Dodgers v Brewers

[pacopete4]

Thanks for doing the work for me guys. Saves me some time. It won’t mayter anyways because he won’t budge off his point. He’s been dead wrong numerous of times and never takes an ounce of it. Moving on!

 

Aguilar will start but shouldn’t. Braun should play 1B to get Santana in the lineup and let this thing really come full circle this season.

[coolhandluke121]

Think the argument us much ado about nothing anyway since only one game has been started by a RH anyway. Any late game swaps bring in the issue of the vs LH dropoff of Grandy. So you probably don't wanna PH Grandy for Braun and then leave him in. Combine that with presumably worse D. Braun is only ok at D but I recall when we got Grandy that people posted that he is basically awful now, like sub Santana last year bad now. So it's all this about whether Grandy should've started game 3, and we won that game.

 

But all I said was he should start against RHP's (Buehler, basically). He has 3 at-bats in the whole series and has looked far better and more on top of his you-know-what than Braun in all of them. That's kind of ridiculous. And I don't see this issue with a drop-off against LHP's. Just PH for him with Braun at that point.

 

Not buying the horrible defense. At the time of the trade, there was some talk about how the Brewers curate their defense using the greatness of Cain and Broxton in CF and hiding guys like Santana, Thames, and Broxton, but that was nuanced and I think some people ignored it. He looks fine in RF, and certainly Yelich is a lot better than Braun in LF. He was roaming a pretty big outfield in Toronto and those dWAR stats are pretty superficial when you dig deeper. His dWAR surely was punished by a lot of fly balls that would have flown out of the park or been caught by Cain/Broxton as a Brewers.

[tmwiese55]

Think the argument us much ado about nothing anyway since only one game has been started by a RH anyway. Any late game swaps bring in the issue of the vs LH dropoff of Grandy. So you probably don't wanna PH Grandy for Braun and then leave him in. Combine that with presumably worse D. Braun is only ok at D but I recall when we got Grandy that people posted that he is basically awful now, like sub Santana last year bad now. So it's all this about whether Grandy should've started game 3, and we won that game.

 

But all I said was he should start against RHP's (Buehler, basically). He has 3 at-bats in the whole series and has looked far better and more on top of his you-know-what than Braun in all of them. That's kind of ridiculous. And I don't see this issue with a drop-off against LHP's. Just PH for him with Braun at that point.

 

Not buying the horrible defense. At the time of the trade, there was some talk about how the Brewers curate their defense using the greatness of Cain and Broxton in CF and hiding guys like Santana, Thames, and Broxton, but that was nuanced and I think some people ignored it. He looks fine in RF, and certainly Yelich is a lot better than Braun in LF. He was roaming a pretty big outfield in Toronto and those dWAR stats are pretty superficial when you dig deeper. His dWAR surely was punished by a lot of fly balls that would have flown out of the park or been caught by Cain/Broxton as a Brewers.

 

Right, this is all about starting one game which we won anyway. I get the point and certainly an argument can be made to start him vs RH. But this has nothing to do with why they're behind right now because it's only been one game and we won it. so much ado about nothing.

 

Yea, I'm not D stats wiz by any means. Just saying what was said on here by others, not by me. You can toss those stats out the window or accept them, IDC. To me, I think he looked old out there when he played. Whereas this year Braun eye test has looked much better than he's treated on here regarding his D.

[coolhandluke121]

Right, this is all about starting one game which we won anyway. I get the point and certainly an argument can be made to start him vs RH. But this has nothing to do with why they're behind right now because it's only been one game and we won it. so much ado about nothing.

 

Yea, I'm not D stats wiz by any means. Just saying what was said on here by others, not by me. You can toss those stats out the window or accept them, IDC. To me, I think he looked old out there when he played. Whereas this year Braun eye test has looked much better than he's treated on here regarding his D.

 

It's not even "much ado". I merely think he should start against RHP's and PH in pretty much every game, but some people can't handle their idol being questioned in any way, shape, or form. Every good thing Braun does is magnified 3x by people desperate to cling to the notion that he's still a good player.

