Is this the best Brewer team?

[obobo55new]

Just curious for those if you who have endured being a Brewer fan for 40+ years...

 

This team will not finish with the best overall record. It doesn't have any of the household names like Robin and Molly. They aren't Bambi's Bombers.

 

On the other hand, this team is far better set up than our most recent playoff teams to enter with a real shot at the WS. I was just a 5 year old in '78 and 9 in '82. I don't recall those teams having a great pitching staff.

 

I really like the weapons this team has with mainstays Cain, Yelich, Aguilar, Braun, Shaw and the valuable additions of Moustakis, Granderson, Santana make this a very potent group. The starters are not going to give you 7, but are generally pretty effective in getting through 4 and the relief corp has been amazing.

 

I have more confidence in this team than any since '92. It is hard to compare to those late 70's-early 80's clubs, but might this be the best ever?

[StearnsFTW]

'82 easily in my opinion.

 

The '92 team was playing the best at the end of the season of any Brewer team I've ever seen, they just dug themselves too big of a hole and were chasing too good of a team.

[YelichPosse]

'82 easily in my opinion.

 

The '92 team was playing the best at the end of the season of any Brewer team I've ever seen, they just dug themselves too big of a hole and were chasing too good of a team.

 

 

I remember the 92 team, went to a couple games on that last homestand. They were hot but yea, just too far behind. This team feels like that team, but much closer.... I got a feeling!!!

[long ball]

My cognitive Brewers memory really starts in the early 2000s so I can't speak on anything before then, but I would say 2011 was better than this team.

 

The starting pitching was really good. Greinke, Marcum, Wolf, and Gallardo all had mid 3 ERAs w/ 28+ starts apiece.

 

Peak Braun and Fielder. A very good Corey Hart. Very good season and spark from Nyjer Morgan. Good season from Rickie. Hairston a spark down the stretch.

 

I think people also forget how good that bullpen was too. Axford, Saito, Hawkins, and Krod too.

 

96 wins and an NLCS appearance.

[StearnsFTW]

'82 easily in my opinion.

 

The '92 team was playing the best at the end of the season of any Brewer team I've ever seen, they just dug themselves too big of a hole and were chasing too good of a team.

 

 

I remember the 92 team, went to a couple games on that last homestand. They were hot but yea, just too far behind. This team feels like that team, but much closer.... I got a feeling!!!

 

Looking at the stats for that team is pretty funny. Amazing how much the game has changed in 25 years. Jamie Navarro, who was excellent, had 100 strikeouts. In 246 innings. The team struck out 793 batters in 1457 innings.

 

The team hit 82 HR (!) and stole 256 bases(!).

[YelichPosse]

'82 easily in my opinion.

 

The '92 team was playing the best at the end of the season of any Brewer team I've ever seen, they just dug themselves too big of a hole and were chasing too good of a team.

 

 

I remember the 92 team, went to a couple games on that last homestand. They were hot but yea, just too far behind. This team feels like that team, but much closer.... I got a feeling!!!

 

Looking at the stats for that team is pretty funny. Amazing how much the game has changed in 25 years. Jamie Navarro, who was excellent, had 100 strikeouts. In 246 innings. The team struck out 793 batters in 1457 innings.

 

The team hit 82 HR (!) and stole 256 bases(!).

 

Pat Listach was the spark plug... what an impact he had.... and the steals, yes, i recall that now... and as a young fan - it was really exciting! Cal Eldred's run that year was amazing too.

[obobo55new]

Listach was great but so was Hamilton in the 2 spot. Those two created so much havoc on the bases.

 

'11 was a great full year, but Marcum and Wolf were toast in Sept. It was going to have to be outscore the opponent or get crazy good pitching out of the pen to win.

[tmwiese55]

Yea I'd say 2011 was better than this on paper and even going into the postseason. Mostly due to the Greinke/Gallardo top of rotation along with a loaded offensive lineup. It's not like they backed in like in 2008 either.

 

Probably a good thread to ask this to some of the long timers alive to remember 82. Uecker said last night the Brewers had the better team in 82 than STL but had some guys hurt or unable to go in the WS. I don't recall what he was referring to, any care to share who was hurt for that Series or what he was referring to?

[TURBO]

That '82 line-up felt stacked, top to bottom, and we didn't have to endure the pitcher hitting.

 

Ahhhh, what could have been.

 

That being said. it was a different era, and this team for all the highs and lows has been pretty darn close imo.

 

Hard to look at that '82 team and think we could be better, but we could be better...lol

[TURBO]

Yea I'd say 2011 was better than this on paper and even going into the postseason. Mostly due to the Greinke/Gallardo top of rotation along with a loaded offensive lineup. It's not like they backed in like in 2008 either.

