"The Milwaukee Brewers Have Played This All Perfectly"

[DuWayne Steurer]

https://deadspin.com/the-brewers-have-played-this-all-perfectly-1829606947

 

The best part of this article is where Erik Kratz is referred to as a "journeyman goofus".

[trwi7]

https://deadspin.com/the-brewers-have-played-this-all-perfectly-1829606947

 

The best part of this article is where Erik Kratz is referred to as a "journeyman goofus".

 

I like a "big dumb parade."

[brooks_quichenick]

Good read, I always enjoy David Roth's stuff for Deadspin

[SenatorShriv]

Feels like a lot of stories are missing out on the emphasis on advanced analytics. I've been impressed with the team's commitment to advanced analytics across the board - defensive shifts, managing pitching / the bullpen, pinch hitting, etc. That kind of leadership comes from the top or they would have fired CC the first time they lost a game because of a defensive shift.

[DuWayne Steurer]

That's funny because earlier in the season Deadspin, and I believe it was the same writer, had an article basically taking Jabs at the Phillies and specifically Gabe kapler for his use of advanced metrics in his defensive shifting. I don't know what data set the Phillies are or were using for their shifts, but it clearly didn't work for them as they were near the bottom of the lead in defensive runs lost.

 

Just in this three-game series against Colorado, I couldn't help but be amazed at how many Rockets the Rockies batters continually hit that were right at where a Brewers Fielder was already standing. Don't need to have a ton of range if you already know where to stand.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Decent article, but any sort of research who have told him that Domingo Santana wasn't squeezed out by Christian Yelich, and didn't start the year in AAA. If anything, Ryan Braun was squeezed out by Christian Yelich. Domingo was squeezed out by Domingo.

[dlk9s]

Feels like a lot of stories are missing out on the emphasis on advanced analytics. I've been impressed with the team's commitment to advanced analytics across the board - defensive shifts, managing pitching / the bullpen, pinch hitting, etc. That kind of leadership comes from the top or they would have fired CC the first time they lost a game because of a defensive shift.

 

The point of the story was about how the team was built.

[bill hAll Star]

Roth is great, I'd put myself in Deadspin's demographic generally...but I'll admit that they love to drum up the idea of "winning in spite of the MLB teams' owners' greediness" as the sole reason/tone of their articles.

[owbc]

Yeah I've never bought the narrative that most teams aren't trying to win. Many are just doing a terrible job at it. The Padres weren't being cheap when they signed Hosmer, they were just being stupid. The media likes to fit teams into pre-defined narratives..."contending, rebuilding, tanking, on the rise, etc". The Brewers do not fit...they sort of rebuilding but are opportunists. The plan in January was not to win this year, then they identified some opportunities to get better. One opportunity led to another and here we are.

[brooks_quichenick]

Yeah I've never bought the narrative that most teams aren't trying to win. Many are just doing a terrible job at it. The Padres weren't being cheap when they signed Hosmer, they were just being stupid. The media likes to fit teams into pre-defined narratives..."contending, rebuilding, tanking, on the rise, etc". The Brewers do not fit...they sort of rebuilding but are opportunists. The plan in January was not to win this year, then they identified some opportunities to get better. One opportunity led to another and here we are.

 

 

I mean, look at the American League outside of HOU/NYY/BOS/OAK/SEA/CLE and tell me any of those teams made a serious effort to win.

 

Also I strongly disagree that the Brewers plan was not to win this year. They were 1 game away from the Postseason last year. Stearns wasn't just going to sit and wait.

[bill hAll Star]

Yeah I've never bought the narrative that most teams aren't trying to win. Many are just doing a terrible job at it. The Padres weren't being cheap when they signed Hosmer, they were just being stupid. The media likes to fit teams into pre-defined narratives..."contending, rebuilding, tanking, on the rise, etc". The Brewers do not fit...they sort of rebuilding but are opportunists. The plan in January was not to win this year, then they identified some opportunities to get better. One opportunity led to another and here we are.