 

The only issue with the eye test on defense for outfielders is that it's almost always about speed, but getting the right jump on the ball is actually more important than that. You could do the math but just think of how much faster you have to be if you lose even 4/10ths of a second not being sure which way to run. That's why Cameron was still so good well into his 30's.

[pacopete4]

 

But all I said was he should start against RHP's (Buehler, basically).

Braun smoked Buehler. Doubled in his first at bat to give us a 1-0 lead in game #3.

 

 

Every good thing Braun does is magnified 3x by people desperate to cling to the notion that he's still a good player.

Wrong. Again. This is just sour grapes to those calling you out.

[coolhandluke121]

 

But all I said was he should start against RHP's (Buehler, basically).

 

Braun smoked Buehler. Doubled in his first at bat to give us a 1-0 lead in game #3.

 

Every good thing Braun does is magnified 3x by people desperate to cling to the notion that he's still a good player.

Wrong. Again. This is just sour grapes to those calling you out.

 

The "only player to show up in both series" with an OPS under .700 is blatantly a pro-Braun bias. He has not been good. Case in point right here; one hard-hit double with a .558 OPS in the series proves me wrong? Okay. You are reaching to support a strong pro-Braun bias.

[pacopete4]

 

But all I said was he should start against RHP's (Buehler, basically).

 

Braun smoked Buehler. Doubled in his first at bat to give us a 1-0 lead in game #3.

 

Every good thing Braun does is magnified 3x by people desperate to cling to the notion that he's still a good player.

Wrong. Again. This is just sour grapes to those calling you out.

 

The "only player to show up in both series" with an OPS under .700 is blatantly a pro-Braun bias. He has not been good. Case in point right here; one hard-hit double with a .558 OPS in the series proves me wrong? Okay. You are reaching to support a strong pro-Braun bias.

 

Naw. Considering what the lineup has produced, Braun has show up. It's been tough sledding for just about everyone but he has had a big hit or two. He has 3 RBI's in a series where we aren't scoring any runs. Could he do better? Sure could. But you're ridiculous hot takes have gotten old to me so I responded. Braun was red hot to end the season as well. I'm sure you've been waiting for a few numbers to try to make a case to get him back to the bench.

[dlk9s]

And as has been said, were it not for two baserunning (though understandable) boners by Yelich, Braun's numbers look a lot better.

[coolhandluke121]

 

Naw. Considering what the lineup has produced, Braun has show up. It's been tough sledding for just about everyone but he has had a big hit or two. He has 3 RBI's in a series where we aren't scoring any runs. Could he do better? Sure could. But you're ridiculous hot takes have gotten old to me so I responded. Braun was red hot to end the season as well. I'm sure you've been waiting for a few numbers to try to make a case to get him back to the bench.

 

Or maybe you've been waiting for a few numbers to justify your loyalty to him? That can't really be proved either way, even if Braun (or Granderson, for that matter) has a great day tomorrow. It's about what the evidence supports, not about being able to predict what's going to happen in any given game. It's not a hot take. Granderson is comparable to Braun in all ways, including peak WAR, career WAR, and WAR the last 2 years. It's okay to say you prefer Braun, but it's excessively loyal to say it's not even close or mock the very idea of preferring Granderson. And to be clear, I'm not mocking the idea of having Braun out there; I just think Granderson deserves some of his pa's.

