Is this the best Brewer team?

[phnxcrew]

2011 the strength was the rotation, and greinke/ marcum hust crumbled in the postseason. This year starters don’t matter. We could literally go all bullpen every game. I would say that this offense is actually more balanced than 2011. You had fielder and Braun then Lucroy as the only consistent hitter. Hart was always extremely inconsistent. I’d argue a lot of guys in the current lineup have underachieved the whole season and seem to be warming up at the right time.

[fondybrewfan]

I would put 2011 ahead of them right now but my enjoyment level is higher for this team primarily because I believe this isn't going to be a flash in the pan. In 2011 we knew we might not get another chance with Prince leaving after that year. Not only will this team return basically everyone of consequence there are likely reinforcements on the way and likely room in the budget to further improve the team. Even if they don't make the WS this year I feel like we will have a shot at it for the next 3-4 years yet.

[MrTPlush]

I would put 2011 ahead of them right now but my enjoyment level is higher for this team primarily because I believe this isn't going to be a flash in the pan. In 2011 we knew we might not get another chance with Prince leaving after that year. Not only will this team return basically everyone of consequence there are likely reinforcements on the way and likely room in the budget to further improve the team. Even if they don't make the WS this year I feel like we will have a shot at it for the next 3-4 years yet.

 

Pretty crazy to think about how much we can improve this team and it is on pace to win 94 games...I mean wow. I think the nice thing is a lot of these guys are playing realistically or even worse than you would expect. Important thing is to improve somewhere on offense, make sure the bullpen doesn't fade away, and hopefully snag a flashy starter. There is a lot less fluke in this team versus last year.

[coolhandluke121]

What's crazy about this team is that you could almost divide it in half and still have probably one winning team and another team that's not terrible:

 

1B: Aguilar/Thames

2B: Schoop/Perez

SS: Arcia/Saladino

3B: Shaw/Moustakas

LF: Yelich/Braun

CF: Cain/Broxton

RF: Granderson/Santana

C: Pina/Kratz

 

Then if the starters stayed healthy, you would have Chacin, Anderson, Davies, Nelson, Peralta, Guerra, Miley, Gonzalez, Woodruff, and Suter to form two serviceable 5-man rotations. The bullpens would lack depth but you could still divide the current pen in half and have two bullpens that were better than what they had before Swarzak and Hader last year.

 

Obviously not all those guys are healthy and they didn't have everyone all year, but it's a testament to the kind of depth they acquired that it's something you can even suggest with a straight face.

[Jenkins5]

I’m not sure this is even the 2nd best this decade. I think it is deepest as a whole & maybe strongest bullpen. Going into playoffs with CC, Sheets, Gallardo & Bush then Greinke, Marcum, Yo, Wolfe yield much more confidence entering a game. 2011 was a great team & just exciting. Gomez, Lucroy, Braun, Fielder, Hart, McGehee, Weeks T- Plush.

 

I love the grit, depth, & bullpen but with a rotation of backend arms doesn’t give me as much confidence. Chacin has been great but he’s not an elite guy. Anderson is best in league at giving up long ball. Davies is a guy who can be good or real bad based on command that night. Miley has been great but playing way above where he has been. No one guy gives you the confidence that we had with CC, Sheets, Yo, Greinke, or even Marcum (even though he sucked in playoffs)

[SRB]

No one guy gives you the confidence that we had with CC, Sheets, Yo, Greinke, or even Marcum (even though he sucked in playoffs)

 

No one guy, but the bullpen is simply incredible and inspires a lot more confidence than Salomon Torres.

[Jimbo]

The hitting ability of the 1979 team was exemplified by the fact that they were only shutout once during the season, and it was on the last game of the schedule with most of the bench inserted into the lineup. They put up 95 wins but were out of the race in August.

 

In the 9th inning of the final game, Ray Fosse's long drive hits the top of the railing and stays in for a triple. The game ends with him stranded at third. That also was *his* final game.

[SoCalBrewfan]

By pythagorean ratio, the top three teams are 1982, 1978, and 1992. The current team is sixth (2011 is fifth, '79 in seventh, but they're close enough that the ranking could easily change depending on the final three games this year).

