2018-09-24: Brewers (Bullpen) at Cardinals (Flaherty) 7:15 PM CDT [Brewers win, 6-4 -- Lots of drama & a clutch W!]

[Lathund]

Anderson hasn't been that bad this month. 4 starts, 3.06 ERA, 1.36 WHIP. The biggest criticism of him has been the home runs, but in those 4 starts the HR/9 is only 1.02 which is a reasonable number.

 

To me the key thing is that, in those 4 starts, he's only pitched 17 2/3 innings and has only averaged 73 pitches per start. To me that's the biggest thing here, it sure seems like Counsell has lost confidence in him and no longer trusts him. August was a bad month for Anderson and he got himself on the short hook despite pitching better recently.

 

Can't maintain a 3.06 ERA very long with a 1.36 WHIP. That WHIP would rate 58th our of 63 qualified starters. The 5 pitchers with a worse WHIP range from 4.26 ERA (Gio Gonzalez) to 5.81 ERA (Lucas Giolito).

[NYChez]

Biggest series in 7 years: let’s start the game with our 14th best pitcher!

[tmwiese55]

Biggest series in 7 years: let’s start the game with our 14th best pitcher!

 

Well I think I'd have rather done a bullpen game in the 2011 playoffs than keep trotting Marcum out there to get toasted each time just because that's the way it's always been in baseball. The team that beat us that year went unconventional pulling their starter early every game.

[FVBrewerFan]

I probably should have phrased my original speculation differently. What I was getting at is that the idea of not starting Anderson tonight and rather going with a bullpen game likely originated with the front office/analytics staff and Counsell was on board.

 

Yea, no need to parse words I thought you were right the first time. No question CC is involved in these discussions every day, but I would be shocked if this idea didn't originate from the front office.

[Roderick]

Biggest series in 7 years: let’s start the game with our 14th best pitcher!

 

Well I think I'd have rather done a bullpen game in the 2011 playoffs than keep trotting Marcum out there to get toasted each time just because that's the way it's always been in baseball. The team that beat us that year went unconventional pulling their starter early every game.

 

Exactly. I hope we change the reliever 10 times this game. It will still feel like less times than the Cardinals did it in the playoffs against us.

[KeithStone53151]

Couple thoughts on this bullpen game:

 

-This almost certainly wasn't Counsell's decision. This is certainly coming from the front office and Counsell will do his best to manage the game.

 

-Wouldn't surprise me if Jennings is pulled once he faces Carpenter. The only other lefty who will likely be in the line up for the Cards is Kolten Wong. Solid hitter, but likely batting near the bottom of the order. Cards might move Carpenter down in the line up a little (3rd or 4th) so that Jennings has to face a couple right handed batters.

 

-I'm interested to see if Anderson pitches at all in this game.

 

-This feels like the most difficult game of the series since Flaherty is starting for the Cards. He's dominated the Brewers this season and been very good overall.

 

-I wonder if they're "blueprinting" a way to beat the cards in a theoretical WC game and testing out their theory.

 

Carpenter has been the leadoff hitter for the Cards all year. If CC can convince the Cardinals to adjust their normal lineup via this bullpen game, that's an excellent start to the game before a pitch is even thrown.

 

I'm also not convinced that this wasn't CC's decision. Maybe he made the decision to give Chase extra rest. I wouldn't be surprised if Chase pitches the first game of the Detroit series. He is generally better with extra rest. I also think if he's put in a position where he knows he's only going 3-4 innings...he might let loose a bit more and be in the 94-95 range versus 91-93, which would be huge.

[lowblow]

I think that is a great explanation of the situation for the Brewers.

[adambr2]

I think Stearns and Counsell are both on the same page on decisions like this. Something like batting the pitcher 8th on a particular day if Counsell wanted to try it, I doubt Stearns is getting involved too much.

 

Something fairly big like this I doubt happens without a conversation between the two where they are both in agreement that it's a good thing to try.

[82brewcrew82]

I probably should have phrased my original speculation differently. What I was getting at is that the idea of not starting Anderson tonight and rather going with a bullpen game likely originated with the front office/analytics staff and Counsell was on board.

 

Yea, no need to parse words I thought you were right the first time. No question CC is involved in these discussions every day, but I would be shocked if this idea didn't originate from the front office.

The original post ("This almost certainly wasn't Counsell's decision.") made it seem like the poster was saying that this was an edict from on high that this happen. I do agree that the analytics folks thought it up and brought it forward. That is what they get paid to do but in the end, this was absolutely CC's decision. I doubt there was much debate because CC is on board with the analytical approach or, as noted, he wouldn't be here.

[82brewcrew82]

I think Stearns and Counsell are both on the same page on decisions like this. Something like batting the pitcher 8th on a particular day if Counsell wanted to try it, I doubt Stearns is getting involved too much.

 

Something fairly big like this I doubt happens without a conversation between the two where they are both in agreement that it's a good thing to try.

Perfect.

[FVBrewerFan]

I think Stearns and Counsell are both on the same page on decisions like this. Something like batting the pitcher 8th on a particular day if Counsell wanted to try it, I doubt Stearns is getting involved too much.

 

Something fairly big like this I doubt happens without a conversation between the two where they are both in agreement that it's a good thing to try.