 

Yes, Braun was hot to end the year. How long have his hot streaks lasted the last few years? They're no better than what any typical respectable corner outfielder like Braun or Santana or Granderson is going to have on occasion. Have you considered the info I gave about how many pitches he's taken per at-bat compared to Yelich and Granderson? Do you know why OBP is generally regarded as being nearly twice as important as slugging? That's in part because of all the intangible, indirect benefits of drawing walks, like taking lots of pitches, in addition to the obvious fact that it's more important to protect outs than aggressively seek hits. Braun's 1 walk in 35 plate appearances is a big problem in playoff baseball, and he's averaging less than 3 pitches per plate appearance this series. By citing a few hard-hit balls, you are playing right into the batting average/slugging fallacy by rewarding and praising players who go for theirs instead of doing what's best for the team at the expense of personal glory. I like this article for a little more about the value of guys like Yelich and Cain vs. guys like Shaw, Moustakas, and Braun:

 

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/9/18/9329763/separate-but-not-quite-equal-why-ops-is-a-bad-statistic

[pacopete4]

 

Naw. Considering what the lineup has produced, Braun has show up. It's been tough sledding for just about everyone but he has had a big hit or two. He has 3 RBI's in a series where we aren't scoring any runs. Could he do better? Sure could. But you're ridiculous hot takes have gotten old to me so I responded. Braun was red hot to end the season as well. I'm sure you've been waiting for a few numbers to try to make a case to get him back to the bench.

 

Or maybe you've been waiting for a few numbers to justify your loyalty to him? That can't really be proved either way, even if Braun (or Granderson, for that matter) has a great day tomorrow. It's about what the evidence supports, not about being able to predict what's going to happen in any given game. It's not a hot take. Granderson is comparable to Braun in all ways, including peak WAR, career WAR, and WAR the last 2 years. It's okay to say you prefer Braun, but it's excessively loyal to say it's not even close or mock the very idea of preferring Granderson. And to be clear, I'm not mocking the idea of having Braun out there; I just think Granderson deserves some of his pa's.

 

Yes, Braun was hot to end the year. How long have his hot streaks lasted the last few years? They're no better than what any typical respectable corner outfielder like Braun or Santana or Granderson is going to have on occasion. Have you considered the info I gave about how many pitches he's taken per at-bat compared to Yelich and Granderson? Do you know why OBP is generally regarded as being nearly twice as important as slugging? That's in part because of all the intangible, indirect benefits of drawing walks, like taking lots of pitches, in addition to the obvious fact that it's more important to protect outs than aggressively seek hits. Braun's 1 walk in 35 plate appearances is a big problem in playoff baseball, and he's averaging less than 3 pitches per plate appearance this series. By citing a few hard-hit balls, you are playing right into the batting average/slugging fallacy by rewarding and praising players who go for theirs instead of doing what's best for the team at the expense of personal glory. I like this article for a little more about the value of guys like Yelich and Cain vs. guys like Shaw, Moustakas, and Braun:

 

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/9/18/9329763/separate-but-not-quite-equal-why-ops-is-a-bad-statistic

 

I'll consider something you post when you do towards anyone on this site. You don't own a thing. Until then, just skim through you and move along.

[tmwiese55]

I think what most are getting at is that you seem kind of fixated just on Braun in a lot of posts as some crux of the problem, when he hasn't been near the worst. That's really I think the jist of it. And specific to this starting GRandy over him in one game will have made no difference in the current 3-2 deficit because they won the game anyway and Braun's hit was key to it. So why not focus on something that matters to this series. Your discussion would be more relevant if say they play Hous next with only one lefty starter.

 

Also, just realized when I did the L/R stats breakdown earlier that I had it in my head that Buehler was game 2, not game 3. So those numbers are off, whoops. But a reminder again on his postseason stats, simply adding in Yelich's two base running blunders drastically increases his OPS due to such a small sample. Those were hits. Your points on taking pitches and not taking walks is good though, that guy should have more than 1 walk in 8 games.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Honestly if we're really looking at a way to get Granderson multiple at-bats in one of these games, it should probably be at the expense of out coldest hitter. And that player is likely to win the 2018 National League MVP. I know we're all waiting for Yelich to break out of it ... but time is running out.

 

But no, Braun isn't sitting. If he was comfortable getting a game in at 1B, though, we could play him there, and have the ice-cold Aguilar take a seat in one of these games.