 

Those top three teams all led the league in something; '82 and '78 led the league in runs scored, but were 10th and 5th in runs allowed. It looks crazy that the '82 squad was tenth in a 14 team league in runs allowed and still won the pennant, but there was a tight bunching in the middle of the pack and they were only 7 runs behind the fifth best ...and of course they scored almost 80 runs above the 2nd-best Angels.

 

The '92 squad was very unusual by Brewers standards, allowed the fewest runs in the league but were 5th in runs scored. Though it's close, I think the best Brewers team is one of those three, and given the postseason success I'd have to give it to the '82 team.

 

The '11 team and this one were in the top half in both runs scored and allowed (5th and 6th in '11, 7th and 5th this year). For that matter, '79 was 4th/5th, arguably a bit better than either '11 or '18.

 

You'll notice that I didn't mention the 4th-best pythag...aka the team that deserved better. The 1980 squad won 88 but pythag says they should have won 94. Cecil Cooper hit .352 but nobody noticed because George Brett was chasing .400. And even 94 wins wouldn't have helped, because both the Yankees and Orioles won 100+ that year.

 

For those youngsters who tire of hearing about those 1978-83 Brewers, well, I get that. But this list might suggest why some old timers get so nostalgic about them...these were legit year in year out contenders, whereas the more recent history has single years of near glory surrounded by a few years of decent play. For all that those 80s teams had the reputation of being sluggers with no pitching, they were generally in the top third of the league in preventing runs, and had better starting pitching than the current team. That's not to take anything from the current team, of course...also there's hope that the current iteration will have a bit more staying power than some past versions, thankfully.

[GoToHelfaer]

I’m 32 and really started my rabid fandom in 94. I don’t really care if this is the best team, or Top 5. My excitement lies in the fact of how the rebuild and playoffs were achieved. There was no gutting the Minors to land a piece and there is no essential piece that is probably going to walk at seasons’ end.

 

I’m drinking the Stearns Kool Aid.

[3and2Fastball]

We'll see. Would have to at least go to the World Series if this team is as good or better than the '82 Brewers.

 

I do think Stearns is the best Brewers GM ever.

[TURBO]

There was no gutting the Minors to land a piece and there is no essential piece that is probably going to walk at seasons’ end.

 

 

Well, we surely did give up some big pieces to form our current roster, that is for sure. Is our farm "gutted?" That remains to be seen.

 

Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, Gilbert Lara, Kodi Medeiros, Demi Orimoloye, Jorge Lopez, Brett Phillips, Jean Carmona, and Luis Ortiz.

 

There are a bunch of top prospects in that group. Those aren't a bunch of names that didn't hurt...

 

I just hope that the end result was worth it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

There was no gutting the Minors to land a piece and there is no essential piece that is probably going to walk at seasons’ end.

 

 

Well, we surely did give up some big pieces to form our current roster, that is for sure. Is our farm "gutted?" That remains to be seen.

 

Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, Gilbert Lara, Kodi Medeiros, Demi Orimoloye, Jorge Lopez, Brett Phillips, Jean Carmona, and Luis Ortiz.

 

There are a bunch of top prospects in that group. Those aren't a bunch of names that didn't hurt...

 

I just hope that the end result was worth it.

 

While the ultimate goal is a World Series, a sub-goal (I guess) is making the playoffs. This team did that this year, and has the makings of being a contender for the next 3-4 years. I agree that giving up some of those guys did make a dent in the farm system, but the goal of having a strong farm isn't always to graduate all those guys to the MLB club either. Developing your minor leaguers also increases their value to other big league clubs, enabling you to trade some off for immediate MLB help, or to fill a hole on a title contender. I'd say Stearns effectively used the farm system to fill holes both ways this year.

[JosephC]

By pythagorean ratio, the top three teams are 1982, 1978, and 1992. The current team is sixth (2011 is fifth, '79 in seventh, but they're close enough that the ranking could easily change depending on the final three games this year).

 

Those top three teams all led the league in something; '82 and '78 led the league in runs scored, but were 10th and 5th in runs allowed. It looks crazy that the '82 squad was tenth in a 14 team league in runs allowed and still won the pennant, but there was a tight bunching in the middle of the pack and they were only 7 runs behind the fifth best ...and of course they scored almost 80 runs above the 2nd-best Angels.

