2018-10-16 (NLCS Game #4): Brewers (González) at Dodgers (Hill) 8:09 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 2-1 -- 13 Innings]

[tmwiese55]

An interesting thing to watch here is whether the Dodgers play their normal 'vs lefty' lineup where they sit down a bunch of their lefties or not after seeing how we just used Gio for one time through last time. Basically, do they kind of call our bluff on it or not. Because if they do the same as last time, we're going to counter with Wood or Burnes quickly for R on R matchups and/or them burning their bench early. And if they bring in lefties to counter Wood/Burnes then hader can come in the 7/8 and mow them down. If they call our bluff, then well we can hope Gio does well and gets through the lineup twice. Big game of chess, interesting to watch.

[Boomer5]

I wouldn’t mind if our big guys would start hitting so we don’t have to grind at every bullpen decision.

[KeithStone53151]

I wouldn’t mind if our big guys would start hitting so we don’t have to grind at every bullpen decision.

 

It's the playoffs. If you are waiting for that 10-0 game where we can let Peralta pitch 3 innings...it isn't happening. The Dodgers are very good, the rest of this series is going to have a lot of drama and stress. The nature of the game when 2 very good teams face off.

[SRB]

Counsell went with JJ last night to get him right back out there after probably the worst outing of his career (given the stakes) and to show that he still had the manager's confidence. A high leverage but non-save situation was the perfect time to do that.

 

Say what you will but Counsell is an excellent players' manager.

[KeithStone53151]

Does everyone fully expect GG to only go 2-3 innings again and then CC go to Woodruff? I'm asking for draftkings purposes.

[PlayerHader]

I thought CC might start Woody to get the RHP lineup starting for the Dodgers and then go to Gio to force them to decide to matchup early before flipping it to the RHP dominated BP. Maybe better to just let Gio go through his normal routine.

I thought that would make sense as well, but I think the plan is going to be Gio for a short start, then some combination of Woodruff, Burnes, and maybe one of Guerra or Peralta in the middle innings followed by Hader for the last 2-3 innings once the Dodgers have flipped their lineup over against the righties (assuming a Brewers lead or a tie game).

 

If Hader is available for multiple innings then I agree. I wasn't counting on that once I saw him enter the game last night.

[tmwiese55]

Counsell went with JJ last night to get him right back out there after probably the worst outing of his career (given the stakes) and to show that he still had the manager's confidence. A high leverage but non-save situation was the perfect time to do that.

 

Say what you will but Counsell is an excellent players' manager.

 

That's fair. however, I think the best way to get him on track is to rest him. Chances are the issues here are stemming from how much he's been used. Two straight off days maybe could've been a help in that regard.

 

Also, I think the main reason he went to JJ was to have Hader available today. He basically said so right after the game.

[SRB]

For those wondering why he keeps going with JJ with runners on base, it's not just an old-school "he's the closer/top guy" mentality. Jeffress is the best pitcher in the bullpen at inducing ground balls and avoiding HR.

[tmwiese55]

For those wondering why he keeps going with JJ with runners on base, it's not just an old-school "he's the closer/top guy" mentality. Jeffress is the best pitcher in the bullpen at inducing ground balls and avoiding HR.

 

100% agree, this has been his biggest strength all year, getting out of crazy jams. Most of the time not created by him and his stuff is groundball heavy which is ideal for the situation. Last week or two, not so much of course.

[shanedog19]

Hoping we stay with the ball and glove caps tonight. I just get a positive vibe every time we wear them.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Does everyone fully expect GG to only go 2-3 innings again and then CC go to Woodruff? I'm asking for draftkings purposes.

 

Under the current model of limiting most of our pitchers to one trip through the order, Gio is ranked 12th out of 12 on the current staff. His biggest use is his left-handedness and dictating the Dodgers starting lineup. So yes, Gio is likely capped at 2-3 innings. Doubt they'll want to tempt fate and push him. He had a very short leash last time and there's no reason to give him a longer one now. The big question is, who follows Gio? It sounds like Woodruff will be the guy but I'm not so sure. The score after 3 might dictate who follows. I have a sneaking suspicion we might be surprised by the second out getter for the Brewers tonight.

