2018-10-04 (NLDS Game #1): Rockies (Senzatela) at Brewers (Woodruff/Bullpen) 4:07 PM CDT [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 Innings -- Blown Save in 9th; Moustakas Walk-Off Hit in 10th]

[MadScientist]

Bullpen game sounds odd to start a playoff series, but it makes a lot of sense.

1) It plays to the strength of the team.

2) Pitchers are usually most effective the first time through a lineup.

3) Using a PH pretty much every time the pitchers spot come up is like getting a DH in the lineup against one without.

4) The days off keep the bullpen from being burned out in a series.

 

The Brewers have taken the lessons of the 2011 Cards and the 2015 Royals and extended them. Plus added creative use of the lineup to maximize offense, while making extensive use of shifting to minimize the defensive liability of having someone like Shaw at 2nd. It's not traditional, but Septembers results say it's effective.

[Brewcrewin07]

Bullpen game sounds odd to start a playoff series, but it makes a lot of sense.

1) It plays to the strength of the team.

2) Pitchers are usually most effective the first time through a lineup.

3) Using a PH pretty much every time the pitchers spot come up is like getting a DH in the lineup against one without.

4) The days off keep the bullpen from being burned out in a series.

 

The Brewers have taken the lessons of the 2011 Cards and the 2015 Royals and extended them. Plus added creative use of the lineup to maximize offense, while making extensive use of shifting to minimize the defensive liability of having someone like Shaw at 2nd. It's not traditional, but Septembers results say it's effective.

 

#1 is the key...it plays to the strength of the team...IF you are using the right guys..Now, realistically & hypothetically speaking, if it was doable and you wanted a bullpen day you would use NO ONE other than Soria, Knebel, Jeffress, Hader...THAT's the TRUE strength of the team...those 4. At some point you HAVE to use lessor bullpen arms than those 4, and the #'s would say it is MORE likely to blow up in your face at some point, then not.

 

I'm not a Wade Miley truther by any stretch, but...he deserves a start..the guy has done NOTHING to not deserve one. 3 or less earned runs in every single start this year?? I figured for sure, he'd start game 1(it's his turn in the rotation), Gio game 2, Chacin game 3. Bullpen when necessary. I think(but hope not) this is Counsell getting too cute with things. There is no tomorrow now, this is the playoffs, it's win or go home.

 

I said it before and I will say it again, it's like Counsell is managing this like he EXPECTS to lose a game in this series...why not try to end it in 3??

[coolhandluke121]

Another thing to note generally in regards to the thoughts of 'this could really blow up in Counsel's face, he's overthinking,' etc type of views and that he'll get crucified if it doesn't work. Well, that's really only the case because it's forward thinking. How would giving up 5 runs in 4 innings with this strategy be any different than if he started a normal starter who did the same thing. The only difference is that's the way it's always been, generally speaking just because something hasn't been done before isn't a reason not to do it. And a manger shouldn't avoid doing something just to eliminate chances of himself being criticized. Think of the Marcum example, wouldn't it have been to think outside the box instead of trotting him out there in the 2011 playoffs when he was done.

 

Yeah, I'm very prone to getting out of hand over some cliched statements and this would be one of them.

 

I already had a few water cooler discussions of, "the A's got too cute last night" with some people that don't even do critical thinking and consider the fact that any mediocre starting pitcher is also liable to give up that same offensive output against the Yankees.

 

As long as you have data to support what you're trying, it should be encouraged. Let's take a moment to appreciate how lucky we are to be fans of a team that has that type of culture ingrained at this point. It's one of the better fan experiences in all of sports IMO. I'll take being a fan of one of the smartest teams over one of the richest teams every time.

 

Another big example that really ticked me off was starting Suppan instead of Manny Parra against Philly's brutal LHB lineup - not that they had a chance to beat the Phillies either way.

[coolhandluke121]

I'm not a Wade Miley truther by any stretch, but...he deserves a start..the guy has done NOTHING to not deserve one.

 

Though it may seem mathematically impossible, somehow the bullpen has done even less to not deserve multiple starts in the series.

[wildcat83]

I was in the same boat as people thinking Peralta would be the "opener" in one of the Colorado games. If they have him throw a few innings today, he could still come back and throw in game 4. That would seem to line up well. His fastball percentage just plays too well in CO to not have him throw there.

 

Peralta is the likely initial out getter in Colorado for game 3.

 

 

Based on what? I haven't seen that stated by the Brewers, or even reported anywhere.

[dlk9s]

Official - Saw this literally seconds after I posted.

 

Cain

Yelich

Braun

Shaw

Aguilar

Moustakas

Pina

Arcia

 

Well, looks like Yelich made the 25-man roster. I'll be interested to see who got bumped for him.

[YelichPosse]

Official - Saw this literally seconds after I posted.

 

Cain

Yelich

Braun

Shaw

Aguilar

Moustakas

Pina

Arcia

 

Well, looks like Yelich made the 25-man roster. I'll be interested to see who got bumped for him.

 

Word has it Javier Baez got bumped from a DS roster in lieu of Christian Yelich.

[OnaBadger58]

Getting a clean top of the 1st will go a long way in this game. Don't care how it gets done, just keep a 0 on that scoreboard.

[fondybrewfan]

With the off days the Brewers can probably, rather comfortably, count on 5-6 innings out of bullpen every night. A starter should never have to go through the order a 3rd time unless they deserve it.

