Wade Townsend

[colbyjack]

Earlier this month/late last month Wade Townsend, one of the talented RHPs from Rice who was taken 8th overall by the Orioles, decided to head back to school yet he renounced his college athletic eligibility, hoping it would allow him to continue to negotiate with the O's. Other players have renounced their NCAA eligibility, in essence turning pro doing so, but done have returned to school after doing so. MLB has turned Townsend's request down, and therefore (for now) he cannot continue to negotiate with the Orioles, and if the ruling stays as is, he will be forced to re-enter the 2005 draft, and likely will play pro ball in some Independent League next spring.

 

www.baseballamerica.com/t...nsend.html

 

On top of that, it's interesting that so many first-round picks haven't signed. I heard much earlier this summer that it would take a while to see many of the college arms finally ink with their respective drafting teams (the commissioner's office encouraged teams to sign their later round picks first, basically in an attempt to make some of these players sweat it out & take the pre-determined slot value amounts), but I didn't think it would continue into October. Justin Verlander (2nd overall), Phillip Humber (3rd), Jeff Niemann (4th), Jered Weaver (12th) and Stephen Drew (15th, not a college arm of course) all remain unsigned.

[JoeHova]

I don't understand why MLB won't let him work towards his degree instead of making him waste time waiting fot the O's to sign him.

[colbyjack]

MLB doesn't have a problem with Townsend returning to school, which he already has, they're just not letting him negotiate with the Orioles anymore.

[jwaltz]

I wonder where he will go next year? He could help himself by pitching well in an indy league. Maybe we could still take him next year.

[Al the Thinking Man]

*cough*

Matt Harrington

*cough*

 

The day I turn down a couple million dollars in hopes of getting a hundred grand more, someone please shoot me in the head.

[JoeHova]

MLB doesn't have a problem with Townsend returning to school, which he already has, they're just not letting him negotiate with the Orioles anymore.

 

 

to me that does say they have a problem with it. MLB is basically saying a guy has to sit in limbo until a team signs him. That gives the team a lot of bargaining power, in my opinion. Why shouldn't a guy be allowed to try to finish up his degree while he waits for a team to make him a competitive offer? Why should he have to waste a semester when he could be getting some credits? It makes very little sense to me because if the Orioles never make him an offer he is comforatable with, he will have wasted a whole school year where he could have been completing his degree. They would basically be making the kid waste a year of his life, not being able to either go to school or play ball (unless you count indy leagues, which are a risk).

[madbad2000]

Joe,

 

He doesn't have to waste a semester if he doesn't want to. If the Orioles are low balling him then go back to school when the semester starts and get drafted again next June as a senior. If school is the most important thing then go back. Basically he wanted to wait out the O's so that they can give him more than what the Orioles felt he was worth. Can't have your cake and eat it too in this situation.

[filthyfrog]

I have to agree with Joe on this one. If Wade was sitting on his couch eating Cheetos all day he could continue negotiating with the Os, but since he decides to use his free time to better himself, they can no longer work together? That doesn't make sense to me. It would make sense if he hadn't renounced his college eligibility, but this appears to be going against the intent of the rule. The rule is there to make players decide between college baseball and pro baseball, not college classes and pro baseball.

[lend d money]

These kids get too damn much money as it is. Hopefully, with the next MLB CBA, the major league guys will step up and make an issue of the bonuses that are stealing money away from the guys who are actually in the major leagues. Someone within the union needs to make a stand like the guys in the NBA did when they realized the unproven were stealing from the pockets of the veterans. Think of all of our wasted bonus money lately(Gold, Neugebauer, Carter, Murray, Carpenter, etc). This is mostly on guys who didn't get beyond class A!! Like Al said, this has all the makings of a Matt Harrington situation. If he wants to roll the dice for a few extra hundred thousand dollars, lose time developing and time value of money, all power to him. It's his decision, he knew the risk involved, the NCAA understandably wants to avoid a situation where people declare and return and now he must live with those circumstances. I just hope he isn't majoring in financial management.

[Katuluu]

He could have gone back to classes all he liked if he had signed a contract. It's a negotiating ploy plain and simple.

[colbyjack]

He could have gone back to classes all he liked if he had signed a contract. It's a negotiating ploy plain and simple.

 

Exactly. I can't feel sorry for the player. He was trying to do something no one else had done before to increase his leverage while going back to school and it backfired on him, for now at least. I'm sure his advisor played into the decision, and similar to some of the advice Matt Harrington received, it may turn out to be an extremely unwise move.