 

Probably a good thread to ask this to some of the long timers alive to remember 82. Uecker said last night the Brewers had the better team in 82 than STL but had some guys hurt or unable to go in the WS. I don't recall what he was referring to, any care to share who was hurt for that Series or what he was referring to?

 

Rollie Fingers was hurt and wasn't able to pitch in the World series. Had he been able to pitch in those high leverage situations, I still believe to this day we would have won the series. Still hurts to this day.

 

If I remember correctly, he was also unavailable for the ALCS...

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I think 2011 was loaded. That team had no weak points. They just ran into a loaded, blazing hot Cardinal offense. And I think the new, bullpen-heavy way of thinking may have helped the Crew in that series.

 

Carlos Gomez (my favorite all-time Brewer) scorching around third is the moment to which I compare all Brewers happiness.

 

I hope the 2018 team provides a new benchmark.

[TURBO]

I think 2011 was loaded. That team had no weak points. They just ran into a loaded, blazing hot Cardinal offense. And I think the new, bullpen-heavy way of thinking may have helped the Crew in that series.

 

Carlos Gomez (my favorite all-time Brewer) scorching around third is the moment to which I compare all Brewers happiness.

 

I hope the 2018 team provides a new benchmark.

 

That team had Mark Kotsay and Yuni B getting regular starts. I would call them both weak spots. Our manager even thought it was prudent to start Kotsay in center freaking field, which cost us dearly in the NLCS. Man, that still smarts.

 

This current team is better top to bottom, and so was that 82 team imo.

[tmwiese55]

Yea that's the weak spot in 2011. Why he started Kotsay with Morgan/Gomez IDK. But this team also has very weak hitting SS and C their holes. Plus not nearly the TOR starters of 2011. Also had a very good bullpen that year too. I see the argument of course, I'd just say the Greinke/Gallardo combo is enough to outweigh that Yuni B issue. Not old enough to comment on the 80s teams.

 

Thanks for Fingers info, surprised I didn't know that or had forgotten it.

[brewers4eric]

I've been a Brewer fan since 1978. My opinion on whether this is the best Brewer team comes down to whether you consider just the 25 man or the entire 40 man roster.

 

I do think this is the deepest 40 man team in the history of the franchise. I think we've had a huge advantage over our opponents since September 1 when the rosters expanded. The perceived lack of quality depth within the rotation has been alleviated by the number of options available in the bullpen each night. Additionally, our infield and outfield depth is stacked on the bench.

 

I loved the 1992 version of the team. The rotation was solid after Cal Eldred was promoted and Garner was good at finding the right spots for the arms in the bullpen. Darren Holmes was one of my favorites and they should have never left him unprotected in the expansion draft. I won't comment on the Bichette for Kevin Reimer trade, which is one of the worst in the history of the Brewers.

[Baldkin]

Yea I'd say 2011 was better than this on paper and even going into the postseason. Mostly due to the Greinke/Gallardo top of rotation along with a loaded offensive lineup. It's not like they backed in like in 2008 either.

 

Probably a good thread to ask this to some of the long timers alive to remember 82. Uecker said last night the Brewers had the better team in 82 than STL but had some guys hurt or unable to go in the WS. I don't recall what he was referring to, any care to share who was hurt for that Series or what he was referring to?

 

Rollie Fingers was hurt and wasn't able to pitch in the World series. Had he been able to pitch in those high leverage situations, I still believe to this day we would have won the series. Still hurts to this day.

 

If I remember correctly, he was also unavailable for the ALCS...

 

Yeah, he was definitely referring to Fingers. The Brewers were up 4-2 in game 2 and 3-1 in game 7.

[Roderick]

Yea I'd say 2011 was better than this on paper and even going into the postseason. Mostly due to the Greinke/Gallardo top of rotation along with a loaded offensive lineup. It's not like they backed in like in 2008 either.

 

Probably a good thread to ask this to some of the long timers alive to remember 82. Uecker said last night the Brewers had the better team in 82 than STL but had some guys hurt or unable to go in the WS. I don't recall what he was referring to, any care to share who was hurt for that Series or what he was referring to?

 

Rollie Fingers was hurt and wasn't able to pitch in the World series. Had he been able to pitch in those high leverage situations, I still believe to this day we would have won the series. Still hurts to this day.

 

If I remember correctly, he was also unavailable for the ALCS...

 

I am one of the old guys that remembers 1982 (darn Andujar). With Rollie, I think 1982 best. If you want to say because Rollie was hurt, the 2011 team was the best team going into the playoffs - I would agree with that.