[KeithStone53151]

Does everyone fully expect GG to only go 2-3 innings again and then CC go to Woodruff? I'm asking for draftkings purposes.

 

Under the current model of limiting most of our pitchers to one trip through the order, Gio is ranked 12th out of 12 on the current staff. His biggest use is his left-handedness and dictating the Dodgers starting lineup. So yes, Gio is likely capped at 2-3 innings. Doubt they'll want to tempt fate and push him. He had a very short leash last time and there's no reason to give him a longer one now. The big question is, who follows Gio? It sounds like Woodruff will be the guy but I'm not so sure. The score after 3 might dictate who follows. I have a sneaking suspicion we might be surprised by the second out getter for the Brewers tonight.

 

This is my dilemna. I generally go allin on the team I think is going to win(or in this case...the team I want to win) so I'm picking brewers and red sox. If I was 100% confident Woodruff was pitching today, he's the easy decision. But I'm not that confident. And with Hader pitching yesterday, one of his 2+ inning stints is unlikely. I'll probably go GG and hope he's lights out...and hope my other bats carry.

[coolhandluke121]

Counsell went with JJ last night to get him right back out there after probably the worst outing of his career (given the stakes) and to show that he still had the manager's confidence. A high leverage but non-save situation was the perfect time to do that.

 

Say what you will but Counsell is an excellent players' manager.

 

That's fair. however, I think the best way to get him on track is to rest him. Chances are the issues here are stemming from how much he's been used. Two straight off days maybe could've been a help in that regard.

 

 

Exactly. That has to have a lot to do with it. It was a long season too. I don't really agree that Counsell is a player's manager. To me, that term is for people who leave Miley in, who don't bench Chase Anderson in September, and who don't send Knebel back to the minors even though he obviously needed it. I actually think that kind of gesture was a dramatic break from his normal m.o. His style has been more to approach guys and communicate why it's not working and why they might go in a different direction, and it's the honesty that players appreciate, but he doesn't cater to individual players much at all.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Does everyone fully expect GG to only go 2-3 innings again and then CC go to Woodruff? I'm asking for draftkings purposes.

 

Under the current model of limiting most of our pitchers to one trip through the order, Gio is ranked 12th out of 12 on the current staff. His biggest use is his left-handedness and dictating the Dodgers starting lineup. So yes, Gio is likely capped at 2-3 innings. Doubt they'll want to tempt fate and push him. He had a very short leash last time and there's no reason to give him a longer one now. The big question is, who follows Gio? It sounds like Woodruff will be the guy but I'm not so sure. The score after 3 might dictate who follows. I have a sneaking suspicion we might be surprised by the second out getter for the Brewers tonight.

 

I'm thinking your suspicion is Peralta. I think that is HIGHLY unlikely.

 

But many of the pitching moves they've made have completely flummoxed me, and they have worked for the team much more than not, so who knows?

[coolhandluke121]

Does everyone fully expect GG to only go 2-3 innings again and then CC go to Woodruff? I'm asking for draftkings purposes.

 

Under the current model of limiting most of our pitchers to one trip through the order, Gio is ranked 12th out of 12 on the current staff. His biggest use is his left-handedness and dictating the Dodgers starting lineup. So yes, Gio is likely capped at 2-3 innings. Doubt they'll want to tempt fate and push him. He had a very short leash last time and there's no reason to give him a longer one now. The big question is, who follows Gio? It sounds like Woodruff will be the guy but I'm not so sure. The score after 3 might dictate who follows. I have a sneaking suspicion we might be surprised by the second out getter for the Brewers tonight.

 

I could honestly see him pitching just 1 if the Dodgers start mostly RHB's and the pitcher's spot comes up in the top of the 2nd.

[MrTPlush]

Why would they not use Hader? He threw like 8 pitches and it is the postseason. If we are gunning for a win I would expect 4+ outs no questions asked.

 

There was no way they used Hader last night with a 4 run lead to make him unavailable for the best game on paper for us to win. If last nights appearance was going to stop him from pitching today Counsell would have just thrown him out there for another inning.

[TURBO]

Why would they not use Hader? He threw like 8 pitches and it is the postseason. If we are gunning for a win I would expect 4+ outs not questions.