 

I admire the fact that he went back to school, and it's important to remember that this may not be over. As his advisor stated, they plan on taking this issue to court. However, this is a move by MLB to make sure there is more power in the hands of the teams than the players when it comes to handing out bonuses, as it should be. Unfortunately some players have to be made into an example so others know they can't pull the same schenanigans.

 

There has been an idea floating out there for a few years now to institute a draft rule that all draftees have to sign by August 15th or so. I think it is a great idea, as it would end these long and tiresome negotiations between draftee & team. If a player doesn't sign by that time, they go back into the next year's draft pool, plain & simple.

[filthyfrog]

It's a negotiating ploy plain and simple.

 

The negotiating ploy is simply that he's waiting instead of signing. Several other players are doing the same thing. What he does during that waiting period, as long as it doesn't involve baseball, shouldn't matter to MLB or the Orioles. Attending classes doesn't give him leverage; only waiting does. To penalize Townsend (and the Os) and not Verlander, Humber and the rest seems silly to me when the only difference is that Wade is doing taking classes while the others are not.

 

There has been an idea floating out there for a few years now to institute a draft rule that all draftees have to sign by August 15th or so.

 

Now that would be a fine idea. This situation would never arise again. But I still think it's crazy to penalize someone for taking classes. What if he had gotten a temp job at a software firm, and they offered a two week training course? Should he lose his right to negotiate simply because he's learning something or trying to make a little dough? The job would have nothing to do with baseball, just like college once you've renounced your eligibility.

[DHonks]

first off, I don't agree with the decision. But what I hope is that the Crew doesn't consider him an option next year. I really can't stand the mechanics he showed in the scouting video. Really makes me think he'll never see the big leagues

[jwaltz]

Quote:

---

sitting on his couch eating Cheetos all day

---

 

Don't bring Cheetos into this...

[jwaltz]

Following this semester would Townsend be able to start negotiating with the O's? Say in December after finals? I doubt MLB would allow it but they might.

 

edit: I have to side with Patrick on this. It's his own damn fault for getting himself into this mess to begin with. If he wanted to go back to school why do it now? Why risk costing himself a lot of money? It just isn't worth risking that kind of money.

[madbad2000]

It's a simple question...does he want to be a student or does he want to be a professional baseball player? If you don't get the deal from the O's to your liking then go back to school and go into the draft the following year. With the amount of money he's looking at securing taking a couple of credits to work towards that degree is a weak, weak argument...bargaining ploy is all it is.

[filthyfrog]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this. Can someone seriously explain to me the difference between what Townsend is doing and what Verlander, Humber, Weaver, and Drew are doing? As far as I can tell, they're all trying to improve their bargaining position by making their teams wait it out. At the same time, the teams are trying to improve their bargaining position by making the players wait it out. Now I agree with everyone here that Townsend should have taken the millions of dollars I'm sure he was offered. I would say the same about Verlander, Humber, and the rest. But the only difference between Townsend and the rest is that Townsend wanted to finish up his degree during the lengthy negotiation process. Why is that bad? If he needed to work a part time job to pay the bills until he gets signed, would we be asking "It's a simple question... does he want to be a part time employee or does he want to be a professional baseball player?"

 

I just seriously don't understand what his efforts to graduate should have to do with his eligibility. I don't see how it improves his bargaining position any differently than the others who are waiting it out. He made it clear that he wanted to continue negotiating. He made it clear that he wanted to choose professional baseball instead of collegiate baseball.

 

If someone can explain why attending classes is a bargaining ploy that's any different from the waiting game that several draftees are playing, then maybe I'll be able to understand your viewpoint. But right now, I truly believe the MLB is making a mistake by enforcing a rule that was designed to make players choose between professional baseball and college baseball, not signing a contract and taking classes.

[colbyjack]

I don't think anyone is saying what Townsend is doing is bad, it's just that it wasn't very smart if money is what is on his mind. I don't necessarily agree with the ruling either, but Townsend should have done his homework or asked the commissioner's office about his eligibility before he went ahead and went back to class.

 

Basically, if he stalled and used this move looking for more money it may come back & blow-up in his face. Coming out next year as a college senior, while likely not pitching nearly as much as he could if he wouldn't have renounced his college eligibility, he's not going to get anywhere near what he was offered by the Orioles.