 

The '92 squad was very unusual by Brewers standards, allowed the fewest runs in the league but were 5th in runs scored. Though it's close, I think the best Brewers team is one of those three, and given the postseason success I'd have to give it to the '82 team.

 

 

I went through and figured out the run differential for all of the Brewer teams that played .500+ baseball, and then went through and looked at league rankings in things like runs/game, ERA, FIP, defensive efficiency. After doing so, I'd name the three teams that you did but would also include the 1980 team, which was the 4th best team in franchise history in terms of run differential. They were 3rd in runs scored, 4th in ERA, 5th in defensive efficiency but lagged behind in terms of FIP (10th, these are AL ranks only). I could see where some people would dismiss this team right away, because they were similar to the 1982 team but the 1982 team scored 0.46 additional runs per game which is very significant (the 1982 team surrendered 0.19 more runs per game than the 1980 team).

 

The team that seemed to be the best "across the board" is, surprisingly, the 1992 team. Third best in franchise history in run differential. 5th best in runs scored, 1st in ERA, 6th in FIP and 1st in defensive efficiency. They allowed 3.73 runs per game, which was a full 0.30 better than the next best team in the AL (Twins). It's astounding when looking at the team's slash line (.268/.330/.375/.705) to think that this team was solidly above average in runs scored. But they stole 256 bases that year, had the fewest grounded into double plays, and has the second lowest total of runners left in base in the AL despite the OBP being in the top half of the league. Really sort of a remarkable team, I could see why they would be dismissed because of some poor slash lines in the everyday lineup, but the bottom line is runs scored and they were top 5 in the AL and that went along with some pretty good pitching.

 

One team that flies under the radar a little bit when just looking at run differential is the 1987 team. They were a +45, which wouldn't even rank in the top 10 in franchise history. But that team was second in runs scored and third in FIP (AL only). However, the ERA was 9th and the defensive efficiency was 13th...it sure looks like a team that could have done much better had they been able to play some defense.

[pacopete4]

There was no gutting the Minors to land a piece and there is no essential piece that is probably going to walk at seasons’ end.

 

 

Well, we surely did give up some big pieces to form our current roster, that is for sure. Is our farm "gutted?" That remains to be seen.

 

Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, Gilbert Lara, Kodi Medeiros, Demi Orimoloye, Jorge Lopez, Brett Phillips, Jean Carmona, and Luis Ortiz.

 

There are a bunch of top prospects in that group. Those aren't a bunch of names that didn't hurt...

 

I just hope that the end result was worth it.

 

Holding onto Burnes and Peralta is the biggest part of this equation. Buying/trading for pitching just costs too much these days. And being in the smallest market doesn't help that. Burnes/Peralta/Woodruff allows us to have a future if even one of those three becomes the starter some believe they can be.

[splitterpfj]

No, this is not the best Brewer team.

 

I can remember back to 1974, with strong recollection from 1976 on - 1978 and '79, the Brewers were great fun, with big power, and Mike Caldwell pitching great at the front of the rotation - but other teams were even better, at a time when only two teams from each league made the playoffs.

 

The team backslid a bit in 1980, then made the playoffs the next two years, before another slide, and then a steep falloff, which led to a wave of youth from '85 forward.

 

The 1982 team was the most talented team this franchise has ever had, and Robin Yount was everything Christian Yelich has been this season. That was the best team in baseball that year, and they would have won the World Series, with better health in October. Rollie Fingers, the best closer in MLB history at that point, was not available for most of September, and all of October - all by itself, that made the difference, but don't forget - key contributors Pete Vuckovich and Gorman Thomas were also playing with bad shoulders at that point.

 

The 1987 team gets overlooked, but it shouldn't. They struggled to find a reliable 5th starter, for one thing, but the big issue that year was the hamstring injury that shelved Paul Molitor when the Brewers were soaring. Right after that injury, the Brewers lost 12 straight games. As young pitching solidified behind Teddy Higuera, and with Dan Plesac and Chuck Crim in the bullpen, the Brewers got hot again, but missed the playoffs. Again, only two teams from each league made the playoffs then, which took them down in the end.

 

In 1988, the Brewers pitched very well, and like the prior year, they made a late run, but didn't get there.