 

agreed, I expect the possibility of full useage from him tonight if the situation calls for it.

[tmwiese55]

Why would they not use Hader? He threw like 8 pitches and it is the postseason. If we are gunning for a win I would expect 4+ outs not questions.

 

Correct. CC said on the field after the game taking him out was all about having him available today. If they're in a place to win this game they're putting their foot on the gas, no holds barred, etc. If you go up 3-1 it's almost a lock to win. And have to remember Kershaw tomorrow, while I know he's not what he was, you should be doing all you can to not go into that game 2-2 because if you go down 3-2 the odds are massively against you.

[djd1228]

Why would they not use Hader? He threw like 8 pitches and it is the postseason. If we are gunning for a win I would expect 4+ outs not questions.

 

Correct. CC said on the field after the game taking him out was all about having him available today. If they're in a place to win this game they're putting their foot on the gas, no holds barred, etc. If you go up 3-1 it's almost a lock to win. And have to remember Kershaw tomorrow, while I know he's not what he was, you should be doing all you can to not go into that game 2-2 because if you go down 3-2 the odds are massively against you.

 

Yeah without being too overly reactive, I think the series is won tonight if we win. I dont see us losing 3 in a row. However, I dont think going back to milwaukee down 3-2 is a death sentence.

[Roderick]

The post game on Fox was just brutal. They just had to criticize every move. First it was pitching Hader at all (Hello it was only a 4 run game) and 2nd it was not throwing him out there in the 9th (Thus preserving him for today or tomorrow). I get that what Counsell is doing is not conventional and the talking heads aren't used to it but you at least have to give him some credit. It is basically all hands on deck today.

 

He got up and was warming up when it was only a two run game. I know some managers nowadays keep the plan to put a reliever in the game regardless of score if they have already been warming up. That shouldn't be too new a territory for the talking heads.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I've heard like 5 theories as to why Hader played and I think they are nonsense. One person claimed CC caved to postseason pressure, whatever that means. Or that he was warm so he had to come in. I think it's more likely he already decided in that exact scenario that Hader was going to play. I don't think CC is out there just winging it.

[tmwiese55]

I don't remotely see how playing Hader was controversial. If it was 3-0 people wouldn't question due to traditional Save opps, but 1 more run then it's crazy? LAD offense is potent, moreover he was already warmed up when it was 2-0. IMO the time to get greedy could've been to see if Soria could go that whole inning with Hader ready if he gave up a runner. Then re-assess the 9th after. To me the only discussion point was what to do after Hader was already in, let him just ice it himself or get greedy to save him for today. I see both sides of it and don't think there is a clear answer or at least a "the other side is a moron" type answer. I would've just let him finish but it worked out, so hopefully they win today.

[rcc]

I hate the Fox crew criticizing CC every chance they get. Yes we have done it too but like last night with JJ we get nervous when things don't go smoothly. That's what fans want, a win every time out. We come to this board to be happy together and to complain together.

 

Go Brewers and get us another win tonight.

[KeithStone53151]

I don't remotely see how playing Hader was controversial. If it was 3-0 people wouldn't question due to traditional Save opps, but 1 more run then it's crazy? LAD offense is potent, moreover he was already warmed up when it was 2-0. IMO the time to get greedy could've been to see if Soria could go that whole inning with Hader ready if he gave up a runner. Then re-assess the 9th after. To me the only discussion point was what to do after Hader was already in, let him just ice it himself or get greedy to save him for today. I see both sides of it and don't think there is a clear answer or at least a "the other side is a moron" type answer. I would've just let him finish but it worked out, so hopefully they win today.

 

This is about where I'm at. Pulling Hader and having anybody else close that games out against the heart of their order was risky. Jeffress is a guy that got us there, the problem with not having Hader finish is...what if something goes wrong, like it did? You can't go back to Hader once he's out. It all worked out so no harm no foul...and especially in the playoffs, what matters is results.

[KeithStone53151]

I hate the Fox crew criticizing CC every chance they get. Yes we have done it too but like last night with JJ we get nervous when things don't go smoothly. That's what fans want, a win every time out. We come to this board to be happy together and to complain together.

 

Go Brewers and get us another win tonight.

 

I actually come to this board for packers and dancing with the stars updates...