The Future of Pitching

[Humans Need Water]

There's just so many moving parts and variables in play on a nightly basis that if this theory, which has been discussed on this site for at least 3yrs, held water some MLB team would have implemented it already.

 

Part of making it work will be flexibility. Having a lot of arms and a lot of guys with options is necessary for it to work, and most teams don't have that, but it looks like the Brewers will in 2019.

 

I don't think there is going to be a set pattern. At least I hope not. I still think that game situations and who is rested will still play the largest part in pitching changes. I'd hope that there are times when the Brewers are up by 5 and the IOG is looking great and humming along, and they just let him keep humming until he gives up a run/gets in serious trouble rather than taking him out in the 4th or 5th inning just because that is what the "plan" was if it was a close game or if he didnt look great.

 

What worries me is that no matter how successful their innovations are most of the time, there will be a week at some point where we lose 2 or 3 games in row because of an odd rotation strategy. If we keep it up after a random blip like that will be the true test of how committed we are to the strategy--particularly if that bad stretch happens in April.

Why can't this apply to a 0-0 score or us having anywhere between a 1-4 run lead? Why does it only apply when we're up 5+ right away? And what you're describing there isn't piggybacking.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Wait. And. See.

[Humans Need Water]

Wait. And. See.

You: Woodruff could be the IOG one day and then 2-3 days later he could follow a lefty

Me: So what happens when Woodruff throws 75+ pitches to get through those first 3 innings on a random Monday start?

You: Wait. And. See

 

Awesome! Here's what's hilarious about all this. There hasn't been one person who's said they're *against* the piggybacking idea based on the current makeup of the team. *Not one*. There are people, myself included, who ask you questions to gain a better understanding of how this might look and play out, given you're mighty high on the idea, and then pick away at how aspects of it might not make sense or be plausible but you *ignore* all of those follow up points. Anytime somebody doesn't bow down in front of anything you say (like you do to your Uncle) you take it personally and then tell everyone they're the one's who are wrong. I asked you a simple question above and you couldn't even answer it.

 

Other than Rudy Giuliani I've never seen anyone move the goalposts so much on a given topic. You started with 11-12 arms with each throwing 2-3 innings every 2-3 days.

 

Then it shifted to using 8 starters and 5 pen arms - with 2 starters piggybacking off each other every day over a 4 day span while going 3 innings each (one time through the order not seeing anybody twice because you pointed out the numbers are much worse the 2nd, and the 3rd, time through) then being followed by pen arms. You said rotation arm/rotation arm/pen arm in a set schedule - I even laid out a Mon-Thur hypothetical in a different thread using the 8 pitchers you listed and asked you to confirm if I was understanding you correctly. You confirmed it, but said you might change who the actual matchups would be, which means the set schedule wouldn't be changed just the actual pitchers I listed on those specific days.

 

Then it shifted to them throwing 4 innings each, potentially, instead of 2-3 (although not sure why given nobody should go through the order more than once according to you).

 

Then it shifted away from the set schedule to a mixing and matching schedule where, according to you, it could hypothetically be Burnes for 3-4 then Claudio for 1-2 then Woodruff for 3-4. (this isn't even piggybacking so this can't be an option for you under your own theory as you specifically stated piggybacking/working in tandem at this point).

 

Then it shifted to, hypothetically, Woodruff could start one game then 2-3 days later enter the game out of the pen replacing a lefty *and* allowing for playing matchups (it's open-ended here meaning there's zero clarification if the intent for him replacing the lefty is to go 3-4 innings and finish the game or if it's him in a straight 1 inning pen role, given we don't know how many pitches he would've thrown that first game in this hypothetical, which means he might not even be available to begin with regardless of which role it is. Also, if it's the 3-4 innings option then how are we able to play matchups when he's finishing the game?).

 

Now it's shifted to: Wait. And. See.

 

You went from 11-12 arms throwing 2-3 innings each while doing so every 2-3 days *to* "The Brewers are almost assuredly going to have a traditional 5 man rotation to start 2019" (you on Oct 16 *after* the previous statement was already made) *to* mix and match piggybacking / Wiat. And. See. AKA somebody's going to start the game and other guys are going to finish it. I don't how, I just know it's going to happen.

 

There's a reason you *consciously refuse* to provide detailed hypothetical examples of how this might play out over the course of one week, factoring in certain variables like number of pitches thrown, matchups due to pinch hitters/double shifts, etc and how that might affect your hypothetical over the next few days or week as a result. It's because you'd be backing yourself into a corner and if it doesn't happen somewhat along those lines you'd be wrong and there's no way your ego can handle that. So you turn to drastically shifting the goalposts so that whatever happens you can always say you're right.