 

The 1992 team was outstanding, and they did just fine against the Blue Jays that year - had more teams gone to the playoffs then, the Brewers would have been in, and they were hot at the right time if they had made it.

 

The 2011 team had one issue - a major shortcoming on the left side of the infield. They partially plugged that with the addition of Jerry Hairston Jr, but it was a real issue. Nonetheless, that team had enough to win the World Series - they absolutely could have, but that isn't what happened.

 

This team, right now, is not the, "best team" the Brewers have ever fielded, but it may very well be the team with the best chance to win the World Series. I say that, because, this team is built to win the type of games you most often see in the postseason.

 

The teams you'll face, are the best teams - so you don't face the type of pitching that allows you to just go up and club them off the field - you have to have smart at bats, you have to have smart base running, you have to have tight defense, and you have to pitch well under pressure.

 

The other guys are good, too - but this team plays good defense, it runs the bases well, it shows discipline at the plate, it can hit homers, but it can win if it doesn't, and it's depth of pitchers that can shut down good hitting, is excellent.

 

IF the starting pitchers don't fall apart, this team is equipped to become the first World Series winner the Brewers have had, "best team", or not.

[markedman5]

I'm not sure this team is 'equipped" to be the first World Series winner.....starting pitching or not.

 

Not with the Red Sox, Houston, A's, Indians or Yankees waiting.We would be big underdogs no matter who we would face.

 

I'm just hoping we can win the wild card game assuming that is where we end up. So much luck and randomness in baseball......1 game and we are out.

[markedman5]

There was no gutting the Minors to land a piece and there is no essential piece that is probably going to walk at seasons’ end.

 

 

Well, we surely did give up some big pieces to form our current roster, that is for sure. Is our farm "gutted?" That remains to be seen.

 

Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, Gilbert Lara, Kodi Medeiros, Demi Orimoloye, Jorge Lopez, Brett Phillips, Jean Carmona, and Luis Ortiz.

 

There are a bunch of top prospects in that group. Those aren't a bunch of names that didn't hurt...

 

I just hope that the end result was worth it.

 

 

it's already been worth it.........we made the playoffs for the 5th time in history.......none of those guys are sure things and many were dealt from positions of strength. We acquired the likely MVP and have him under contract for 4 more years......We still have Burnes and our other top pitching prospects...we still have Hiura.

[splitterpfj]

I'm not sure this team is 'equipped" to be the first World Series winner.....starting pitching or not.

 

Not with the Red Sox, Houston, A's, Indians or Yankees waiting.We would be big underdogs no matter who we would face.

 

I'm just hoping we can win the wild card game assuming that is where we end up. So much luck and randomness in baseball......1 game and we are out.

 

I didn't say the Brewers are the favorites, and there's nothing that says multiple teams can't be equipped to win it at the same time, I'm saying this Brewers team is built to win in the postseason, and to win the World Series. I stand by that.

[Bombers]

I'm not sure this team is 'equipped" to be the first World Series winner.....starting pitching or not.

 

Not with the Red Sox, Houston, A's, Indians or Yankees waiting.We would be big underdogs no matter who we would face.

 

I'm just hoping we can win the wild card game assuming that is where we end up. So much luck and randomness in baseball......1 game and we are out.

 

I didn't say the Brewers are the favorites, and there's nothing that says multiple teams can't be equipped to win it at the same time, I'm saying this Brewers team is built to win in the postseason, and to win the World Series. I stand by that.

 

I agree with that. The recipe if you want to call it that from the Royals of a few years ago is the right recipe for the Brewers to follow. We would all love to have some amazing front line starters that can go 8 and give up 1 run but the reality is we have starters that go 5 or 6 and give up 3. We just shut it down from there and just like the Royals always seem to do, chip away at a lead or build our lead as the other team has stopped scoring. The offense we have is a tough lineup to pitch too. Lots of players who take really good approaches at the plate and are really tough outs. Unlike in years past, if our top 2 hitters (say Cain and Yellich) don't do it all, I feel we can get runs from other spots (Aguilar, Braun, Shaw, Moose, Grandy, etc)

[reillymcshane]

The 1982 team was the best - in my opinion.

