing after disappointing production.

 

Hopefully both the brewers and Schoop benefit from this move, provided schoop's career year isn't with someone else in the nl central so we have to watch him kill the brewers in 2019.

 

Hiura isn't far away, and frankly they still have enough internal options to play 2nd until super 2 passes without spending any more on the position if that's the route they plan to take.