 

And going back to school assuming you can continue to negotiate does increase his bargaining power. He's basically telling the Orioles that he has other things he can do, and obviously he doesn't need the money bad enough to pay off his tuition right now, especially at an institution like Rice. So, he can wait it out just as much as the O's can.

[filthyfrog]

And going back to school assuming you can continue to negotiate does increase his bargaining power. He's basically telling the Orioles that he has other things he can do

 

That may be true if he were trying to send the message that he could choose not to play pro baseball altogether, but I don't think he ever tried to do that. By renouncing his eligibility he was essentially saying "I want to sign with the Orioles, but while I'm waiting I'd like to continue my education." I don't think he ever tried to say "By obtaining a degree I may choose to enter the business world and drop baseball altogether, so if you Orioles really want me, you better ante up."

 

Hey, I just thought of a good question. If the Orioles are unable to sign Townsend, what implications does that have for next year's draft? Do they get a supplemental? That could apply to some of the several other teams still waiting, too.

[colbyjack]

By renouncing his eligibility he was essentially saying "I want to sign with the Orioles, but while I'm waiting I'd like to continue my education." I don't think he ever tried to say "By obtaining a degree I may choose to enter the business world and drop baseball altogether, so if you Orioles really want me, you better ante up."

 

He is still using school as a negotiating chip, even though he actually attended classes expecting to continue to negotiate. I'm not saying he's using an alternate career to negotiate, I'm just saying that school is and always has been one of the biggest, if not the biggest negotiating chip any player can use. And I've said all along that I admire his desire to continue with his education, and that's not anything new with Townsend, who has always been academically driven.

 

I don't think we're that far apart frog. The bottom line is that Townsend thought he could do something no other player has, and it may come back to burn him, regardless of his intentions. Whether or not you agree with the ruling, it really has nothing to do with his desire for an education or how much he was trying to increase his negotiating power. If he truly expected to continue to negotiate with the Orioles he should have consulted MLB first. Then, if he still wanted to go to school he would have made the choice knowing the consequences. Instead, it seems as though he decided to rely on the advice of his advisor, which is exactly how Matt Harrington got burned.

 

And yes, if the Orioles are unable to sign Townsend they would receive a supplemental pick after the first round, and the same is true for any team that is unable to sign their first-round pick(s).

[filthyfrog]

If he truly expected to continue to negotiate with the Orioles he should have consulted MLB first.

 

Yes, I fully agree with this, colby. You're right that we're not that far apart. I just think the MLB should reverse its ruling since attending class has nothing to do with baseball. I think college has always been a huge bargaining chip because you can play baseball there. When you take the baseball out of it, I think it loses its leverage.

[BMuch]

Is there a slippery slope involved here? Could Townsend waive his baseball eligibility in the fall, but then petition with the NCAA to have it reinstated before next spring semester/baseball season?

 

Colby (or anyone else), why is it that a player can continue to negotiate while in JC, but not while attending regular college?

[colbyjack]

Could Townsend waive his baseball eligibility in the fall, but then petition with the NCAA to have it reinstated before next spring semester/baseball season?

 

Once a player renounces his eligibility I'm pretty sure he gives it up for good. There really isn't a good example to point to other than what happened to Mike Willliams & Maurice Clarett last spring, and I'm not so sure that's an accurate comparison.

 

But I would expect Townsend to fight to have his eligibility re-instated if MLB sticks by it's decision. It will be interesting to see how all of this turns out, although I think there is still a good chance that the courts overrule MLBs initial ruling.

 

why is it that a player can continue to negotiate while in JC, but not while attending regular college?

 

That's all part of the draft & follow rules. No player can continue to negotiate with their drafting team if they attend or return to a full 4-year institution.

[jwaltz]

If he wanted to go back to school and get his degree he should have done what Prior did. Sign a 2005 contract and attend school in the fall and maybe the spring semester. If I remember Prior signed a deal for the following season and then went back to school for the fall semester.

[deeswan]

Colby (or anyone else), why is it that a player can continue to negotiate while in JC, but not while attending regular college?

 

To me it's kind of a two-fold answer. 1. It allows the professional teams (which is who MLB looks out for, and should) to have some leverage by saying that a kid who goes back to school basically has to go until after his junior year.

2. It allows 4 year schools a breather with recruiting. They have to compete against pro baseball already, this allows them to not have to compete as much on a year-to-year basis. For JC's, they are only two-year institutions, they have to recruit heavily all the time anyway, it does not affect them nearly as much.