 

Or I guess we'll just have to depend on Grandy to come up big in his final two at bats in the next two games.

[82brewcrew82]

 

But all I said was he should start against RHP's (Buehler, basically).

 

Braun smoked Buehler. Doubled in his first at bat to give us a 1-0 lead in game #3.

 

Every good thing Braun does is magnified 3x by people desperate to cling to the notion that he's still a good player.

Wrong. Again. This is just sour grapes to those calling you out.

 

The "only player to show up in both series" with an OPS under .700 is blatantly a pro-Braun bias. He has not been good. Case in point right here; one hard-hit double with a .558 OPS in the series proves me wrong? Okay. You are reaching to support a strong pro-Braun bias.

Aren't you the guy that was making the argument at the beginning of the season that Jared Hughes was more important to the team than Aguilar?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Man, I just really don't want the season to end tomorrow.

[coolhandluke121]

Aren't you the guy that was making the argument at the beginning of the season that Jared Hughes was more important to the team than Aguilar?

 

I mean he quite literally had a higher WAR than Aguilar this year. Not that that has ANYTHING to do with this discussion.

[82brewcrew82]

Aren't you the guy that was making the argument at the beginning of the season that Jared Hughes was more important to the team than Aguilar?

 

I mean he quite literally had a higher WAR than Aguilar this year. Not that that has ANYTHING to do with this discussion.

LOL, Ok.

[coolhandluke121]

I think what most are getting at is that you seem kind of fixated just on Braun in a lot of posts as some crux of the problem, when he hasn't been near the worst.

 

Except I didn't even make a big deal of it. I said Granderson should have more than 3 plate appearances and get a start against the RHP. It's the Braun Police that have to overreact to anything like that who made a big deal of it. It's not a hot take, a mere symptom of Braun hate, or a fixation. There's sufficient evidence to support the argument. It's debatable at worst, but some people here are trying to turn any disloyalty to Braun into something sacrilegious.

[tmwiese55]

I think what most are getting at is that you seem kind of fixated just on Braun in a lot of posts as some crux of the problem, when he hasn't been near the worst.

 

Except I didn't even make a big deal of it. I said Granderson should have more than 3 plate appearances and get a start against the RHP. It's the Braun Police that have to overreact to anything like that who made a big deal of it. It's not a hot take, a mere symptom of Braun hate, or a fixation. There's sufficient evidence to support the argument. It's debatable at worst, but some people here are trying to turn any disloyalty to Braun into something sacrilegious.

 

This isn't the only time you've pushed it and I think people remember your name easily haha, whereas many names just blend in. At least they do to me anyway, most of the time I have no idea who made what points when or any history. Yours stands out easily so I think that's a bigger part of it actually. Just my two cents that I think people have gotten an anti-Braun sentiment or push from you. And in this case he really hasn't been that bad just not good, especially compared to how awful the rest of the lineup has been. Everyone has been bad so I think it seems odd to single him out.

 

To the real point though, if they win tomorrow this actually becomes relevant. Start Braun in Game 7 or Grandy? I mean no way they don't start Braun especially considering he did get the double off him last game. I'd really be curious how much Braun has kept fresh at 1B, I bet not at all since Jesus became every day.

 

I was watching some MBL network earlier and they had Bauer from Cle on talking about pitching. And the examples they were showing just had me thinking it's crazy how many breaking balls our guys have been swinging at out of the zone, Braun included, almost like you could coach them to literally not swing at a curve until two strikes and it would probably have made a huge difference. He ws showing some ABs Hous had vs him and making points about how Ps just hate to see hitters spit on breaking balls out of the zone, like it almost rattles them a bit. Or at least gets their head spinning regarding what they hitter is looking for. Yes we have swung away over and over at curves in the dirt.

 

ETA: I forgot on the eye test D discussion. Yea, that's why they've tried to create these advanced stats to judge it as best as possible. And those have Grandy as awful, which you wrote off as not trusting and that you're test says he looks fine. So it can't go both ways.