 

 

I mean, look at the American League outside of HOU/NYY/BOS/OAK/SEA/CLE and tell me any of those teams made a serious effort to win.

 

Also I strongly disagree that the Brewers plan was not to win this year. They were 1 game away from the Postseason last year. Stearns wasn't just going to sit and wait.

 

Well, the Twins and Angels tried to win at the onset of the season and the O's/Blue Jays/Kansas City were coming off of several years of pushing more chips on to the table until they busted. Detroit was in the O's/Blue Jays group, just a year or two further along.

 

It's a bit of a complex debate, though. Have owners/GMs realized that tanking is a reasonable way to win a World Series? Yes. Have owners then decided that they can skim off the top as well? Yes.

 

It opened up this middle market for the Brewers, no doubt. The rest of the teams have decided that they're better off shooting for the moon every 5 years (and maybe failing) instead of maxing out their payroll to finish 15 games behind the Red Sox/Yankees/Dodgers/etc.

 

I just think maybe a little bit too much weight has been assigned to this, "the greedy oligarch owners want to sit on their pile of money and the Brewers exploited the league." The Marlins honestly should've rebuilt if their goal is to win a title someday (yes, the Yelich trade was robbery, the rest of their trades look fine).

[Roderick]

Yeah I've never bought the narrative that most teams aren't trying to win. Many are just doing a terrible job at it. The Padres weren't being cheap when they signed Hosmer, they were just being stupid. The media likes to fit teams into pre-defined narratives..."contending, rebuilding, tanking, on the rise, etc". The Brewers do not fit...they sort of rebuilding but are opportunists. The plan in January was not to win this year, then they identified some opportunities to get better. One opportunity led to another and here we are.

 

 

I mean, look at the American League outside of HOU/NYY/BOS/OAK/SEA/CLE and tell me any of those teams made a serious effort to win.

 

Also I strongly disagree that the Brewers plan was not to win this year. They were 1 game away from the Postseason last year. Stearns wasn't just going to sit and wait.

 

It's a bit of a complex debate, though. Have owners/GMs realized that tanking is a reasonable way to win a World Series? Yes. Have owners then decided that they can skim off the top as well? Yes.

 

I don't think it is that the owners just figured out tanking will fill the coffers. I think they have realized they can get away with it (to some extent). By that I mean, their ticket buying public is maybe more knowledgable about tearing it down and rebuilding like Houston and not holding it against the team too badly. In the past, maybe everybody would be on the radio raising heck or cutting off all ticket purchasing. Now I think the fans are more forgiving about a rebuild as long as they can see it going somewhere.

[bill hAll Star]

I don't think it is that the owners just figured out tanking will fill the coffers. I think they have realized they can get away with it (to some extent). By that I mean, their ticket buying public is maybe more knowledgable about tearing it down and rebuilding like Houston and not holding it against the team too badly. In the past, maybe everybody would be on the radio raising heck or cutting off all ticket purchasing. Now I think the fans are more forgiving about a rebuild as long as they can see it going somewhere.

 

That may be part of it, but there is no doubt that some teams like Miami would maybe sell 20-30% more tickets if they had their stars on the team winning 78 games.

 

The issue is that the owners are swimming in revenue sharing and TV deals and can stomach less butts in the seats.

 

Your point remains, though, that fans may not jump ship during this rebuild due to understanding this

[owbc]

The jury is still out on whether owners can get away with tanking. Fans/media/players are complaining about it like crazy. There have been some serious attendance/TV viewership declines in some of those cities (TOR, BAL, KC, MIA...also TEX, DET, CIN to an extent). Jeter has been bashed like crazy for the Miami situation even though (as mentioned) it might be considered the 'smart' move...and with the fanbase already jaded there was zero tolerance for it. TV ratings are subject to the boom/bust cycle as well and it's TBD if some of these lucrative TV contracts will be renewed at the same level in the future.