 

Even with Marcum laboring as the season closed out. Too bad Roenicke couldn't figure that out. Hindsight 20/20, but I suppose Narveson, Estrada, Wolf weren't much better options. Just seems to me, I would have tried a bullpen game before rolling Marcum out there for a second start.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

True enough on Yuni B and Kotsay (though if we are talking roster strength overall, the decision to start him doesn't seem as relevant), but Yuni produced some big runs in the playoffs, and I still would take Gomez, Yuni B, and Lucroy over the current bottom of the order. It is close, for sure, but that is me.

 

Offense better in 2011. Starting pitching better in 2011. Bullpen better in 2018. Defense pretty dependent on lineups. Probably give the edge to 2018. Again, close call. I think both teams are equally fun FWIW, and I am probably enjoying this group a bit more!

[MrTPlush]

In my lifetime...2011 and not even close. That 2011 team would have absolutely dominated the NL this year. That team probably wins 100+ this year.

[obobo55new]

Just a quick comparison of '82 and '18 using OPS+ & ERA+

 

Yount 166....Yelich 157

Cooper 142... Aguilar 136

Thomas 137...Cain 122

Molly 129.......Shaw 119

Ogilvie 118....Moustakis 107

Simmons 112...Braun 103

 

Sutton 116...Miley 177

Vuckovich 114...Chacin 113

 

Fingers 147...Jeffress 304

Slaton 116...Hader 178

......................Burnes 159

[owbc]

From the post-Yount era:

 

The 2011 team was too top-heavy (both offense and pitching) and not built for winning in October. Great regular season team but never a true World Series contender. They also played quite poorly in the first half of the season before getting insanely hot in late July/August.

 

The 2018 team will have a better postseason roster than 2011. 2018 also has a huge managing advantage. The 2011 team also played in an easier division but won 96 games which is impressive.

 

I'll call it a wash at this point.

[sveumrules]

All numbers per FanGraphs...

 

1982 Brewers

Offense: +147.6 runs (1st)

Defense: -4.5 runs (15th)

Starters: 9.1 FIP based WAR (19th) 8.1 runs allowed based WAR (15th)

Relievers: 2.1 FIP based WAR (16th) 3.9 runs allowed based WAR (17th)

 

2011 Brewers

Offense (no pitchers): +53.1 runs (7th)

Defense: +43.4 runs (6th)

Starters: 15.7 FIP based WAR (6th) 12.8 runs allowed based WAR (13th)

Relievers: 5.4 FIP based WAR (5th) 4.4 runs allowed based WAR (12th)

 

2018 Brewers (so far)

Offense (no pitchers): +34.4 runs (12th)

Defense: +58.5 runs (2nd)

Starters: 8.9 FIP based WAR (17th) 11.6 runs allowed based WAR (15th)

Relievers: 6.5 FIP based WAR (4th) 7.2 runs allowed based WAR (6th)

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm partial to the 79 team that won 95 games. Top to bottom, that was the best everyday lineup and unlike this year's team which made significant additions at the deadline, every key contributor was there all season.

[MrTPlush]

From the post-Yount era:

 

The 2011 team was too top-heavy (both offense and pitching) and not built for winning in October. Great regular season team but never a true World Series contender. They also played quite poorly in the first half of the season before getting insanely hot in late July/August.

 

Their pitching was anything but top heavy and they weren't that poor in the first half.

[tmwiese55]

I've seen that phrasing before regarding 2011 not being a real WS contender. They had a 1-0 lead with home field advantage in the NLCS and home field in the WS. That in itself seems like a WS contender to me. They were the Vegas favorite with 4 teams left.

[Patrick425]

Starting following at around age 10 or 11, so about 1976 or 1977. I think because of my age at the time and how many games I went to with friends, including the 82 playoffs and WS, I'm biased to remember those teams more fondly than any of the more recent successful Brewer teams. It was such a huge part of my life at the time. No responsibilities and trappings of adulthood. All I had to do was enjoy baseball. Most games were not televised, so spent many hours in my room listening to Uecker and Merle Harmon on the radio. It would be easy for me to say that the 82 team was the best, but all those teams from 78-82 were really good. Under today's playoff format, I think all of them would have made the playoffs. Also really liked team streak from 1987.

 

However, because the two guys at the top of the current lineup remind me of those days of watching Molitor and Yount at the top, I think this I enjoy this team more than any of the teams since that late 70's early 80's period.

 

I don't know that anyone can definitively say what year was the best Brewer team, but the 82 team will always be my favorite Brewer team.