 

*side bar - just another quick example of you lying on this site again. You said that Chacin was essentially piggybacked this year. Yeah, except there's zero evidence to support this. A rotation arm going 5 innings can't have a piggyback unless the next person in is a Woodruff/Burnes type who goes 3-4 innings. That never happened once.

 

*it's no coincidence you started this thread after the Brewers started the playoffs 4-0 with 2 of those games being Woodruff starting vs CO going 3 innings with Burnes following him for 2 innings and the other game being Gio going for 2 innings followed by Woodruff 2 and Hader 3. Except that happened during the playoffs where you get frequent days off to recover unlike the regular season outside of a few small windows.

 

*Nelson (as of now since he's full-go but that could change come ST), Chacin, Davies, Chase are the rotation arms and Stearns is still trying to acquire another leaving guys like Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Guerra in the pen as versatile swingmen with Hader, Knebel, Jeffress, Claudio acting as traditional pen arms typically pitching in the 7-9th innings. What Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Guerra allow this team to do is be non-traditional in that if a starter isn't on his game early they can replace him without "hoping" that person rights the ship through 5-6 innings like in the past so the pen doesn't get burned. If they need middle/late inning high leverage situation out of them they can do that too (mainly Burnes/Woodruff here). If they need a bullpen game using 2-3 of them to eat up 9 innings essentially giving the rest of the team a day off they can do that. If a starter is struggling they can put them on the 10 day DL and have one of these 4 guys start bringing up someone from AAA to backfill (ie Brown or Derby). If they need a one time spot start they have 4 options here depending who's fully rested at that point in time. What I'm describing is versatility out of these 4 allowing the Brewers to always put themselves in a position to stop any potential bleeding early or shut something down middle/late. What I'm describing here *isn't remotely close to what you've been describing* And what I'm describing here is what was happening in the 2nd half of 2018 and will continue to happen moving forward *if* they keep Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Guerra in that swingmen role...5 innings from a rotation arm then a lot of options for eating up innings and/or playing matchups late so the pen is never really overworked.

 

#LongestPostEver

[True Blue Brew Crew]

That's a lot of words. It's like you don't realize that piggybacks and tandems have been done before. They have and with great results.

 

Wait. And See.

 

#Iknowsomethingyoudontknow #sticksouttongue

[pacopete4]

Is this real life?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

True Brew, you obviously know baseball and are a huge Brewer fan. Perhaps if you tried not being so condescending toward other posters who are just as big of fans, people would take you more seriously.

[PeaveyFury]

That's a lot of words. It's like you don't realize that piggybacks and tandems have been done before. They have and with great results.

 

Wait. And See.

 

#Iknowsomethingyoudontknow #sticksouttongue

 

Yeah, this doesn't play well here. If you have something you wish to share, please feel free to do it. If not, please keep your 'info' to yourself. We won't tolerate this 'I have a secret' stuff here.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

That's a lot of words. It's like you don't realize that piggybacks and tandems have been done before. They have and with great results.

 

Wait. And See.

 

#Iknowsomethingyoudontknow #sticksouttongue

 

Yeah, this doesn't play well here. If you have something you wish to share, please feel free to do it. If not, please keep your 'info' to yourself. We won't tolerate this 'I have a secret' stuff here.

 

I have repeatedly - throughout this thread and a few other pitching topics. I've gotten as specific as I can. I'm not David Stearns, Craig Counsell, Chris Hook, or Mark Dewey. Even Counsell can't spell out exactly how they'll line everyone up. It's not rigid every 4 day usage. That's the whole point. That's why when everyone keeps asking for specifics I say - Wait and See.

[3and2Fastball]

The ability to be fluid week to week & utilize minor league options requires great depth. That's why I have doubts about any of our young pitchers being moved when I see them mentioned in trade rumors. We're gonna need all of them!

[FVBrewerFan]

A double secret plan even Counsel doesn't know about, I can't wait!

 

For those unaware, we had a poster last year who claimed to know things about FA and trades, I won't dignify him by mentioning his name. But he later admitted it was all a hoax. Most of us didn't believe him in the first place, but many did. It caused a lot of angst and was a big waste of time.

 

True Blue, I don't believe for a second that's what you're doing here. You've been a solid contributor, and you're not purposely trying to create any drama. But you can't just casually throw out "I know things you don't know." Throughout this topic you have changed the details of how you "know" they will use the staff. Making it pretty easy to later claim "I told you so" when any one of those things happen.

 

We all know they will continue to be creative with the pitching staff, Stearns recently said it himself. If you want to float how you THINK the will do it, or how you WANT them to do it that's fair game. We all have opinions. But please don't come in here with "I know something" without any context.