 

If there are this many teams tanking at once, it's obvious that it's not going to work out for all of them. Prospects are no guarantee. Extended losing cycles (> 5 years) are really bad for growing a fanbase. As we saw on this message board in July, people were impatient and ready to revolt if the Brewers missed the playoffs this year. It was a good year to be a buyer in the FA/trade deadline market and the Brewers were fortunate to be in a position to take advantage of it without having to sacrifice the future (one of the only small market teams to avoid going 'all-in' in this kind of situation).

 

As for the other stuff like 'collusion' causing reduced interest in big free agent contracts...that's just common sense. Very few of those huge FA contracts were ever worth it, especially in the post-steroid era. Most FA signings last year were once again a bust, so there's no reason that trend shouldn't continue. The fans have gotten smart to it as well...did Hosmer sell any tickets in San Diego? Everyone knew that was dumb from day 1. At some point pre-arbitration players are going to get a big pay raise to compensate...but for now the owners definitely are saving money. I feel like it's only because the system is set up that way and people have gotten smart about it. Why waste money?

 

The Brewers might have been under the radar last year but in the next week there will an article on every sports website examining what Stearns/Counsell did and why.

[josh]

This article sells Stearns and the Brewers way short, IMO.

[sdcheezhd]

Roth is great, I'd put myself in Deadspin's demographic generally...but I'll admit that they love to drum up the idea of "winning in spite of the MLB teams' owners' greediness" as the sole reason/tone of their articles.

 

One of their writers described Deadspin's demographic as "irritable dads with a law degree."

[502 to Right]

That's an article I won't be reading because Deadspin is a garbage, classless website. I prefer sports journalism that doesn't mimic TMZ or drop the F bomb like they're so cool.

[Ennder]

 

 

I mean, look at the American League outside of HOU/NYY/BOS/OAK/SEA/CLE and tell me any of those teams made a serious effort to win.

 

Also I strongly disagree that the Brewers plan was not to win this year. They were 1 game away from the Postseason last year. Stearns wasn't just going to sit and wait.

 

All of the teams in the AL East went into the season trying to compete. In the AL Central the Tigers, White Sox and Royals are all in rebuilds and fit this narrative. None of the teams in the AL West went into the season trying to tank. 3 teams in the AL didn't make an effort to win. It just happens that way more than 3 teams were just awful.

 

In the NL the Marlins are really the only team that was tanking this year. The Reds pitching was even worse than expected and the Padres spent a lot of money in the off season.

[brooks_quichenick]

 

 

I mean, look at the American League outside of HOU/NYY/BOS/OAK/SEA/CLE and tell me any of those teams made a serious effort to win.

 

Also I strongly disagree that the Brewers plan was not to win this year. They were 1 game away from the Postseason last year. Stearns wasn't just going to sit and wait.

 

All of the teams in the AL East went into the season trying to compete. In the AL Central the Tigers, White Sox and Royals are all in rebuilds and fit this narrative. None of the teams in the AL West went into the season trying to tank. 3 teams in the AL didn't make an effort to win. It just happens that way more than 3 teams were just awful.

 

In the NL the Marlins are really the only team that was tanking this year. The Reds pitching was even worse than expected and the Padres spent a lot of money in the off season.

 

 

I mean if you really believe the Baltimore Orioles, Toronto Blue Jays, and Tampa Bay Rays tried to compete going into this season I really don't know what to tell you regarding the rest of this post.

[MadScientist]

The jury is still out on whether owners can get away with tanking. Fans/media/players are complaining about it like crazy. There have been some serious attendance/TV viewership declines in some of those cities (TOR, BAL, KC, MIA...also TEX, DET, CIN to an extent). Jeter has been bashed like crazy for the Miami situation even though (as mentioned) it might be considered the 'smart' move...and with the fanbase already jaded there was zero tolerance for it. TV ratings are subject to the boom/bust cycle as well and it's TBD if some of these lucrative TV contracts will be renewed at the same level in the future.