 

The offense was just a beast. They averaged 5.47 runs per game - a full fun above league average. 216 HRs. They had three of the top 5 HR hitters in the league. They had Yount, who was otherworldly - 10.5 bWAR. That's extraordinary. They had four guys with a WAR of 4.9 or better. Even amongst the backups, no player with 100+ ABs had less than a .247 BA.

 

The 1982 pitching was solid. It wasn't great, but decent. It got a nice boost when Don Sutton was added during the year - really helping the rotation. Vukovich, Caldwell and Sutton were a nice top three.

 

The 2018 team beats the 1982 team with regard to the bullpen. But pitching usage is so different.

 

In the end, the offensive power of the 1982 team really sets it apart. The 2018 team doesn't have the hitting depth that the 1982 team had. Yelich, Cain, Shaw, and Aguilar was a great core. But Molitor, Yount, Thomas, Oglivie, Cooper, Simmons - that lineup rocked. Even Ganter was decent (hit .295).

 

As noted, the injury to Rollie Fingers was big. In a couple of games in the World Series we were ahead in the 6th/7th inning, and ended up losing. Fingers may have changed that.

[MadScientist]

I'm not sure this team is 'equipped" to be the first World Series winner.....starting pitching or not.

 

Not with the Red Sox, Houston, A's, Indians or Yankees waiting.We would be big underdogs no matter who we would face.

 

I'm just hoping we can win the wild card game assuming that is where we end up. So much luck and randomness in baseball......1 game and we are out.

 

I didn't say the Brewers are the favorites, and there's nothing that says multiple teams can't be equipped to win it at the same time, I'm saying this Brewers team is built to win in the postseason, and to win the World Series. I stand by that.

Also as great as the records of the AL teams are, there were a number of really putrid teams in that league. The Brewers aren't a sure thing against the AL teams, but they have their fair shot.

[obobo55new]

Yeah, don't want to take anything away from Boston as I do think they are really good. But here is their record:

 

Baltimore 16-3

Toronto 15-4

Vs NL East 16-4 (Atl 5-1, Was 3-0, Phl 2-2, NYM 2-1, Mia 4-0)

Texas 6-1

KansasCity 5-1

 

Vs other 10 AL teams 49-40

 

Just an example. If the Brewers finish with 2 wins vs Det, they will have gone 13-7 vs the AL Central. Every AL team plays 33 games vs those teams. A .650 win% translates to 21 or 22 wins. That would be 8 or 9 more wins instead of maybe 6 vs "normal" teams. So the Crew simply playing an AL slate would maybe go from 95 to 98 wins. Then how many of their games do they win vs Baltimore?

[HiAndTight]

I'm not sure this team is 'equipped" to be the first World Series winner.....starting pitching or not.

 

Not with the Red Sox, Houston, A's, Indians or Yankees waiting.We would be big underdogs no matter who we would face.

 

I'm just hoping we can win the wild card game assuming that is where we end up. So much luck and randomness in baseball......1 game and we are out.

 

I didn't say the Brewers are the favorites, and there's nothing that says multiple teams can't be equipped to win it at the same time, I'm saying this Brewers team is built to win in the postseason, and to win the World Series. I stand by that.

 

 

Plus, you look at how daunting the AL looks, but it's not like we're gonna have to go through 3 of those teams on the way. Just one. And while all those teams great and it's been a historic year in the AL....stuff happens in a 7 game series. A great pen, a balanced lineup. I don't really even care. My standard as a fan is I want to be rooting for a playoff team....a team with a chance, OR a rebuilding team, one that's not stuck in sports purgatory. I've got that. Anything beyond that and it's really just gravy. Taking off today to watch game 163 with my Dad. Game 163 vs the Cubs for the title. I remember watching the Brewers at the end of the year vs the A's in '92 like it was yesterday. Wasn't born just yet in '82, but I've heard stories about how crazy it was.

 

 

That said, I WOULD put this team above that '92 team. I don't think you can really compare them with the 82 team or even a few teams before them. Those offenses were just so potent and you have a 10+ War SS and one of the greatest pure hitters atop your lineup..so even our biggest strength, Cain and Yelly(wanna feel like one of the guys there)….the 82 team has this one beat. But again, so what? That was one injury away from winning the WS.