Hitting Philosophies: Cubs vs. Brewers vs. Others... oh my!

[Samurai Bucky]

As I was watching the game last night, it seemed that the Cubs were more apt to take a Three Possible Outcomes (3PO) approach to their at bats. Maybe it is because I focused solely on Javy Baez [sarcasm]since he is the most exciting player in baseball.[/sarcasm] When the Rockies scored the go ahead run, the batter was not trying to hit the ball hard on two strikes -- he was trying to put the ball in play. Likewise, looking at a lot of Brewers hitters, they do much better when they a) focus on more on contact with two strikes; and b) use all fields.

 

During the World Series two years ago, one point of focus was on how the Astros had reduced their team strikeout totals. In 2016, they K'd 1452 times. In 2017, they K'd 1087 times. This season, the Astros k'd 1197 times. This year, 3 of the teams with the fewest K's made the playoffs. (Note... it is a little bit of apples vs. oranges with AL and NL teams since NL teams hit the pitcher).

 

How about the Brewers? Last year, they K'd 1571 times (worst in MLB). Ouch. This year, they reduced the number to 1458 (still 24 out of 30 teams). Not as significant as the Astros, but a push in the right direction. Maybe it is because David Stearns is looking for players that will put the ball in play more often.

 

I know this is only one part of what makes a team go, but the approach the Cubs seem to have at the plate vs. the Brewers seems much different. I am liking the approach at the plate for the Brewers.

 

Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[liveforoctober]

As I was watching the game last night, it seemed that the Cubs were more apt to take a Three Possible Outcomes (3PO) approach to their at bats. Maybe it is because I focused solely on Javy Baez [sarcasm]since he is the most exciting player in baseball.[/sarcasm] When the Rockies scored the go ahead run, the batter was not trying to hit the ball hard on two strikes -- he was trying to put the ball in play. Likewise, looking at a lot of Brewers hitters, they do much better when they a) focus on more on contact with two strikes; and b) use all fields.

 

During the World Series two years ago, one point of focus was on how the Astros had reduced their team strikeout totals. In 2016, they K'd 1452 times. In 2017, they K'd 1087 times. This season, the Astros k'd 1197 times. This year, 3 of the teams with the fewest K's made the playoffs. (Note... it is a little bit of apples vs. oranges with AL and NL teams since NL teams hit the pitcher).

 

How about the Brewers? Last year, they K'd 1571 times (worst in MLB). Ouch. This year, they reduced the number to 1458 (still 24 out of 30 teams). Not as significant as the Astros, but a push in the right direction. Maybe it is because David Stearns is looking for players that will put the ball in play more often.

 

I know this is only one part of what makes a team go, but the approach the Cubs seem to have at the plate vs. the Brewers seems much different. I am liking the approach at the plate for the Brewers.

 

Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

Without looking at the numbers, I'd be willing to bet the strikeout differential from last season to this is going from an outfield of Santana/Broxton/Braun to Yelich/Cain/Braun. I'm guessing

those two additions to the team reduced 100+ strikeouts from our totals...

[TooLiveBrew]

Just comparing those three players from '17 & '18

 

2017 Santana/Broxton/Braun: 429 Ks

 

2018 Yelich/Cain/Braun: 314 Ks

[Underachiever]

Just comparing those three players from '17 & '18

 

2017 Santana/Broxton/Braun: 429 Ks

 

2018 Yelich/Cain/Braun: 314 Ks

Difference from those three year-to-year (429 to 314): 115

Team total difference year-to-year (1571 to 1458): 113

 

So you were WAY off.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Isn't this what we all expected when Cain and Yelich were brought in? Not to diminish the OP, but yeah the idea was to make more contact and they have. I suspect they'll continue to try and do so and that their acquisitions going forward will reflect that.