 

If there are this many teams tanking at once, it's obvious that it's not going to work out for all of them. Prospects are no guarantee. Extended losing cycles (> 5 years) are really bad for growing a fanbase. As we saw on this message board in July, people were impatient and ready to revolt if the Brewers missed the playoffs this year. It was a good year to be a buyer in the FA/trade deadline market and the Brewers were fortunate to be in a position to take advantage of it without having to sacrifice the future (one of the only small market teams to avoid going 'all-in' in this kind of situation).

 

As for the other stuff like 'collusion' causing reduced interest in big free agent contracts...that's just common sense. Very few of those huge FA contracts were ever worth it, especially in the post-steroid era. Most FA signings last year were once again a bust, so there's no reason that trend shouldn't continue. The fans have gotten smart to it as well...did Hosmer sell any tickets in San Diego? Everyone knew that was dumb from day 1. At some point pre-arbitration players are going to get a big pay raise to compensate...but for now the owners definitely are saving money. I feel like it's only because the system is set up that way and people have gotten smart about it. Why waste money?

 

The Brewers might have been under the radar last year but in the next week there will an article on every sports website examining what Stearns/Counsell did and why.

 

Tanking is a real problem for baseball. Most fans want hope for the season, and if their team is out before opening day, there's not much reason to watch or go to games. The thing is teams are not tanking just to tank. The only path that teams can take if the don't have enough talent to win, and don't have the unlimited money, the only real chance they have is to trade the talent they have for more / better talent in the future.

 

The only way to fix this is to have a reasonable way for a team to quickly get the talent they need to compete at a reasonable price point.

[owbc]

Tanking is a real problem for baseball. Most fans want hope for the season, and if their team is out before opening day, there's not much reason to watch or go to games. The thing is teams are not tanking just to tank. The only path that teams can take if the don't have enough talent to win, and don't have the unlimited money, the only real chance they have is to trade the talent they have for more / better talent in the future.

 

The only way to fix this is to have a reasonable way for a team to quickly get the talent they need to compete at a reasonable price point.

 

The quickest fix is to change the arbitration rules to prevent teams like the Blue Jays from keeping their most exciting young players in AAA. It’s so terrible for the game. Vlad Guerrero Jr. should have been in MLB this year and he’s losing a chance already to go for milestones like 3,000 hits because of the stupid rules. They would certainly have filled the stadium for his debut. If a young player achieves certain milestones in the minor leagues, his arbitration clock could start automatically.

 

There are plenty of other ways to make things interesting for bad teams, such as making them compete for draft picks. Set the draft order for non-playoff teams by September W/L record, best to worst.

[502 to Right]

I can't stand any draft system that rewards bad teams. They need to go to a random system where every team will have one overall number 1 pick in the next 30 years (and so on for all the other draft slots).

[bill hAll Star]

I can't stand any draft system that rewards bad teams. They need to go to a random system where every team will have one overall number 1 pick in the next 30 years (and so on for all the other draft slots).

 

Can you stand leagues where the Yankees and Dodgers will make the playoffs every 10 years out of 10 instead every 8 or 9 out of 10 with that system?

 

Could you imagine if the Yankees or Red Sox had the #1 overall pick this year with an already great 5 year outlook?

[dlk9s]

College sports are so top heavy because there's no draft (not that there would be). Oh wow, Alabama has the #1 football recruiting class again! Oh, how unusual - the top recruits are going to Georgia and Clemson! Success begets success in college. It's crazy hard for teams, especially in sports where you need a lot of good players, to climb into the top ranks if they aren't already there. The best players just go to the best programs and keep them the best.

 

Drafts in pro sports give lesser teams a chance to turn it around. They don't always do so, but at least the opportunity is there.

[homer]

I think teams should be allowed to trade draft picks and they should either have an international draft or include them in the regular draft.