Perfect.

 

 

I believe this is why Thames isn't the leadoff hitter anymore. CC told Stearns it's something they wanted to try. But after doing it a few times, the analytics team put it to the test and the computers literally cried. IT Dept said they've never seen anything like it.

[adambr2]

Want to get totally nuts?

 

Start Taylor Williams as your RF and bat him and Jennings 8th/9th. Flip/flop them every time the matchup changes. Go 2 innings with them if their spots don't come up in the 2nd.

[bill hAll Star]

I think Stearns and Counsell are both on the same page on decisions like this. Something like batting the pitcher 8th on a particular day if Counsell wanted to try it, I doubt Stearns is getting involved too much.

 

Something fairly big like this I doubt happens without a conversation between the two where they are both in agreement that it's a good thing to try.

Perfect.

 

 

I believe this is why Thames isn't the leadoff hitter anymore. CC told Stearns it's something they wanted to try. But after doing it a few times, the analytics team put it to the test and the computers literally cried. IT Dept said they've never seen anything like it.

 

I'm not sure that I'm missing a joke, but there are lots of Thames-esque guys that have led off around the majors the last few years and I'd assume the idea came from Stearns. Thames falling off a cliff has caused it to become a stupid idea, but when he had a .360 OBP and you got him to see more fastballs it was not a bad idea.

[wibadgers23]

Four pages in already and we're still four hours from game time. Must be a big game or something.

[dlk9s]

Four pages in already and we're still four hours from game time. Must be a big game or something.

 

I just assumed we were already losing.

[tmwiese55]

Four pages in already and we're still four hours from game time. Must be a big game or something.

 

I just assumed we were already losing.

 

I can't imagine what will happen on here if they give up like 3 runs the first two innings with this strategy.

[adamds22]

Wouldn't you think if they were going to start Jennings and follow up with Anderson that they would want to get through the pitchers spot? I don't see a lineup yet for us but will be interesting/telling how that shapes up.

 

My guess is if the P spot is still #9 that we'd be hoping Jennings gets through 2 innings where you could pinch hit for him in the top of the 3rd?

[tmwiese55]

Wouldn't you think if they were going to start Jennings and follow up with Anderson that they would want to get through the pitchers spot? I don't see a lineup yet for us but will be interesting/telling how that shapes up.

 

My guess is if the P spot is still #9 that we'd be hoping Jennings gets through 2 innings where you could pinch hit for him in the top of the 3rd?

 

That's likely the role of the next guy after Jennings. My guess anyway. Think of like this, what's the difference if Jennings goes for 1 batter now or in the 7th. Pure guess of course, but I'd think the 'extended' guy will be 3rd up if things go according to plan in some kind of normal 1-0 type game in the first few innings. Jennings to start, someone like Williams after for some righties, then we bat and use the P spot. then an extended 2-3 inning guy like Woodruff. We'll see, interesting stuff

[adamds22]

Or if they follow up with someone else my guess is they don't plan on pitching either pitcher more than 1 inning each for the first two.

[josh]

Starting Jennings dares STL to change their lineup to deal with a lefty. Meanwhile, the Brewers still have multiple lefties for situational relief later on. Like it. Tentatively. I'm intrigued, more than anything.

[clancyphile]

Starting Jennings dares STL to change their lineup to deal with a lefty. Meanwhile, the Brewers still have multiple lefties for situational relief later on. Like it. Tentatively. I'm intrigued, more than anything.

 

It's worth a shot...

 

Anything to psych out the Redbirds.

 

BTW, can we just get a Moose-Schoop-Shaw-Aguilar infield tonight? Lots of power to club Cardinals pitchers like baby seals...

[long ball]

Starting Jennings dares STL to change their lineup to deal with a lefty. Meanwhile, the Brewers still have multiple lefties for situational relief later on. Like it. Tentatively. I'm intrigued, more than anything.

 

It's worth a shot...

 

Anything to psych out the Redbirds.

 

BTW, can we just get a Moose-Schoop-Shaw-Aguilar infield tonight? Lots of power to club Cardinals pitchers like baby seals...

 

I don't know how the Brewers plan to attack this game after Jennings, but if they run out a bunch of their relievers it's probably best to go with Arcia at SS.

 

JJ, Barnes, Burnes, Woodruff, Cedeno, and Knebel all have strong ground ball numbers.

[josh]

Yeah, my sense is they're more willing to sacrifice infield defense when there's a flyball or strikeout pitcher on the mound. If they're cycling through pitchers, they wouldn't have that. At least not consistently.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

The front office acquires players. If you think anyone but Counsell is picking pitchers, with input from the other coaches...you're wrong.

 

If you don't think Counsell and Stearns sit down and talk about strategies like that which we're seeing today, I can tell you unequivocally that you are mistaken. Stearns 100%, zero doubt, had input in this.

 

The only speculation is to who approached who with the idea.

[wallus]

Want to get totally nuts?

 

Start Taylor Williams as your RF and bat him and Jennings 8th/9th. Flip/flop them every time the matchup changes. Go 2 innings with them if their spots don't come up in the 2nd.

 

Or have them catch when no one is on base? You're welcome Clancy.