[Boomer5]

Honestly if we're really looking at a way to get Granderson multiple at-bats in one of these games, it should probably be at the expense of out coldest hitter. And that player is likely to win the 2018 National League MVP. I know we're all waiting for Yelich to break out of it ... but time is running out.

 

But no, Braun isn't sitting. If he was comfortable getting a game in at 1B, though, we could play him there, and have the ice-cold Aguilar take a seat in one of these games.

 

Or I guess we'll just have to depend on Grandy to come up big in his final two at bats in the next two games.

 

I agree. We need to play the guys who are making hard contact regardless of the name on the back of their jersey.

[Boomer5]

I think what most are getting at is that you seem kind of fixated just on Braun in a lot of posts as some crux of the problem, when he hasn't been near the worst.

 

Except I didn't even make a big deal of it. I said Granderson should have more than 3 plate appearances and get a start against the RHP. It's the Braun Police that have to overreact to anything like that who made a big deal of it. It's not a hot take, a mere symptom of Braun hate, or a fixation. There's sufficient evidence to support the argument. It's debatable at worst, but some people here are trying to turn any disloyalty to Braun into something sacrilegious.

 

Braun is hitting the ball reasonably well. Why would he be the guy to sit?

[homer]

I think what most are getting at is that you seem kind of fixated just on Braun in a lot of posts as some crux of the problem, when he hasn't been near the worst.

 

Except I didn't even make a big deal of it. I said Granderson should have more than 3 plate appearances and get a start against the RHP. It's the Braun Police that have to overreact to anything like that who made a big deal of it. It's not a hot take, a mere symptom of Braun hate, or a fixation. There's sufficient evidence to support the argument. It's debatable at worst, but some people here are trying to turn any disloyalty to Braun into something sacrilegious.

 

 

This is your evidence:

 

Braun has been swinging away at the first pitch at the worst possible time on a regular basis and has taken 58 pitches this series by my count. That's less than 3 per plate appearance. Granderson is a more disciplined hitter whose approach translates better to postseason baseball, and even his regular season production has been every bit as good as Braun's for 2 years now. He's taken 17 pitches in just 3 appearances, made good contact on a regular basis, and nearly came up with one of the greatest clutch HR's in Brewers history in his first at-bat. He also has a lot more experience in RF than Braun, allowing Yelich to stay in LF.

 

It's not very convincing because it's all based on teeny, tiny samples. The team as a whole hasn't taken a lot of pitches so it stands to reason that's by design - attack early in the count. And if your argument is that a guy one time nearly hit a clutch home run so he should now start then I don't know what to tell ya.

[tmwiese55]

"The team as a whole hasn't taken a lot of pitches so it stands to reason that's by design - attack early in the count."

 

Yea I think I agree with this and I agree that it was likely the wrong move coaching wise. Kind of gets into what I said about Bauer on MLB network. It sure seems like that has been the gameplan and it seems wrong. Best example is Cain, he's been so heavy on taking pitches all year then this series he's done the opposite, it had to be pushed that way. Until last game and he shockingly had his only good game. I really hope they move on from Coles this year, I don't wanna be a hot take blame just one guy or anything. So it's not like I'm screaming to fire him but I think it's time for a change up

[superfly]

Sit Ryan Braun? The absurdity has reached all time highs. The TEAM isn't hitting.

 

Now if we want to talk about guys that shouldn't see the field, why did Schoop see an entire game's worth of hideous at bats for the first time in 10 days as Travis Shaw warmed the bench? There was ample opportunity to PH for him as well later in the game.

[Boomer5]

Man, I just really don't want the season to end tomorrow.

 

I have a very bad feeling about our offense. This isn’t working and I feel like running the same guys out there in the same order is the definition of insanity.

 

On the other hand this team did just win 12 straight, all pressure packed games.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Baseball is a funny game. Things can go 180 degrees in a day. Nothing to do but enjoy another day and hope they figure something out. They hit this guy last time. They can do it again.