[Lathund]

I don't think Stearns ever wanted a strikeout-prone team, I think it was largely a result of those being the players available in the bargain bin, that perhaps other teams were devaluing those players too much. Or maybe they didn't, and he was simply looking at the upside if they did get it under control. I mean it's easy to see in a guy like Keon Broxton; If he ever became even a .250-.260 hitter he'd be a star, with that power, speed and defense. It may have been highly unlikely that ever happened, but with where the Brewers were at the time, there was no downside to taking that chance. That being said, I don't think the Brewers will ever be among the lowest K% teams in the league. They do value power a lot still. Power and patience, so not really the free-swinging type of power, but that does come with a fair amount of strikeouts. And there's a difference between striking out swinging at three pitches outside the zone, and striking out due to being selective with what you swing at. The latter will also draw walks, the former won't.

 

With regards to the OP; Cubs fans really don't like Chili Davis, their new hitting coach. But for quite the opposite reason you're suggesting; Their K rate has actually gone down, which is good. But with that, so has their power. Davis is (From what I've gathered from Cubs fans and articles about the Cubs etc) a proponent of situational hitting, making contact, hitting to all fields etc. Cubs fans believe this isn't really suited to todays game, or perhaps rather that it isn't suited to their current players. Their issue as an offense also hasn't been that it's bad, but that it's wildly inconsistent, with only the Orioles scoring 0-1 runs more times than the Cubs, yet the Cubs having a good total # of runs scored.

 

It'd be interesting to see more on what makes an offense inconsistent; I, and from discussions on here many others too, usually associate it with HR-reliant offenses. No HRs = no runs, basically. But I'm perhaps beginning to reconsider that a bit, simply for the reason that a HR isn't reliant on anything but itself. I mean you can have 9 singles in a game; if they all happen in one inning, you score like 7-8 runs. If they happen one in each inning, you likely score nothing. An offense based on putting the ball in play and just making contact relies on sequencing, a HR offense doesn't. If you hit a HR you score at least one run. There's also the correlation between power and getting on base. A HR threat gets fewer pitches to hit, and thus walks more, which can in turn set up the contact-oriented play when needed. And plays well with base-stealing abilities.

 

Anyway, I don't really think it's an either/or situation. You obviously want both, finding the right balance between the two is the challenge.

[obobo55new]

Personally I link big innings to high walks. When pitchers struggle to find the plate, they allow free baserunners and are far more prone to then also be forced into throwing a meatball that gets crushed.

 

How that correlates with the Cubs inconsistency...no clue.

 

Actually, I will speculate that when the Cubs offense clicks against the starter, the opposing managers frequently go to their poor bullpen options and that yields high outputs that skew their overall stats. Their overall lineup has more threats than most teams but may lack the top level guys (particularly with Bryant struggling this year). Just a guess...

[Oxy]

It is always a cat-and-mouse game between hitting philosophies and pitching philosophies. Both of those things will be highly dependent upon game situation--score, inning, # of outs, baserunners, and who is on deck/in the hole.

 

There is no overarching philosophy that works for all situations. Every player has certain strengths and weaknesses, and having a bench full of differently skilled players allows for a manager to effectively play to the situation and score runs--or perhaps score A run, if 1 run is all you need.

[FVBrewerFan]

The Cubs led the league in OBP for most of the year, not sure if they ended up there at the end. So I definitely wouldn't call their hitting philosophy 3TO. I just think they were worn out at the end of the year, and that's on Maddon.

[obobo55new]

I'll add to my previous speculation that lesser pitchers probably tried to avoid the Cubs "top" hitters and walked them which inevitably led to bigger innings when they made a mistake to their "still pretty good" secondary guys.

 

While this obviously happens with all teams, it's possible that facing a multi-year champ team like the Cubs scares those with less than premier stuff. When they faced the better pitchers that went right at those guys, they either hit a solo HR or were put out and thus scored less overall.

[DHonks]

It also helps that Yelich and Cain are line drive hitters. They don’t swing for the fences every time

[Ennder]

I don't know that the 3 of the teams with the lowest K's made the playoffs thing really matters. Teams that are out of it tend to bring up a lot of younger players, younger players tend to K a lot more. That part is probably just noise.

 

I don't really care very much how often a player strikes out, I just want them to take walks and get on base. Cain not striking out as much as say Broxton is useful, Cain carrying 96 more points of OBP than Broxton did last year is what really drives the value and those two things aren't mutually exclusive.