 

I will be curious what they do with Hader and Burnes. I would much rather they stick to 1 inning outings so maybe they can pitch 3-4 times in the series rather than 2 inning outing where maybe you can use them twice.

[wildcat83]

25-MAN NLDS ROSTER

 

Pitchers (11): RH Corbin Burnes, RH Jhoulys Chacin, LH Gio Gonzalez, RH Junior Guerra, LH Josh Hader, RH Jeremy Jeffress, RH Corey Knebel, LH Wade Miley, RH Freddy Peralta, RH Joakim Soria, RH Brandon Woodruff.

 

Catchers (2): Erik Kratz, Manny Pina.

 

Infielders (6): Jesus Aguilar, Orlando Arcia, Mike Moustakas, Hernan Perez, Jonathan Schoop, Travis Shaw.

 

Outfielders (6): Ryan Braun, Keon Broxton, Lorenzo Cain, Curtis Granderson, Domingo Santana, Christian Yelich.

[dlk9s]

I have this gnawing feeling that we need to win the first two games. I don't like the idea of needing to beat the Rockies' two best pitchers in Colorado to stay alive. I'm not saying I'm pessimistic, I'm just nervous.

 

Maybe I should tilt toward pessimistic, as I had a negative prediction about Game 163 and I was clearly wrong.

[wildcat83]

That roster seems really light on pitching. Xavier Cedeno not making the roster is shocking to me. I would have thought they would have gone with 1 more arm and 1 less bat.

[jason21nl]

I went to lunch at 12pm today and was doing good. It's now 1:30 and my legs won't stop moving. I'm nervous as all hell!

[StearnBrewliever]

Broxton over Cedeno blows my mind in a series where Craig is openly bullpenning.

[OnaBadger58]

I went to lunch at 12pm today and was doing good. It's now 1:30 and my legs won't stop moving. I'm nervous as all hell!

Feel like time stopped moving... This game may never happen.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Broxton over Cedeno blows my mind in a series where Craig is openly bullpenning.

 

Cedeno's Brewer tenure started very positively, but he has not been good his last few times out. The look of disgust on Counsell's face when Cedeno failed to record an out on Monday was probably the clincher. When you are a LOOGY, you need to get lefties out.

[Brewcrewin07]

Broxton over Cedeno blows my mind in a series where Craig is openly bullpenning.

 

+1000...I don't see the need for Broxton at all...At least not with Santana...one or the other, but not both. Cedeno not being on it absolutely floored me. I assumed he was a lock.

[pacopete4]

Broxton isn't needed IMO either but in saying that he will probably have some huge play at some point to prove me wrong.

[KeithStone53151]

Broxton isn't needed IMO either but in saying that he will probably have some huge play at some point to prove me wrong.

 

He'll make a good play in RF or steal 2nd and score a run in one of these games. He'll be nice to have assuming we can get by with our 11 pitchers.

[pacopete4]

Broxton isn't needed IMO either but in saying that he will probably have some huge play at some point to prove me wrong.

 

He'll make a good play in RF or steal 2nd and score a run in one of these games. He'll be nice to have assuming we can get by with our 11 pitchers.

 

He might. I just hope he doesn't come off that bench to hit before Santana or Granderson. Just have a feeling we will see him far too often.

[bill hAll Star]

Broxton is the pinch run/defensive replacement guy. The 25th spot probably could've gone any which direction.

 

More lefty pop (Thames)

Pinch run/defense (Broxton)

LOOGY (Cedeno)

 

I can almost guarantee that Cedeno or Jennings would be on the roster against the Dodgers and likely the Braves. More lefties to worry about.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Broxton over Cedeno blows my mind in a series where Craig is openly bullpenning.

 

+1000...I don't see the need for Broxton at all...At least not with Santana...one or the other, but not both. Cedeno not being on it absolutely floored me. I assumed he was a lock.

 

Broxton and Santana are going to serve very different roles for this team. The two are not even close to interchangeable. I'd be very surprised if Broxton touches a bat in this series. I would imagine he's the last offensive player on the bench. But he'll be inserted as a pinch runner and defensive replacement at the end. Santana, though, will be one of the team's prime pinch hitters. I'd be surprised if he sees the outfield grass, though.

 

I gave my thoughts on Cedeno in the previous post. But there really isn't much need for a LOOGY in this series. If they need a lefty, Miley or Gio can come in, and give you length as a bonus.

[OnaBadger58]

Broxton over Cedeno blows my mind in a series where Craig is openly bullpenning.

 

+1000...I don't see the need for Broxton at all...At least not with Santana...one or the other, but not both. Cedeno not being on it absolutely floored me. I assumed he was a lock.

 

Our rotation doesn't go deep into games. Can you afford to keep a pitcher that is used for one player with a 25 man roster? Maybe, maybe not.

 

Keon, imo, is mainly on the team to be that pinch runner for late game situations (see Terrance Gore). Keon will also be subbed in defensively in late game situations. Keon is not on the roster for his offense.

[TURBO]

As long as Broxton doesn't pinch run for someone (Shaw, Jesus) then have to bat 2 or 3 times in an extra inning game...

[TURBO]

Keon will also be subbed in defensively in late game situations. Keon is not on the roster for his offense.

 

I hope that Keon wouldn't be substituted in on defense for Cain or Yelich, who unless injured, better be playing every inning in the play-offs. That leaves Braun, and I don't wnat his bat out of the line-up either. Big lead, sure, Keon for Braun defensively. Slide Yelich to Left and Keon in RF.